BoxRec

f@ckin ell, fwank looking gorgeous there

Shhhh wrote: ↑10 Feb 2021, 14:53 Talking of gangsterism and corruption in boxing I saw this very good docu on YouTube. Filmed in 1993 it focuses especially on BBBofC and the control and domination of boxing by Messrs Monek Prager and Josef Galombovich (guess ).

Whats really interesting are interview with FW, Barry Hearn, Frank Maloney before he cut his cock off. This is in 1993 so they’re all complaining about the Duff / Astaire monopoly. Also there’s a chat with Mark Kaylor, Darren Dyer, and Jim McDonnell in a pub and their very critical of Duff.

Also an interesting bit on Johnny Bos talking about Bruno, his relationship with Duff and the legendary Chuck gardener... I totally recommend it from so many angles, funny to hear allegedly and Hearn cry about monopoly. Also implication is Duff owned BBBofC

Duff was on the wane by 1993. Definitely third or even fourth out of that crop.

Shhhh wrote: ↑10 Feb 2021, 17:05

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑10 Feb 2021, 16:28 f@ckin ell, fwank looking gorgeous there

Lol to be fair fish eyes was quite good looking then (#nohomo )

Shhhh wrote: ↑10 Feb 2021, 14:53 Talking of gangsterism and corruption in boxing I saw this very good docu on YouTube. Filmed in 1993 it focuses especially on BBBofC and the control and domination of boxing by Messrs Monek Prager and Josef Galombovich (guess ).

Whats really interesting are interview with FW, Barry Hearn, Frank Maloney before he cut his cock off. This is in 1993 so they’re all complaining about the Duff / Astaire monopoly. Also there’s a chat with Mark Kaylor, Darren Dyer, and Jim McDonnell in a pub and their very critical of Duff.

Also an interesting bit on Johnny Bos talking about Bruno, his relationship with Duff and the legendary Chuck gardener... I totally recommend it from so many angles, funny to hear allegedly and Hearn cry about monopoly. Also implication is Duff owned BBBofC

It amazes me when fighters have the notion that their managers and promoters actually care for them. The managers and promoters are in it to make a profit. Money is their only consideration and compassion belongs strictly to trainers like Eddie Futch and the amateur game. I also find it strange that the likes of Warren, Hearn and Maloney are moaning about Duff in 1993 because, as rightly pointed out in the thread, Mickey was on the wane by then and lost his deal with the BBC in 1997.
Duff's real monopoly began in the mid-1960s and lasted until the mid-1980s, when Warren promoted his first world title fight (Curry-Jones in 1985). Hearn came along in 1987, when he was involved in the Bruno-Bugner fight (with Duff) and Maloney broke through on the back of Lennox Lewis in 1989, thanks to the finances of Roger Levitt. When Levitt went bust, Duff took over some of Maloney's fighters and did a good job with them. Johnny Armour is one example.
Say what you will about Duff but he knew how to move a fighter and all his fighters, if they could cut it, were not struggling for title opportunities. They also got paid, of course, but most of them blew their money. That's when they began to resent Duff, when they were skint.
Mark Kaylor, Jim McDonnell and Darren Dyer were all good fighters but not as good as John H. Stracey, John Conteh, Lloyd Honeyghan or Charlie Magri. Dyer, in particular, proved a disappointment in the pro ranks because his chin let him down. There was nothing Duff could do about that. McDonnell, who was managed by Terry Lawless, won a European title under promoter Duff and got a world title shot against Brian Mitchell, which he fluffed. Kaylor needed to beat Tony Sibson in 1984 or Herol Graham in 1986 to get a shot at Marvin Hagler but he lost both times.
As for the late Johnny Bos, he was a brilliant boxing man who enjoyed a great relationship with Duff because all the American fighters he sent over to the UK put up a fight but never enough to win. Yes, someone like Chuck Gardner enhanced nobody's reputation but what can you do when the likes of Gerrie Coetzee or Jesse Ferguson also flop in the first round against Bruno.

I noticed in the records section that Jim Watt beat Stracey in the first round in the ABA semis, any more info?

bennie wrote: ↑11 Feb 2021, 03:45 McDonnell, who was managed by Terry Lawless, won a European title under promoter Duff and got a world title shot against Brian Mitchell, which he fluffed.

bit harsh, mate, McDonnell just wasn't good enough to beat Mitchell, not in a month of Sundays

Coco wrote: ↑11 Feb 2021, 06:17 I noticed in the records section that Jim Watt beat Stracey in the first round in the ABA semis, any more info?

Proper knockout win for Watt, who was a bit older and a bit more seasoned than 18-year-old Stracey. Watt romped to the ABA lightweight title a bout later but then ruled himself out of selection for the Olympics that year (1968) because of the severe altitude in Mexico City. Stracey went instead and was eliminated in the lightweight preliminaries on a 4:1 decision by the eventual gold medallist Ronnie Harris of America. Harris did some filling out and later stopped Alan Minter over here. The word is that Marvin Hagler wanted no part of southpaw Harris.
Stracey turned pro with Terry Lawless after the Games and went all the way to the world welterweight title but Lawless never forgot Watt's win over the Londoner and when Watt's career was seemingly dead and buried due to repeated cuts, Lawless snapped him up and steered the Scot to world title glory in his native Glasgow.

bennie wrote: ↑12 Feb 2021, 07:32

Coco wrote: ↑11 Feb 2021, 06:17 I noticed in the records section that Jim Watt beat Stracey in the first round in the ABA semis, any more info?

Proper knockout win for Watt, who was a bit older and a bit more seasoned than 18-year-old Stracey. Watt romped to the ABA lightweight title a bout later but then ruled himself out of selection for the Olympics that year (1968) because of the severe altitude in Mexico City. Stracey went instead and was eliminated in the lightweight preliminaries on a 4:1 decision by the eventual gold medallist Ronnie Harris of America. Harris did some filling out and later stopped Alan Minter over here. The word is that Marvin Hagler wanted no part of southpaw Harris.
Stracey turned pro with Terry Lawless after the Games and went all the way to the world welterweight title but Lawless never forgot Watt's win over the Londoner and when Watt's career was seemingly dead and buried due to repeated cuts, Lawless snapped him up and steered the Scot to world title glory in his native Glasgow.

Great story in Jim Watt's autobiography about the time he went down to London with Lawless - John Stracey's dad held a massive grudge against Jim Watt for knocking out his son - Jim Watt suggested in the book that Stracey might have come in a bit overconfident and got caught in the first - anyway, Watt was sparring and Stracey Sr was heckling at ringside saying 'Watt punches with his eyes closed - like the night he got lucky and knocked out our John' and Watt hollered back 'The last time I punched with my eyes shut was when you had your mouth shut' which shut Stracey's dad up.

bennie wrote: ↑12 Feb 2021, 07:32

Coco wrote: ↑11 Feb 2021, 06:17 I noticed in the records section that Jim Watt beat Stracey in the first round in the ABA semis, any more info?

Proper knockout win for Watt, who was a bit older and a bit more seasoned than 18-year-old Stracey. Watt romped to the ABA lightweight title a bout later but then ruled himself out of selection for the Olympics that year (1968) because of the severe altitude in Mexico City. Stracey went instead and was eliminated in the lightweight preliminaries on a 4:1 decision by the eventual gold medallist Ronnie Harris of America. Harris did some filling out and later stopped Alan Minter over here. The word is that Marvin Hagler wanted no part of southpaw Harris.
Stracey turned pro with Terry Lawless after the Games and went all the way to the world welterweight title but Lawless never forgot Watt's win over the Londoner and when Watt's career was seemingly dead and buried due to repeated cuts, Lawless snapped him up and steered the Scot to world title glory in his native Glasgow.

Nice one Bennie

Would you regard Haler as a protected fighter?

Also with Harris, I see he was unbeaten before losing a split decision for the title away in Argentina.
Fair decision? And I bet he wasn't given the Minter fight to win!
Also he never got a shot again, badly managed or was gone by then?

Coco wrote: ↑12 Feb 2021, 09:29

bennie wrote: ↑12 Feb 2021, 07:32

Coco wrote: ↑11 Feb 2021, 06:17 I noticed in the records section that Jim Watt beat Stracey in the first round in the ABA semis, any more info?

Proper knockout win for Watt, who was a bit older and a bit more seasoned than 18-year-old Stracey. Watt romped to the ABA lightweight title a bout later but then ruled himself out of selection for the Olympics that year (1968) because of the severe altitude in Mexico City. Stracey went instead and was eliminated in the lightweight preliminaries on a 4:1 decision by the eventual gold medallist Ronnie Harris of America. Harris did some filling out and later stopped Alan Minter over here. The word is that Marvin Hagler wanted no part of southpaw Harris.
Stracey turned pro with Terry Lawless after the Games and went all the way to the world welterweight title but Lawless never forgot Watt's win over the Londoner and when Watt's career was seemingly dead and buried due to repeated cuts, Lawless snapped him up and steered the Scot to world title glory in his native Glasgow.

Nice one Bennie

Would you regard Haler as a protected fighter?

Also with Harris, I see he was unbeaten before losing a split decision for the title away in Argentina.
Fair decision? And I bet he wasn't given the Minter fight to win!
Also he never got a shot again, badly managed or was gone by then?

No, Marvin paid his dues on the way to the world middleweight title, cleaning up in Philly and toppling almost every available contender except for Harris, who beat Hagler to a title shot at Argentina's Hugo Corro in Buenos Aires in 1978. Harris was a slippery fighter who liked opponents to come forward but Corro kept on the move and paced the fight well, although there was never much between them and scores were split at the end of 15 rounds. Nonetheless, there was no outcry over the decision. Harris didn't do enough.
Minter had lost to Harris in the previous year, struggling to nail the American and picking up cuts when Harris dropped in some sharp counters. You could see why Harris was an avoided fighter in the States. Minter was pulled out at the end of the eighth round, bleeding badly from the mouth and cut over both eyes. His attempt to leapfrog the WBC top 10 had failed.
Despite that win, Harris was never particularly exciting and suffered a disastrous stoppage defeat to big-hitting Sammy Nesmith in the States in 1980, after which the TV networks walked away. There was simply no incentive to screen a cagey southpaw like Harris.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pa7zKyLpSBU&t=3s not british but same thing , bob arum in this one

bennie wrote: ↑12 Feb 2021, 11:55

Coco wrote: ↑12 Feb 2021, 09:29

bennie wrote: ↑12 Feb 2021, 07:32


Proper knockout win for Watt, who was a bit older and a bit more seasoned than 18-year-old Stracey. Watt romped to the ABA lightweight title a bout later but then ruled himself out of selection for the Olympics that year (1968) because of the severe altitude in Mexico City. Stracey went instead and was eliminated in the lightweight preliminaries on a 4:1 decision by the eventual gold medallist Ronnie Harris of America. Harris did some filling out and later stopped Alan Minter over here. The word is that Marvin Hagler wanted no part of southpaw Harris.
Stracey turned pro with Terry Lawless after the Games and went all the way to the world welterweight title but Lawless never forgot Watt's win over the Londoner and when Watt's career was seemingly dead and buried due to repeated cuts, Lawless snapped him up and steered the Scot to world title glory in his native Glasgow.

Nice one Bennie

Would you regard Haler as a protected fighter?

Also with Harris, I see he was unbeaten before losing a split decision for the title away in Argentina.
Fair decision? And I bet he wasn't given the Minter fight to win!
Also he never got a shot again, badly managed or was gone by then?

No, Marvin paid his dues on the way to the world middleweight title, cleaning up in Philly and toppling almost every available contender except for Harris, who beat Hagler to a title shot at Argentina's Hugo Corro in Buenos Aires in 1978. Harris was a slippery fighter who liked opponents to come forward but Corro kept on the move and paced the fight well, although there was never much between them and scores were split at the end of 15 rounds. Nonetheless, there was no outcry over the decision. Harris didn't do enough.
Minter had lost to Harris in the previous year, struggling to nail the American and picking up cuts when Harris dropped in some sharp counters. You could see why Harris was an avoided fighter in the States. Minter was pulled out at the end of the eighth round, bleeding badly from the mouth and cut over both eyes. His attempt to leapfrog the WBC top 10 had failed.
Despite that win, Harris was never particularly exciting and suffered a disastrous stoppage defeat to big-hitting Sammy Nesmith in the States in 1980, after which the TV networks walked away. There was simply no incentive to screen a cagey southpaw like Harris.

nice one

A question for the old boys. Did any one like Micky duff ?? From what I’ve read about him he came across as a miserable old toe rag.

high tower 1 wrote: ↑12 Feb 2021, 18:09 A question for the old boys. Did any one like Micky duff ?? From what I’ve read about him he came across as a miserable old toe rag.

Mickey was all right, as long as he didn't have to pay for anything. Money was his God and I remember fighter Chris Sanigar saying that it killed them (the Cartel) if they thought you had the bus fare home. Duff resented paying for anything but his fighters got their proper cut and the rest was shared evenly and grandly between the Cartel (Duff, Lawless, Astaire and Barrett). Barrett dropped out after the Chuck Gardner scandal in 1987, when no-hoper Gardner was badly knocked out by Frank Bruno in under a minute. Barrett never saw eye-to-eye with Lawless and the Gardner fiasco was the last straw. Barrett showed a lot of class. He was right when he went public and said that Gardner could have been killed.
For all Duff's greed, he was a good man to have in a corner, a strong man, and he was right up there with Don King and Bob Arum when it came to 'clout' in the boxing world. He cracked America and dominated British boxing for many, many years. He was so big that when Maurice Hope defended his WBC light-middleweight title against Wilfred Benitez in Las Vegas, Duff had a share in both fighters, but you can see him at ringside, urging Hope on in animated fashion for round after round, right up to the spectacular Benitez finish.
He was animated, of course, because he had a bigger share in Hope than he did in Benitez.

Shhhh wrote: ↑12 Feb 2021, 17:52

bennie wrote: ↑12 Feb 2021, 11:55

Coco wrote: ↑12 Feb 2021, 09:29

Nice one Bennie

Would you regard Haler as a protected fighter?

Also with Harris, I see he was unbeaten before losing a split decision for the title away in Argentina.
Fair decision? And I bet he wasn't given the Minter fight to win!
Also he never got a shot again, badly managed or was gone by then?

No, Marvin paid his dues on the way to the world middleweight title, cleaning up in Philly and toppling almost every available contender except for Harris, who beat Hagler to a title shot at Argentina's Hugo Corro in Buenos Aires in 1978. Harris was a slippery fighter who liked opponents to come forward but Corro kept on the move and paced the fight well, although there was never much between them and scores were split at the end of 15 rounds. Nonetheless, there was no outcry over the decision. Harris didn't do enough.
Minter had lost to Harris in the previous year, struggling to nail the American and picking up cuts when Harris dropped in some sharp counters. You could see why Harris was an avoided fighter in the States. Minter was pulled out at the end of the eighth round, bleeding badly from the mouth and cut over both eyes. His attempt to leapfrog the WBC top 10 had failed.
Despite that win, Harris was never particularly exciting and suffered a disastrous stoppage defeat to big-hitting Sammy Nesmith in the States in 1980, after which the TV networks walked away. There was simply no incentive to screen a cagey southpaw like Harris.

Have you thought of writhing a book about boxing? I don’t know many with your knowledge if anyone

I can't lie, mate, I had to dig out some old copies of Boxing News for this one. Ronnie Harris was a bit before my time but I knew that, like Hagler, he was black, southpaw and good. Hagler would have beaten him but Harris made fighters look bad so the Petronellis kept their man away.

Fray Bentos wrote: ↑12 Feb 2021, 07:50

bennie wrote: ↑12 Feb 2021, 07:32

Coco wrote: ↑11 Feb 2021, 06:17 I noticed in the records section that Jim Watt beat Stracey in the first round in the ABA semis, any more info?

Proper knockout win for Watt, who was a bit older and a bit more seasoned than 18-year-old Stracey. Watt romped to the ABA lightweight title a bout later but then ruled himself out of selection for the Olympics that year (1968) because of the severe altitude in Mexico City. Stracey went instead and was eliminated in the lightweight preliminaries on a 4:1 decision by the eventual gold medallist Ronnie Harris of America. Harris did some filling out and later stopped Alan Minter over here. The word is that Marvin Hagler wanted no part of southpaw Harris.
Stracey turned pro with Terry Lawless after the Games and went all the way to the world welterweight title but Lawless never forgot Watt's win over the Londoner and when Watt's career was seemingly dead and buried due to repeated cuts, Lawless snapped him up and steered the Scot to world title glory in his native Glasgow.

Great story in Jim Watt's autobiography about the time he went down to London with Lawless - John Stracey's dad held a massive grudge against Jim Watt for knocking out his son - Jim Watt suggested in the book that Stracey might have come in a bit overconfident and got caught in the first - anyway, Watt was sparring and Stracey Sr was heckling at ringside saying 'Watt punches with his eyes closed - like the night he got lucky and knocked out our John' and Watt hollered back 'The last time I punched with my eyes shut was when you had your mouth shut' which shut Stracey's dad up.

You're right, Stracey was cocky in his fighting days and had a real nasty streak which he clearly inherited from his old man. He liked to hit opponents on the bell and use his elbows and then had the gall to complain about Dave Green's use of the head in their memorable set-to in the 1970s. I really thought that Stracey (like Alan Minter) would struggle in retirement but he mellowed and is now one of the nicest blokes you could ever wish to meet. John is happy.

high tower 1 wrote: ↑12 Feb 2021, 18:09 A question for the old boys. Did any one like Micky duff ?? From what I’ve read about him he came across as a miserable old toe rag.

Duff was very generous with his time. As a 16 year old boy he spoke/ranted with me for an hour on boxing in a waiting room at York station. I only cheekily said “alright Mickey?”. He loved the sport. I asked him how tickets were going for the upcoming Elland Road show and he said “better than those lying b’s said they did” referring to Eubank-Watson 2.

bennie wrote: ↑13 Feb 2021, 03:06

high tower 1 wrote: ↑12 Feb 2021, 18:09 A question for the old boys. Did any one like Micky duff ?? From what I’ve read about him he came across as a miserable old toe rag.

Mickey was all right, as long as he didn't have to pay for anything. Money was his God and I remember fighter Chris Sanigar saying that it killed them (the Cartel) if they thought you had the bus fare home. Duff resented paying for anything but his fighters got their proper cut and the rest was shared evenly and grandly between the Cartel (Duff, Lawless, Astaire and Barrett). Barrett dropped out after the Chuck Gardner scandal in 1987, when no-hoper Gardner was badly knocked out by Frank Bruno in under a minute. Barrett never saw eye-to-eye with Lawless and the Gardner fiasco was the last straw. Barrett showed a lot of class. He was right when he went public and said that Gardner could have been killed.
For all Duff's greed, he was a good man to have in a corner, a strong man, and he was right up there with Don King and Bob Arum when it came to 'clout' in the boxing world. He cracked America and dominated British boxing for many, many years. He was so big that when Maurice Hope defended his WBC light-middleweight title against Wilfred Benitez in Las Vegas, Duff had a share in both fighters, but you can see him at ringside, urging Hope on in animated fashion for round after round, right up to the spectacular Benitez finish.
He was animated, of course, because he had a bigger share in Hope than he did in Benitez.

Thanks Bennie. Regarding lawless I didn’t know much about him but read about how he dealt with Charlie magri after he lost and finished up. Which seemed to be very poorly , like a racehorse that was no use to him. Boxing in the 70/80s seemed like a very brutal business and a “mugs game” for the fighters.

mickey1975 wrote: ↑13 Feb 2021, 04:22

high tower 1 wrote: ↑12 Feb 2021, 18:09 A question for the old boys. Did any one like Micky duff ?? From what I’ve read about him he came across as a miserable old toe rag.

Duff was very generous with his time. As a 16 year old boy he spoke/ranted with me for an hour on boxing in a waiting room at York station. I only cheekily said “alright Mickey?”. He loved the sport. I asked him how tickets were going for the upcoming Elland Road show and he said “better than those lying b’s said they did” referring to Eubank-Watson 2.

Nice one. Well you can’t argue with his credentials. He did it all from pro boxer through to HOF promoter.

high tower 1 wrote: ↑13 Feb 2021, 04:23

bennie wrote: ↑13 Feb 2021, 03:06

high tower 1 wrote: ↑12 Feb 2021, 18:09 A question for the old boys. Did any one like Micky duff ?? From what I’ve read about him he came across as a miserable old toe rag.

Mickey was all right, as long as he didn't have to pay for anything. Money was his God and I remember fighter Chris Sanigar saying that it killed them (the Cartel) if they thought you had the bus fare home. Duff resented paying for anything but his fighters got their proper cut and the rest was shared evenly and grandly between the Cartel (Duff, Lawless, Astaire and Barrett). Barrett dropped out after the Chuck Gardner scandal in 1987, when no-hoper Gardner was badly knocked out by Frank Bruno in under a minute. Barrett never saw eye-to-eye with Lawless and the Gardner fiasco was the last straw. Barrett showed a lot of class. He was right when he went public and said that Gardner could have been killed.
For all Duff's greed, he was a good man to have in a corner, a strong man, and he was right up there with Don King and Bob Arum when it came to 'clout' in the boxing world. He cracked America and dominated British boxing for many, many years. He was so big that when Maurice Hope defended his WBC light-middleweight title against Wilfred Benitez in Las Vegas, Duff had a share in both fighters, but you can see him at ringside, urging Hope on in animated fashion for round after round, right up to the spectacular Benitez finish.
He was animated, of course, because he had a bigger share in Hope than he did in Benitez.

Thanks Bennie. Regarding lawless I didn’t know much about him but read about how he dealt with Charlie magri after he lost and finished up. Which seemed to be very poorly , like a racehorse that was no use to him. Boxing in the 70/80s seemed like a very brutal business and a “mugs game” for the fighters.

Lawless was right, though. Magri's boxing career was over (after the loss to Duke McKenzie in 1986) and he now had to work for a living, to paraphrase Lawless.

That Johnny Bos was a character wasn't he? He looks like a cross between Joe Exotic and Jimmy Saville.