BoxRec

How is he not in the IBHOF ? I'm curious if anyone here thinks he's not worthy of induction and, if so, why ?

mate parlov, leslie stewart, galindez as best wins

stopped in all his fights with saad and spinks and eddie mustafa. clearly not at that level when it comes to winning. only made 1 succesful title defense i think (and vs a poor opponent)


i mean i can see his case and (insert obligatory but if gatti/vitali/mugigan is in argument), but he's hardly one of these guys who is being wronged by not being in

goose 5 wrote: ↑11 Feb 2021, 20:24 How is he not in the IBHOF ? I'm curious if anyone here thinks he's not worthy of induction and, if so, why ?

I've always argued for him. He is the only American I seriously argue about who is not in yet. Those three world championship reigns have to be worth something!

Well, Eddie Mustapha Muhammad is an American and he should have been 20 years ago. He beat Johnson and was better.

Johnson is a borderline case. He was a very exciting fighter who was great offensively; defense, not so much.
The title fight against Saad was a back and forth war. He was competitive against Mustapha.
The win over Galindez was huge.

I'd say he does deserve the nod.

I'd have Marvin in for all the thrillers. As exciting as they come. Was competing in a stacked division.

It’s safe to classify him as borderline, but I think he gets the nod. The deciding factor for me is his vastly underrated comeback (losing to Spinks, then working his way back to the WBA title).

And Eddie Mustafa Muhammad should be in for his boxing, his work as a trainer and his efforts to unionize.

I would say "yes." Johnson beat an Olympic gold medalist (Mate Parlov) when he first won the title, and he beat an outstanding, underrated champion in Galindez when he won it for the 2nd time. Johnson's comeback after to losing to Spinks in '81 was incredible. He scored victories over Eddie Gonzalez (hot and up and coming at that time), Eddie Davis (outstanding perennial contender and near champion) and Prince Charles Williams (future outstanding champion). When he beat Leslie Stewart to win the title for the 3rd time, he beat a well-schooled, capable boxer-puncher. Yes, Stewart had his vulnerabilities, and Johnson busted him up (partially with head-butts). However, Johnson was a 3 time LH Champion. Emebe, whom Johnson successfully defended again, wasn't a great fighter, but he was tough and capable (lower half of top ten type of contender). Johnson had tremendous heart and will. An inspiring fighter for sure.

he is obviosly worthy, as in, if he got inducted you couldnt really complain about it. it's hard to say he doesnt have a case.

but like mentioned, he's one of these guys who didnt really do enough to make himself a lock or someone who absolutely needs to be inducted

It is funny how the HOF works. Everyone is always saying that a guy who is not in should be because he was better than someone who is in. (I find myself doing this). However, what we all have to remember is that guys that aren't in are not competing against current HOFers for votes. They are competing against other guys who are not.

There are also windows of opportunity. In some years, true legend that is eligible for the time is up and will get in. This hurts everyone else's chances. Then there are years when it is not strong and guys sneak in. The Old Timers (or whatever they are currently calling it, will take someone that it's hard hard to believe a high % of people actually voted for, but hey have to put in someone. Were people really screaming for Jake Kilrain, Billy Miske etc?

Perhaps the the biggest problem is the secrecy. In NBA, MLB, NFL, etc, there is always information about upcoming elections. Who are the finalists and so on. In the IBHOF, it is hard to find this information even if you look for it.
Why the secrecy? You would think the IBHO would be trying to get this info out; it gives them free Advertising.

I have been pushing for Eddie Mustapha Muhammad for many years. Remember Saad Muhammad (who no one has a problem being in) has been in the HOF for 23 years!

I found out a few yeas ago, I found out that Mustapha Muhammad was not even on the ballot!
Is Marvin Johnson on the ballot?

No brainer for me. Definitely. Major player in the LHW divisions best era.

I could see it happen. And Mustapha Muhammad still not getting in.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑07 Mar 2021, 13:14 I could see it happen. And Mustapha Muhammad still not getting in.

EMM was a good champion.....

AntonioMartin wrote: ↑09 Mar 2021, 06:54

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑07 Mar 2021, 13:14 I could see it happen. And Mustapha Muhammad still not getting in.

EMM was a good champion.....

As well as a great trainer and an outstanding advocate for the rights of fighters.

bwu wrote: ↑09 Mar 2021, 10:40

AntonioMartin wrote: ↑09 Mar 2021, 06:54

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑07 Mar 2021, 13:14 I could see it happen. And Mustapha Muhammad still not getting in.

EMM was a good champion.....

As well as a great trainer and an outstanding advocate for the rights of fighters.

All true...

Yes, for me... But I am a lot more lenient than most...

Both Johnson and Gregory/Muhammad deserve to be inducted. Muhammad more so, both I would like to see both get in.

goose 5 wrote: ↑11 Feb 2021, 20:24 How is he not in the IBHOF ? I'm curious if anyone here thinks he's not worthy of induction and, if so, why ?

The boxing hall of fame is a liberal place, but one thing a fighter needs to be is popular. IMO Johnson really isn't. He lost via KO pretty much every time he fought the best. The he was born at the wrong time argument might suit him better.

He was stopped by Saad and by Mustapha Muhammad. However, if you actually watch those fights you can tell how good Johnson was even though he lost. And of course he did beat Galindez.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑24 Mar 2021, 15:30 He was stopped by Saad and by Mustapha Muhammad. However, if you actually watch those fights you can tell how good Johnson was even though he lost. And of course he did beat Galindez.

The he was a good loser argument should not be primary to get into the hall of fame. You have to win your shoe of big matches too.

Sure it would have helped his case had he won those fights. However, there are tons of guys in there who almost always lost when they fought a great opponent.

Joey Maxim was 3-14 against Hall of Famers. (That is including the bogus "win" over Patterson".) Never heard anyone argue he should not be in.
Some never won a big fight. You might be surprised by how big of a list that you would have.

Johnson did at least win one huge one. He also had several wins over very good fighters.

he's boarderline, he'll never get in and it wont be an injustice even though he certainly has an argument

btw funny how inconsistent some people are with how valid they consider the 'good losing showing' argument to be

Who is being inconsistent and why do you say that?
I don't think that by itself, losing a great fight to a great fighter means someone should be in the Hall of Fame. Just don't think it should count against him.
As for Johnson, he does have the win over Galindez and some other decent wins. He is a borderline. I could see him getting some year where they need someone to get in. It will be spun as him being a 3x champion.

he's been retired going on 40 years, he doesnt have a shot. no one really gives a crap about him or mentions him anymore outside the fringe of fringe fans and each year ppl care less. its kind like a more out of date and forgotten marlin starling

if they are hard pressed for another name, i guarntee you that more well known/popular/fresh in the memory guys will get the nod even if less deserving., and we see it regularly now guys getting in who didnt earn it any more than marv did

Billy Miske was retired for 88 years when he got in. Nobody was screaming for him to get in. Same with Jake Kilrain and many others.
There is the Old Timers category. He certainly could make that.