BoxRec

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑16 Dec 2020, 03:33 well, it makes sense that most of the top pros wouldve been top ams too, though obviously there are exceptions, especially the lower down in weight you go

mickey1975 wrote: ↑16 Dec 2020, 03:57 You’d be surprised how many journeymen have good backgrounds, and how many unbeaten kids don’t. They’re very good at selling tickets though.

mickey1975 wrote: ↑16 Dec 2020, 03:57 You’d be surprised how many journeymen have good backgrounds, and how many unbeaten kids don’t. They’re very good at selling tickets though.

Coco wrote: ↑16 Dec 2020, 07:09

mickey1975 wrote: ↑16 Dec 2020, 03:57 You’d be surprised how many journeymen have good backgrounds, and how many unbeaten kids don’t. They’re very good at selling tickets though.

The unbeaten kids aren't going anywhere though.

I remember sitting in many an away changing room and the conversations always were about our opponents.

You would always be more uneasy if someone said yeah he was a good amateur or yeah this kid can fight..

It was always a relief if someone was a ticket seller.

Jimmy2020 wrote: ↑16 Dec 2020, 04:28 Always been that way. There are few exceptions and they are usually Central and South Americans who turn pro at 15 and do their learning in the pros. Loads of eggs thrown against the wall in that part of the world, hence why the ones that stick are so good.

SticknMove wrote: ↑16 Dec 2020, 21:44

Jimmy2020 wrote: ↑16 Dec 2020, 04:28 Always been that way. There are few exceptions and they are usually Central and South Americans who turn pro at 15 and do their learning in the pros. Loads of eggs thrown against the wall in that part of the world, hence why the ones that stick are so good.

Very true.

Battle hardened at a young age with so much depth. Only the toughest and savvy get through to challenge at any sort of World level let alone elite.

The pros and ams are 'almost' two different sports.

mickey1975 wrote: ↑17 Dec 2020, 00:13

SticknMove wrote: ↑16 Dec 2020, 21:44

Jimmy2020 wrote: ↑16 Dec 2020, 04:28 Always been that way. There are few exceptions and they are usually Central and South Americans who turn pro at 15 and do their learning in the pros. Loads of eggs thrown against the wall in that part of the world, hence why the ones that stick are so good.

Very true.

Battle hardened at a young age with so much depth. Only the toughest and savvy get through to challenge at any sort of World level let alone elite.

The pros and ams are 'almost' two different sports.

They’re not anymore. Since the headguards came off it’s exactly the same. Scoring and fighting styles have changed. At a reasonable level it’s 3x3’s.

bennie wrote: ↑17 Dec 2020, 06:28 In my time, Errol Christie must be the most famous domestic amateur who turned over and didn't make it, although I happen to believe his war with Mark Kaylor, after a run of pathetically easy wins, took everything out of him. Billy Knight was another head-scratcher, along with Andrew Straughn. Both won three ABA light-heavyweight titles and went to an Olympics but ultimately disappointed in the money ranks, although Straughn did at least win a British title. Knight openly regretted turning over.
George Collins and Jimmy Batten had brilliant schoolboy and junior careers but turned over young and failed to live up to their amateur billing. It didn't help Batten that he was thrown in with Gilbert Cohen for the European light-middleweight title just a couple of months after a gut-wrenching war with Tony Poole. Big Adrian Elliott won two ABA titles but bombed as a pro, even with Terry Lawless wrapping him in cotton wool. Big-hitting Scot Tom Imrie also won two ABA titles and gold at the 1970 Commonwealth Games in Edinburgh but didn't make it thereafter. Mark Ramsey won two ABA crowns and went the distance with Kostya Tszyu in the 1989 world championships but developed into a pro journeyman. Brixton's Tony Adams destroyed the great George Gilbody in 40 seconds in the ABAs but never caught on as a pro. Peter Jones, younger brother of Colin, destroyed Ray Gilbody in three rounds in the ABAs but boxed only a handful of times as a pro. Billy Walker famously flattened the giant American Cornelius Perry at Wembley in 1961 but never won a pro title, although he proved a phenomenal draw.
Battersea's Devon Bailey won five London ABA titles, including a win over Dennis Andries, but Andries knocked him out in 12 rounds in a British title rematch in 1984. Johnny Cheshire, Colin Derrick, Paul "Spider" Kelly and Dave Kenny were all brilliant amateurs who squandered their talent in the pros, although Kenny proved horribly cut-prone. Cameron Lithgow boxed 21 times for England and did zilch as a pro. Frankie Lucas won two ABA titles and licked Alan Minter in the unpaid ranks but never won anything as a pro. John Mugabi won destructive silver at the 1980 Olympics (losing to the brilliant Cuban Andres Aldama in the final) and should have achieved more as a pro. Michael Carruth won gold, of course, but really disappointed without the vest and needed to drop down a weight, in my opinion. Islington's Patrick "Blue Boy" Gallagher beat Billy Schwer to win the 1990 ABA lightweight title but fought the law too many times to make it as a pro...


P.S. Does anyone remember Al Styles? He was an American airman stationed over here in the late 1970s who claimed a decent amateur record and linked up with the Kingston club in London and looked brilliant in his contests. He was quickly selected to represent London against New York in 1978 and stopped David Sears, who later challenged Mike Spinks for the world light-heavyweight title. Then somebody tipped off the ABA. Styles was actually a quality pro who had been the full 10 rounds with Mike Rossman.

bennie wrote: ↑17 Dec 2020, 06:28 In my time, Errol Christie must be the most famous domestic amateur who turned over and didn't make it....

danconnollyeire wrote: ↑20 Dec 2020, 19:41 It’s not really anything new. Ali, Frazier, Foreman were all gold medalists. Mayweather, Jones Jr were Olympians too. On the other hand, Canelo wasn’t

Coco wrote: ↑17 Dec 2020, 15:06

bennie wrote: ↑17 Dec 2020, 06:28 In my time, Errol Christie must be the most famous domestic amateur who turned over and didn't make it, although I happen to believe his war with Mark Kaylor, after a run of pathetically easy wins, took everything out of him. Billy Knight was another head-scratcher, along with Andrew Straughn. Both won three ABA light-heavyweight titles and went to an Olympics but ultimately disappointed in the money ranks, although Straughn did at least win a British title. Knight openly regretted turning over.
George Collins and Jimmy Batten had brilliant schoolboy and junior careers but turned over young and failed to live up to their amateur billing. It didn't help Batten that he was thrown in with Gilbert Cohen for the European light-middleweight title just a couple of months after a gut-wrenching war with Tony Poole. Big Adrian Elliott won two ABA titles but bombed as a pro, even with Terry Lawless wrapping him in cotton wool. Big-hitting Scot Tom Imrie also won two ABA titles and gold at the 1970 Commonwealth Games in Edinburgh but didn't make it thereafter. Mark Ramsey won two ABA crowns and went the distance with Kostya Tszyu in the 1989 world championships but developed into a pro journeyman. Brixton's Tony Adams destroyed the great George Gilbody in 40 seconds in the ABAs but never caught on as a pro. Peter Jones, younger brother of Colin, destroyed Ray Gilbody in three rounds in the ABAs but boxed only a handful of times as a pro. Billy Walker famously flattened the giant American Cornelius Perry at Wembley in 1961 but never won a pro title, although he proved a phenomenal draw.
Battersea's Devon Bailey won five London ABA titles, including a win over Dennis Andries, but Andries knocked him out in 12 rounds in a British title rematch in 1984. Johnny Cheshire, Colin Derrick, Paul "Spider" Kelly and Dave Kenny were all brilliant amateurs who squandered their talent in the pros, although Kenny proved horribly cut-prone. Cameron Lithgow boxed 21 times for England and did zilch as a pro. Frankie Lucas won two ABA titles and licked Alan Minter in the unpaid ranks but never won anything as a pro. John Mugabi won destructive silver at the 1980 Olympics (losing to the brilliant Cuban Andres Aldama in the final) and should have achieved more as a pro. Michael Carruth won gold, of course, but really disappointed without the vest and needed to drop down a weight, in my opinion. Islington's Patrick "Blue Boy" Gallagher beat Billy Schwer to win the 1990 ABA lightweight title but fought the law too many times to make it as a pro...


P.S. Does anyone remember Al Styles? He was an American airman stationed over here in the late 1970s who claimed a decent amateur record and linked up with the Kingston club in London and looked brilliant in his contests. He was quickly selected to represent London against New York in 1978 and stopped David Sears, who later challenged Mike Spinks for the world light-heavyweight title. Then somebody tipped off the ABA. Styles was actually a quality pro who had been the full 10 rounds with Mike Rossman.

I was told when Pat Gallagher and Richard Evatt were having a drink together there was always carnage!
I guess at Kingstom ABC Freddie Barr the ex Olympic coach was at the helm.
Frankie Lucas won Commonwealth gold yeah? He should have gone with England but because despite being ABA champ he was overlooked so managed to get selected for some obscure Caribbean island instead! Apparently he was a bit of a headcase.
Also Kenny Anderson, actually did pretty well against Groves in his step up, but I think legal problems stopped him progressing