BoxRec

Today on February 14th, 1951, the great Sugar Ray Robinson took the world middleweight crown from boxing great Jake LaMotta in Chicago, IL. Robinson won the title by a 13th round TKO stoppage.

It was their 6th and final fight of their rivalry. And up to that point, LaMotta was still THE ONLY MAN to beat Robinson. LaMotta beat Robinson in their second fight in Detroit, MI in 1943. But, Sugar Ray beat LaMotta 5 times of this rivalry.

At one time, LaMotta said that he fought Robinson so many times that he thought he had diabetes.

It was the first time in LaMotta's career that he was really stopped/knocked out. LaMotta suffered a KO loss earlier by Tiger Jack Fox in 1945, but the boxing commission investigation suggested that the fight was fixed and that LaMotta took a dive in an exchange for a title shot by champion Tony Zale of Gary, IN.

What are your thoughts of this fight?

Was it really a massacre?

Massacre is a legitimate assessment, at least after the eighth round.

It’s fair to argue that LaMotta could’ve been given the decision in their fifth bout, the one in ‘45.

One quibble: I think LaMotta’s prior knockout “loss” was to Billy Fox, not Tiger Jack Fox.

bwu wrote: ↑14 Feb 2021, 21:27 Massacre is a legitimate assessment, at least after the eighth round.

It’s fair to argue that LaMotta could’ve been given the decision in their fifth bout, the one in ‘45.

One quibble: I think LaMotta’s prior knockout “loss” was to Billy Fox, not Tiger Jack Fox.

Thanks for the information.

Also LaMotta's title shot was against Marcel Cerdan, not Tony Zale...

I thought I was seeing things when I read Gary Indiana instead of Paris, France..then I realized you mentioned Tony Zale

Other than that, excellent post!

AntonioMartin wrote: ↑17 Feb 2021, 02:04 Also LaMotta's title shot was against Marcel Cerdan, not Tony Zale...

I thought I was seeing things when I read Gary Indiana instead of Paris, France..then I realized you mentioned Tony Zale

Other than that, excellent post!

LaMotta was "stopped" by Billy Fox in 1945. Tony Zales was still the World Middleweight Boxing Champion.

elmersalsa wrote: ↑17 Feb 2021, 13:30

AntonioMartin wrote: ↑17 Feb 2021, 02:04 Also LaMotta's title shot was against Marcel Cerdan, not Tony Zale...

I thought I was seeing things when I read Gary Indiana instead of Paris, France..then I realized you mentioned Tony Zale

Other than that, excellent post!

LaMotta was "stopped" by Billy Fox in 1945. Tony Zales was still the World Middleweight Boxing Champion.

Oh yeah!! Zale then lost to Cerdan...

The movie definitely exaggerates how brutally Lamotta was beaten in this fight, but he definitely starts taking tremendous punishment late in the fight. He kinda gives his last hurrah in the 11th, and after that just seems completely flat. In the 12th he takes a brutal beating, and in the 13th seems more or less defenseless when the referee calls a halt to the bout.

He takes worse punishment in the 12th than he takes in the 13th, but the referee could just see that he had nothing left to give, and wisely stopped it.

elmersalsa wrote: ↑17 Feb 2021, 13:30

AntonioMartin wrote: ↑17 Feb 2021, 02:04 Also LaMotta's title shot was against Marcel Cerdan, not Tony Zale...

I thought I was seeing things when I read Gary Indiana instead of Paris, France..then I realized you mentioned Tony Zale

Other than that, excellent post!

LaMotta was "stopped" by Billy Fox in 1945. Tony Zales was still the World Middleweight Boxing Champion.

Not to get off topic, but is Billy Fox still alive? Nothing shows on his profile on here. Thank you in advance.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑18 Feb 2021, 16:22 The movie definitely exaggerates how brutally Lamotta was beaten in this fight, but he definitely starts taking tremendous punishment late in the fight. He kinda gives his last hurrah in the 11th, and after that just seems completely flat. In the 12th he takes a brutal beating, and in the 13th seems more or less defenseless when the referee calls a halt to the bout.

He takes worse punishment in the 12th than he takes in the 13th, but the referee could just see that he had nothing left to give, and wisely stopped it.

One thing I don't understand is, LaMotta not being the great(est) puncher, with a comparatively low knockout win percentage, drops Robinson, one of the greatest chins in boxing history, in their second bout!!!

Boxing can be unpredictable!!

AntonioMartin wrote: ↑18 Feb 2021, 19:34

gilgamesh wrote: ↑18 Feb 2021, 16:22 The movie definitely exaggerates how brutally Lamotta was beaten in this fight, but he definitely starts taking tremendous punishment late in the fight. He kinda gives his last hurrah in the 11th, and after that just seems completely flat. In the 12th he takes a brutal beating, and in the 13th seems more or less defenseless when the referee calls a halt to the bout.

He takes worse punishment in the 12th than he takes in the 13th, but the referee could just see that he had nothing left to give, and wisely stopped it.

One thing I don't understand is, LaMotta not being the great(est) puncher, with a comparatively low knockout win percentage, drops Robinson, one of the greatest chins in boxing history, in their second bout!!!

Boxing can be unpredictable!!

Well a straight up aggressive brawler is bound to land some heavy shots on you sometimes. Similarly Sumbu Kalambay went the distance with Mike McCallum who's a well known puncher, and Michael Nunn who's known more as a slick boxer type decked his ass in the 1st round.

That 1 perfect shot can happen anyone.

Jake Lamotta while not being known as a huge puncher wasn't exactly feather fisted either, and he was significantly bigger than Robinson in their earliest bouts. Robinson grew into the Middleweight division more and more as their series of fights went on.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑18 Feb 2021, 19:52

AntonioMartin wrote: ↑18 Feb 2021, 19:34

gilgamesh wrote: ↑18 Feb 2021, 16:22 The movie definitely exaggerates how brutally Lamotta was beaten in this fight, but he definitely starts taking tremendous punishment late in the fight. He kinda gives his last hurrah in the 11th, and after that just seems completely flat. In the 12th he takes a brutal beating, and in the 13th seems more or less defenseless when the referee calls a halt to the bout.

He takes worse punishment in the 12th than he takes in the 13th, but the referee could just see that he had nothing left to give, and wisely stopped it.

One thing I don't understand is, LaMotta not being the great(est) puncher, with a comparatively low knockout win percentage, drops Robinson, one of the greatest chins in boxing history, in their second bout!!!

Boxing can be unpredictable!!

Well a straight up aggressive brawler is bound to land some heavy shots on you sometimes. Similarly Sumbu Kalambay went the distance with Mike McCallum who's a well known puncher, and Michael Nunn who's known more as a slick boxer type decked his ass in the 1st round.

That 1 perfect shot can happen anyone.

Jake Lamotta while not being known as a huge puncher wasn't exactly feather fisted either, and he was significantly bigger than Robinson in their earliest bouts. Robinson grew into the Middleweight division more and more as their series of fights went on.

Yeah that is very true!

One of the things that I always thought was notable was the long interval between the fifth Robinson-LaMotta bout and the sixth one. The fifth bout was in September, 1945.

It's been a few years since I last searched, but has any film surfaced of any of the first five Robinson-LaMotta bouts?

DavidKehler wrote: ↑20 Feb 2021, 01:50 One of the things that I always thought was notable was the long interval between the fifth Robinson-LaMotta bout and the sixth one. The fifth bout was in September, 1945.

It's been a few years since I last searched, but has any film surfaced of any of the first five Robinson-LaMotta bouts?

I don't think that there are existing films. Maybe someone could come with a moracle, like the game 7 of 1960 World Series that was presumedly lost until someone found it in Bing Crosby's basement.