BoxRec

I listened to a podcast with former undefeated pro Tony Jeffries and he said he started boxing aged 10 up until he retired at 27 through hand injury and he guesses he's been punched in the head around 50,000 times (sparring, 106 amateur and 10 pro fights). He sounds very articulate with no obvious issues of trauma but he then mentioned he had a brain scan in America a few years ago as part of a large study and was found to have a split in the brain. He was told around 50% of fighters who took part in the study had this same split albeit without having any obvious medical issues. Jeffries is now a personal trainer / social media influencer and only allows body punching when he is training people.

So when you hear guys like James Toney, Tommy Hearns or Terry Norris slurring does it make you re-assess the sport at all?

I know when I was younger I always said if I had a son I'd want him to box, I certainly don't feel that way now.


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I struggle with it, honestly, and it does make me think an awful lot more needs to be done to look after the 95% or so of ex-boxers who don't earn enough to be set up for life.

Of course, given the boxing business is also perhaps the most brutally individualistic one in all of sport, good luck with that. Some sort of union for the boxers is required - every other major sport has one! - but when you have sociopaths like the Hearns and Don King running the show, it doesn't bode well.

If I had a son I think I would have liked him to box amateur, but certainly not pro, not unless he was so talented that a few million quid was a certainty.

dookus wrote: ↑18 Mar 2021, 11:47 I struggle with it, honestly, and it does make me think an awful lot more needs to be done to look after the 95% or so of ex-boxers who don't earn enough to be set up for life.

Of course, given the boxing business is also perhaps the most brutally individualistic one in all of sport, good luck with that. Some sort of union for the boxers is required - every other major sport has one! - but when you have sociopaths like the Hearns and Don King running the show, it doesn't bode well.

If I had a son I think I would have liked him to box amateur, but certainly not pro, not unless he was so talented that a few million quid was a certainty.

A bit harsh lumping the Hearns in with Don King!

I think this kind of research is going to show that most physical sports are bad long term for you. Football (with the amount of heading), Rugby with head impact and concussions and certainly boxing. Perhaps Brendan Ingle was bang on with his desire to heavily reduce headshots in sparring.

maverick23 wrote: ↑18 Mar 2021, 11:58
I think this kind of research is going to show that most physical sports are bad long term for you. Football (with the amount of heading), Rugby with head impact and concussions and certainly boxing. Perhaps Brendan Ingle was bang on with his desire to heavily reduce headshots in sparring.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc. ... d-51614088

Controversial wrote: ↑18 Mar 2021, 12:15

maverick23 wrote: ↑18 Mar 2021, 11:58
I think this kind of research is going to show that most physical sports are bad long term for you. Football (with the amount of heading), Rugby with head impact and concussions and certainly boxing. Perhaps Brendan Ingle was bang on with his desire to heavily reduce headshots in sparring.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc. ... d-51614088

Yeah - it’s probably the right decision too.

maverick23 wrote: ↑18 Mar 2021, 11:58

dookus wrote: ↑18 Mar 2021, 11:47 I struggle with it, honestly, and it does make me think an awful lot more needs to be done to look after the 95% or so of ex-boxers who don't earn enough to be set up for life.

Of course, given the boxing business is also perhaps the most brutally individualistic one in all of sport, good luck with that. Some sort of union for the boxers is required - every other major sport has one! - but when you have sociopaths like the Hearns and Don King running the show, it doesn't bode well.

If I had a son I think I would have liked him to box amateur, but certainly not pro, not unless he was so talented that a few million quid was a certainty.

A bit harsh lumping the Hearns in with Don King!

they're nicely presented sociopaths perhaps, but I don't think the description is that far off the mark.

dookus wrote: ↑18 Mar 2021, 11:47

Some sort of union for the boxers is required - every other major sport has one!

I think Nicky Piper might have tried to start a union but said they couldn’t get anyone to fork out to join, maybe they should be forced to donate a certain percentage of a gate or add a compulsory £1 fee onto a ticket that all goes into a pot.

Brendan Ingle has a sign in the gym that said "Boxing damages your health" says it all really.

Yeah, it’s something that makes me uncomfortable as a fan. I try not to think about it but you know it’s there.

i dont really question myself because the boxers choose to do it and know its a violent traumatic sport too. the vast huge majority dont suffer mcclellan type injuries and boxing in all ive seen makes a bigger positive difference for ppl than negtive.

im sure there is more that could be done for safety though. thats what i look at instead of worrying if im a cuntt for enjoying guys punching each other

I don't like it when refs are too slow to stop an obviously one-sided fight, whereby one boxer is getting a horrendous pasting. I don't like it when fans are hyper-critical when one fighter 'quits'.

Obviously it's sad when a fighter gets seriously injured/brain trauma, but it certainly doesn't make me reassess my love for the sport.

Counter-puncher wrote: ↑18 Mar 2021, 12:27

maverick23 wrote: ↑18 Mar 2021, 11:58

dookus wrote: ↑18 Mar 2021, 11:47 I struggle with it, honestly, and it does make me think an awful lot more needs to be done to look after the 95% or so of ex-boxers who don't earn enough to be set up for life.

Of course, given the boxing business is also perhaps the most brutally individualistic one in all of sport, good luck with that. Some sort of union for the boxers is required - every other major sport has one! - but when you have sociopaths like the Hearns and Don King running the show, it doesn't bode well.

If I had a son I think I would have liked him to box amateur, but certainly not pro, not unless he was so talented that a few million quid was a certainty.

A bit harsh lumping the Hearns in with Don King!

they're nicely presented sociopaths perhaps, but I don't think the description is that far off the mark.

We must have different opinions on what a sociopath is.

I liken it to a risk/reward scenario. The risk element being that most boxers do suffer brain damage, even if not all display actual symptoms. Damaged brain cells can't repair themselves. The reward is a broad category, probably well beyond monetary gain. Boxing gives a lot of younger people direction and focus, as well as achievements that might have otherwise eluded them in life. It's down to the individual to weigh it all up and decide.

polecateddy wrote: ↑18 Mar 2021, 15:44 I liken it to a risk/reward scenario. The risk element being that most boxers do suffer brain damage, even if not all display actual symptoms. Damaged brain cells can't repair themselves. The reward is a broad category, probably well beyond monetary gain. Boxing gives a lot of younger people direction and focus, as well as achievements that might have otherwise eluded them in life. It's down to the individual to weigh it all up and decide.

But could you not have the same rewards just with a safer approach to boxing, no head shots in sparring for example?

Controversial wrote: ↑18 Mar 2021, 15:46

polecateddy wrote: ↑18 Mar 2021, 15:44 I liken it to a risk/reward scenario. The risk element being that most boxers do suffer brain damage, even if not all display actual symptoms. Damaged brain cells can't repair themselves. The reward is a broad category, probably well beyond monetary gain. Boxing gives a lot of younger people direction and focus, as well as achievements that might have otherwise eluded them in life. It's down to the individual to weigh it all up and decide.

But could you not have the same rewards just with a safer approach to boxing, no head shots in sparring for example?

It always seemed a sensible and kind option I thought to hear about body only sparring in Brendan Ingle's gym. A lot of those boxers seemed pretty upbeat and healthy.

some fighters dont even throw body shots , or at least barely throw them, going body only seems like it would mess things up and not work with a lot of styles , though obvs the ingle gym has had great success.....but do they really do NO head sparring at all?

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑18 Mar 2021, 17:36 some fighters dont even throw body shots , or at least barely throw them, going body only seems like it would mess things up and not work with a lot of styles , though obvs the ingle gym has had great success.....but do they really do NO head sparring at all?

I think how it works, or did work, was that the members of the gym only body spar. But the top level fighters do full head sparring against sparring partners bought in to prepare for big fights. Seems sensible to me. Who wants brain damage? I guess boxing has a few parallels to steroid abuse in bodybuilders. The young chase the 'rewards,' and the middle aged person down the line perhaps regrets the 'risk' when health complications start to raise their head. The older I get, the less I like boxing. That's probably a normal outlook to have I guess?! Lol

ah, okay, that makes more sense, there surely has to be some head sparring

Don King walked in with McClellan, walked out with Benn. While McClellan was on a stretcher with oxygen being carried out into ambulance. King was not the least bit concerned. He was too busy bigging up Benn. After telling us all McClellan was the man beforehand.

Sick.

I have absolutely no doubt had Eubank beat Benn at Old Trafford as expected, King would’ve tried fixing it for Eubank to beat Nunn due to Eubank seeming so much more marketable in America than Nunn.

They’re the guys risking brain damage and the Don Kings are the ones running back to the bank taking massive cuts from dozens and hundreds of them over years and decades

i'd rather my kid did a martial art, where they experienced the sensation of getting the odd slap without repeated head trauma.

polecateddy wrote: ↑18 Mar 2021, 17:56
The young chase the 'rewards,' and the middle aged person down the line perhaps regrets the 'risk' when health complications start to raise their head. The older I get, the less I like boxing. That's probably a normal outlook to have I guess?

I’m definitely more conscious of health issues as I’m getting older. I still like boxing but am more aware of the corrupt side to the sport and dangers. I think most of us have criticised fighters for big paydays vs little risk or easy routes, when in actuality why takes risks with your health if you can be financially setup taking the easy road.

Steveh583 wrote: ↑18 Mar 2021, 18:37 i'd rather my kid did a martial art, where there experienced the sensation of getting the odd slap without repeated head trauma.

I agree

Controversial wrote: ↑18 Mar 2021, 18:57

polecateddy wrote: ↑18 Mar 2021, 17:56
The young chase the 'rewards,' and the middle aged person down the line perhaps regrets the 'risk' when health complications start to raise their head. The older I get, the less I like boxing. That's probably a normal outlook to have I guess?

I’m definitely more conscious of health issues as I’m getting older. I still like boxing but am more aware of the corrupt side to the sport and dangers. I think most of us have criticised fighters for big paydays vs little risk or easy routes, when in actuality why takes risks with your health if you can be financially setup taking the easy road.

Wow. Someone on this board with at least a grain of sense.

Got ,, absolutly NO DOUBTS whatsoever , boxing being hit in the head causes problems ,, also i firmly believe its the sparring , and even more so heavy sparring when your a kid ,,,, .