BoxRec

Posted: **27 Dec 2020, 11:21**

If team Joshua let’s the whole wide world down and elects to defend his WBO strap against Usyk, I wouldn’t be mad about Fury vs Kabayel. It’s time to find out what Agit is made of and - with the exception of Joyce - he’s the most deserving of the title shot of any bonafide prospect/contender.

To be fair to AJ, there is a chance that TR could also implode this mega fight. So I won’t put the (potential) blame entirely upon his chiseled shoulders.

This poll assumes that Whyte vs Povetkin II is still happening. Someone correct me if it’s not.

Posted: **27 Dec 2020, 11:23**

Of the choices listed the only real interesting options are Joyce and Yoka, and personally I'd rather those 2 fight each other first.

Posted: **27 Dec 2020, 11:48**

If not Joshua, than Joyce. It's easy to make with both being under the same promotion, while Joyce looks like the most threatening opponent now. Maybe he even is more threatening than Joshua, because he's tougher and probably more durable.

Posted: **27 Dec 2020, 12:03**

DrDuke wrote: ↑27 Dec 2020, 11:48 If not Joshua, than Joyce. It's easy to make with both being under the same promotion, while Joyce looks like the most threatening opponent now. Maybe he even is more threatening than Joshua, because he's tougher and probably more durable.

Not sure Joyce is more threatening than Joshua, per se.
But he does certainly presents a very unique set of problems in his own right.

As I said in another thread, Joyce will be handful for anyone, including the very top guys such as Fury.

Posted: **27 Dec 2020, 12:33**

gilgamesh wrote: ↑27 Dec 2020, 11:23 Of the choices listed the only real interesting options are Joyce and Yoka, and personally I'd rather those 2 fight each other first.

Same, that’s why I favor Kabayel or Hunter.

Posted: **27 Dec 2020, 14:45**

I think the interesting scalps would look something like this:
Povetkin - Basically the most accomplished of all these names, and also has good momentum with his KO of Whyte.
Hunter - His draw with Povetkin puts them relatively even, but his other wins are not that remarkable.
Ruiz Jr - Having a win over Joshua is not nothing, even if he lost the rematch. He doesn't have good momentum, but he's certainly a fine scalp to have right now.
Joyce - Undefeated, British (which is good for sales), but very modest wins in the professional ranks
Yoka - Also undefeated, and being a gold medalist is cool, but his wins are also fairly modest
Whyte - More accomplished than a few names above him, but coming off a KO defeat
Ortiz - Not a terrible or great scalp. He is still Wilder's best win, so it wouldn't hurt to have a win against him.
Pulev - Pulev's recent KO loss to Joshua puts him further out of title contention. At least Ortiz has a little momentum.
Parker - Parker's loss to Whyte means that he is probably no threat at all to Fury and would just be a routine defense, no real improvement to the resume.
Bakole - His win over Kuzmin was okay, not a big deal. But his losses aren't as bad as the losses of Martin, Helenius, Kownacki, and Helenius.

Kabayel's close decision win over Chisora has been getting stale for 3 years now. I think he needs to fight another top 10 opponent before he can be as high on the line as the OP is crediting him for. And his lack of activity / ambition is starting to look suspicious.

Posted: **27 Dec 2020, 15:54**

Lackeos wrote: ↑27 Dec 2020, 14:45 Povetkin - Basically the most accomplished of all these names, and also has good momentum with his KO of Whyte.

Corona could spoil Povetkin's momentum. It's being reported, that he had a tough course of the disease.

Lackeos wrote: ↑27 Dec 2020, 14:45 Pulev - Pulev's recent KO loss to Joshua puts him further out of title contention.

He's miles out of title contention.

Posted: **27 Dec 2020, 17:10**

DrDuke wrote: ↑27 Dec 2020, 15:54
Lackeos wrote: ↑27 Dec 2020, 14:45 Povetkin - Basically the most accomplished of all these names, and also has good momentum with his KO of Whyte.
Corona could spoil Povetkin's momentum. It's being reported, that he had a tough course of the disease.
Lackeos wrote: ↑27 Dec 2020, 14:45 Pulev - Pulev's recent KO loss to Joshua puts him further out of title contention.
He's miles out of title contention.

Pulev got his shot, and he is shot.

Posted: **27 Dec 2020, 18:05**

bobcatbox wrote: ↑27 Dec 2020, 17:10
DrDuke wrote: ↑27 Dec 2020, 15:54
Lackeos wrote: ↑27 Dec 2020, 14:45 Povetkin - Basically the most accomplished of all these names, and also has good momentum with his KO of Whyte.
Corona could spoil Povetkin's momentum. It's being reported, that he had a tough course of the disease.
Lackeos wrote: ↑27 Dec 2020, 14:45 Pulev - Pulev's recent KO loss to Joshua puts him further out of title contention.
He's miles out of title contention.
Pulev got his shot, and he is shot.

Pulev has 2 losses against totally elite opponents. That is not conclusive proof that he's not the #4 heavyweight. I.e. he hasn't ever lost to anyone outside the top 3. He could plausibly beat all 6 names that are in the poll (he'd probably go 5-1, 5-0-1, 4-1-1, or something like that). Even if he's had a shot, he's still a worthwhile scalp to have on a resume. If you're Fury or Wilder, the only names outside the top 3 that are really worth having on your resume are Povetkin, Pulev, Ortiz, Usyk, Ruiz, and Whyte. Everyone else is just filler.

To the comment about him getting his shot, some fighters get more than one shot. Glen Johnson lost in like 8 different title shots. Not everyone gets only one opportunity. It helps to have wins on your resume that keep you in the picture. For instance, Pulev has wins over Tony Thompson, Dereck Chisora, and Hughie Fury; which is... a decent foundation to work with. Doesn't quite measure up to Povetkin's and Whyte's wins.

But, as I eluded to, he ought to string together a comeback trail before he's really in line for another title fight. If he beat someone in the top 20, he would be right back in the mix for another shot (against Fury or Wilder, not Joshua).

Also, reminder: Pulev beat Chisora better than Kabayel did, and has better other opponents than Kabayel does, and doesn't have any losses to non-elite opponents. But Kabayel is on the poll? Kabayel is almost definitely worse than whatever you evaluate Pulev to be.

Posted: **27 Dec 2020, 19:16**

Lackeos wrote: ↑27 Dec 2020, 18:05
bobcatbox wrote: ↑27 Dec 2020, 17:10
DrDuke wrote: ↑27 Dec 2020, 15:54
Corona could spoil Povetkin's momentum. It's being reported, that he had a tough course of the disease.

He's miles out of title contention.
Pulev got his shot, and he is shot.
But, as I eluded to, he ought to string together a comeback trail before he's really in line for another title fight. If he beat someone in the top 20, he would be right back in the mix for another shot (against Fury or Wilder, not Joshua).

I don’t really dis Pulev as much as other fans. I wrongly predicted him to go the distance with Joshua because he does have a good resume. But he fell apart against AJ and looked shot.

His age and recent KO loss is the issue for me. I have a hard time believing he can go the distance with a quality puncher after getting stopped by Joshua. A young, hungry contender makes more sense for Fury’s next opponent. But assuming that Kubrat fought and defeated one of the other guys on this list in the meantime I wouldn’t have a problem with him getting a shot at the lineal title.

Lackeos wrote: ↑27 Dec 2020, 18:05
But Kabayel is on the poll? Kabayel is almost definitely worse than whatever you evaluate Pulev to be.

I think Agit is better than he looked in recent fights and would beat Pulev. But you convinced me. I added Pulev

.

Posted: **29 Dec 2020, 10:53**

Joyce will be avoided by all.

Yoka was not very convincing against a covid victim last time out, but did what he needed to do.

these are the two i'd fancy seeing against Fury.

Posted: **29 Dec 2020, 11:14**

If Team Joshua’s claims about their willingness to vacate the WBO strap in order to face Tyson Fury next are true, coupled with the fact they’ve verbally agreed the terms of their bouts, then we have to assume The Gypsy King won’t be allowed to engage in an interim bout, because there’s too much money at risk for an awful lot of stakeholders.

Posted: **29 Dec 2020, 14:30**

or they'll throw him a bum

Posted: **31 Dec 2020, 05:33**

That's a pretty good evaluation if you don't mind my saying so. I have interjected a few remarks of my own ...

Lackeos wrote: ↑27 Dec 2020, 14:45 I think the interesting scalps would look something like this:

Povetkin - Basically the most accomplished of all these names, and also has good momentum with his KO of Whyte.

cs: Can't disagree but I think Fury's huge advantages in size and mobility means most fans will believe they know exactly how this plays out. Interest will be moderate at best. Povetkin is cunning and would try to lay traps for Fury though.

Hunter - His draw with Povetkin puts them relatively even, but his other wins are not that remarkable.

cs: The Bakole win could look a lot better as time goes by. Hunter is a capable all-rounder but he's a level or two below Usyk. Need I say more?

Ruiz Jr - Having a win over Joshua is not nothing, even if he lost the rematch. He doesn't have good momentum, but he's certainly a fine scalp to have right now.

cs: I whole-heartedly agree although it won't just be the casuals writing off Ruiz's chances even after what happened in the garden, and i wouldn't entirely blame them.

Joyce - Undefeated, British (which is good for sales), but very modest wins in the professional ranks

cs: Great amateur career though and a history of coming out on top in shoot-outs with big-reputation opponents. I can't help thinking though that Fury has exactly the right tools for what would prove a difficult task for almost everyone else.

Yoka - Also undefeated, and being a gold medalist is cool, but his wins are also fairly modest

cs: Not modest when you consider how few fights he's had as a pro. Were it not for that lost year he would be further along and might be second behind Joshua in the threat to Fury stakes, being way more manoeuvrable than the relatively static Joyce.

Whyte - More accomplished than a few names above him, but coming off a KO defeat

cs: True but poses more of a risk to Fury than most. He'll need to work on cutting off the ring though.

Ortiz - Not a terrible or great scalp. He is still Wilder's best win, so it wouldn't hurt to have a win against him.

cs: That sums it up nicely. Mind you Ortiz's scalp value reduces with every year that passes for obvious reasons i.e. he's a study in pugilistic gerontology.

Pulev - Pulev's recent KO loss to Joshua puts him further out of title contention. At least Ortiz has a little momentum.

cs: Although what you say is true. Pulev has gone up in my estimation after his showing against Joshua. Granted that's because I felt his resumé was extremely weak for someone so highly ranked for so long, and that he was way past his best, as inconsequential as that best might have been. Let's face it though, he poses even less threat to Fury than he did to Joshua.

Parker - Parker's loss to Whyte means that he is probably no threat at all to Fury and would just be a routine defense, no real improvement to the resume.

cs: Parker almost beat Whyte in very difficult circumstances having been floored for the first time in his career and not by legal means and on Whyte's home-turf. He is better equipped than most having boxing skills and mobility but I'm not sure he has the necessary aggression / winners' mentality.

Bakole - His win over Kuzmin was okay, not a big deal. But his losses aren't as bad as the losses of Martin, Helenius, Kownacki, and Helenius.

cs: I'd agree with that. I'd like to believe he's improved a lot since his poor showing against Hunter.

Kabayel's close decision win over Chisora has been getting stale for 3 years now. I think he needs to fight another top 10 opponent before he can be as high on the line as the OP is crediting him for. And his lack of activity / ambition is starting to look suspicious.

cs I totally agree. His inactivity pre-dates Covid by a distance and he has never shown any ambition to build upon that win over a lacklustre Dereck Chisora. Leaving aside his questionable attitude, as a boxer he is tidy with decent skills and a chin which has held up as far as it has been tested to-date, but I think he doesn't carry much pop and that he is Fury's inferior in literally every department.

cs: In conclusion I accept that Fury's stock is at an all-time high after thrashing Wilder, but once you find the way to negate that right hand (credit to Fury for lighting the way) then de-activating the otherwise modestly talented Wilder is probably not as formidable a task as Fury is being credited with, Realistically I don't see anyone this side of the horizon on his level other than Joshua and I'm sure Fury is vastly improved but I think it's important to remember the performances against McDermott, Pajkic, Cunningham and more recently Wallin, that Fury is unbeaten but not not unbeatable.

As for the OP's comment about Joshua, if we really want to be fair to him we should keep in mind that he owes us nothing and for him it's always been about the belts and not the opponent. He wants to add that green belt to his collection and he doesn't want to give up one of the belts in order to acquire another. He has consistently fought his mandatories and the best opponents who have been willing to face him. That includes big offers in the past to fight Wilder, Fury, and Ortiz. Cut the man some slack.

Posted: **31 Dec 2020, 05:52**

Assuming the pointless Wilder trilogy doesn't get forced, it has to be Josh. If aj takes usyk first it will be kaybel.

Posted: **31 Dec 2020, 17:01**

In a world more fair, I would rather see Fury vs Ruiz. At least then you could have champion versus ex champion, and it would be one more "name" on the resume for Fury that makes sense.

Of those names listed, Kabayel is the only one that makes sense at least from a marketing standpoint. The guy is Europe's allegedly best heavyweight, and it's a safe match that wouldn't upset the applecart. So it'd make money in Europe, but nowhere else.

I wouldn't be surprised if such a match is that wouldn't it be put on in Manchester or in Fury's adopted hometown of Morecambe, although to be honest I don't like the idea of training near home because people do not tend to focus as much.

Jesus Christ Almighty God bless you all

Posted: **31 Dec 2020, 17:05**

Andy Ruiz vs Wilder would be real interesting because given Ruiz's ability to take a good punch he may well be able to stop Wilder the way he did AJ.

I don't imagine he'd do much of sh*t against Fury.

Posted: **31 Dec 2020, 17:08**

gilgamesh wrote: ↑31 Dec 2020, 17:05 Andy Ruiz vs Wilder would be real interesting because given Ruiz's ability to take a good punch he may well be able to stop Wilder the way he did AJ.

I don't imagine he'd do much of sh*t against Fury.

Ruiz vs Wilder is probably a shootout, but I’d favor Wilder in any shootout.

If Kownacki beats The Nordic Nightmare in their unwelcome rematch maybe we’d see two chubby guys in a good chubby guy fight.

Posted: **31 Dec 2020, 17:09**

bobcatbox wrote: ↑31 Dec 2020, 17:08
gilgamesh wrote: ↑31 Dec 2020, 17:05 Andy Ruiz vs Wilder would be real interesting because given Ruiz's ability to take a good punch he may well be able to stop Wilder the way he did AJ.

I don't imagine he'd do much of sh*t against Fury.
Ruiz vs Wilder is probably a shootout, but I’d favor Wilder in any shootout.

If Kownacki beats The Nordic Nightmare in their unwelcome rematch maybe we’d see two chubby guys in a good chubby guy fight.

That'd be solid too.

Posted: **31 Dec 2020, 18:00**

next opponent for an interesting fight, i reckon Joe Joyce,he is a good shout a big lad that can box and could go the distance . no way ruiz we saw what aj did to ruiz when he boxed him in the 2nd fight so what chance does andy have against a top boxer plus big man there be no hugging or bullying against fury , ruiz v parker 2 should be a fight

Posted: **31 Dec 2020, 18:36**

brilo33 wrote: ↑31 Dec 2020, 18:00 next opponent for an interesting fight, i reckon Joe Joyce,he is a good shout a big lad that can box and could go the distance . no way ruiz we saw what aj did to ruiz when he boxed him in the 2nd fight so what chance does andy have against a top boxer plus big man there be no hugging or bullying against fury , ruiz v parker 2 should be a fight

How do you figure? Wasn't a good fight the first time. Competitive, yes. Entertaining, no.

Posted: **31 Dec 2020, 18:42**

gilgamesh wrote: ↑31 Dec 2020, 18:36
brilo33 wrote: ↑31 Dec 2020, 18:00 next opponent for an interesting fight, i reckon Joe Joyce,he is a good shout a big lad that can box and could go the distance . no way ruiz we saw what aj did to ruiz when he boxed him in the 2nd fight so what chance does andy have against a top boxer plus big man there be no hugging or bullying against fury , ruiz v parker 2 should be a fight
How do you figure? Wasn't a good fight the first time. Competitive, yes. Entertaining, no.

beacuse i think ruiz has improved. also looks like he is trainng well, competitive fight why not, rather that than him v fury, but if he takes parker to school than why not any one then after

Posted: **31 Dec 2020, 18:48**

brilo33 wrote: ↑31 Dec 2020, 18:42
gilgamesh wrote: ↑31 Dec 2020, 18:36
brilo33 wrote: ↑31 Dec 2020, 18:00 next opponent for an interesting fight, i reckon Joe Joyce,he is a good shout a big lad that can box and could go the distance . no way ruiz we saw what aj did to ruiz when he boxed him in the 2nd fight so what chance does andy have against a top boxer plus big man there be no hugging or bullying against fury , ruiz v parker 2 should be a fight
How do you figure? Wasn't a good fight the first time. Competitive, yes. Entertaining, no.
beacuse i think ruiz has improved. also looks like he is trainng well, competitive fight why not, rather that than him v fury, but if he takes parker to school than why not any one then after

There are several guys I'd rather see Ruiz fight.

Posted: **31 Dec 2020, 18:53**

gilgamesh wrote: ↑31 Dec 2020, 17:05 Andy Ruiz vs Wilder would be real interesting because given Ruiz's ability to take a good punch he may well be able to stop Wilder the way he did AJ.

I don't imagine he'd do much of sh*t against Fury.

I suspect that it'd end in a stoppage between rounds 5-8 for Fury, because Ruiz is just too short and would eat jabs and hooks from beginning to end.

Personally a great undercard to Fury/Joshua would be Ruiz/Wilder, but that'll never happen. Ruiz is too dead set on fighting the echo of Chris Arreola and Wilder's off in Neverland.

Jesus Christ Almighty God bless you all

Posted: **31 Dec 2020, 19:04**

gilgamesh wrote: ↑31 Dec 2020, 18:48
brilo33 wrote: ↑31 Dec 2020, 18:42
gilgamesh wrote: ↑31 Dec 2020, 18:36

How do you figure? Wasn't a good fight the first time. Competitive, yes. Entertaining, no.
beacuse i think ruiz has improved. also looks like he is trainng well, competitive fight why not, rather that than him v fury, but if he takes parker to school than why not any one then after
There are several guys I'd rather see Ruiz fight.

no doubt but if youre saying ruiz to fight fury, it would be totaly different fight plan if ruiz was to fight wilder first , i think wilder would ko ruiz early mid rds ,

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