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Should marvin be 70-0
Posted: 02 Apr 2021, 19:23
by cfang
Was thinking about the late marvellous one and his 2 draws and 3 losses. They are all very debatable. He avenged the draws and 2 of the losses with only the leonard fight not avenged. I think he edged leonard, defo beat auntafermo. How dodgy are the earlier 2 losses and the draw with seales. Could marvin with a totally fair slate, been a 70 and 0 fighter?
Re: Should marvin be 70-0
Posted: 02 Apr 2021, 19:31
by evrenb
He lost fair and square to The Worm in fight one....
Re: Should marvin be 70-0
Posted: 02 Apr 2021, 20:02
by f read
I disagree. I thought Leonard won the decision. Also Willie The Worm did outpoint him as well. The few losses he suffered did not tarnish his legacy. He is still one of the greatest middleweights in boxing history. As mentioned the blemishes he did suffer other than to Leonard were avenged. Yes he is gone but not forgotten.
Re: Should marvin be 70-0
Posted: 02 Apr 2021, 20:09
by goose 5
He had 67 total pro bouts. Maybe he should be 67-0 but 70-0 isn't possible.
Re: Should marvin be 70-0
Posted: 02 Apr 2021, 20:39
by Onetimeonly
evrenb wrote: ↑02 Apr 2021, 19:31
He lost fair and square to The Worm in fight one....
Yup, I thought Leonard beat him too.
Re: Should marvin be 70-0
Posted: 03 Apr 2021, 04:32
by evrenb
Onetimeonly wrote: ↑02 Apr 2021, 20:39
evrenb wrote: ↑02 Apr 2021, 19:31
He lost fair and square to The Worm in fight one....
Yup, I thought Leonard beat him too.
Well that was controversial of course...I thought he beat Boogaloo in the other loss..I thought he just beat vito also though was close to be fair. Regardless I don't know where the 70-0 comes from as he only had 67 professional bouts???
Re: Should marvin be 70-0
Posted: 03 Apr 2021, 06:59
by Crease
I scored the fight against Leonard in his favour... I've watched it twice and both times had Marvin winning by 1 round.
But I have no argument if anyone scored it a draw or a narrow SRL victory...
Re: Should marvin be 70-0
Posted: 03 Apr 2021, 09:28
by Onetimeonly
evrenb wrote: ↑03 Apr 2021, 04:32
Onetimeonly wrote: ↑02 Apr 2021, 20:39
evrenb wrote: ↑02 Apr 2021, 19:31
He lost fair and square to The Worm in fight one....
Yup, I thought Leonard beat him too.
Well that was controversial of course...I thought he beat Boogaloo in the other loss..I thought he just beat vito also though was close to be fair. Regardless I don't know where the 70-0 comes from as he only had 67 professional bouts???
I thought he won at least 11 rounds against Vito.
Re: Should marvin be 70-0
Posted: 03 Apr 2021, 09:30
by evrenb
Onetimeonly wrote: ↑03 Apr 2021, 09:28
evrenb wrote: ↑03 Apr 2021, 04:32
Onetimeonly wrote: ↑02 Apr 2021, 20:39
Yup, I thought Leonard beat him too.
Well that was controversial of course...I thought he beat Boogaloo in the other loss..I thought he just beat vito also though was close to be fair. Regardless I don't know where the 70-0 comes from as he only had 67 professional bouts???
I thought he won at least 11 rounds against Vito.
I haven't scored it by rounds in many years....I remember it being close and not the biggest robbery ever....I would like to revisit it.
Re: Should marvin be 70-0
Posted: 03 Apr 2021, 10:19
by Seamus
I'll always remember the surreal moment in the 13th round of Antuofermo-Hagler I when Vito, who was dominating the round waved to the backpeddling Hagler to Come On And Fight ! Hagler may have landed the cleaner blows, but Antuofermo was punching him on the arms,back, driving in the shoulder at every opportunity, forcing Marvin back and it took it's toll in the second half of the fight.
Re: Should marvin be 70-0
Posted: 03 Apr 2021, 10:45
by Tony1244
Leonard-Hagler was like Holmes-Norton in the sense that the winner won the first half of the fight easily, but the second half of both fights were very close.
Re: Should marvin be 70-0
Posted: 03 Apr 2021, 13:02
by bwu
There seems to be no question that Hagler fairly lost the first Monroe fight. Everything else is at least arguable. Personally, I think he won Antuofermo I and lost against Leonard, but reasonable minds can disagree.
So to answer your question: No.
Re: Should marvin be 70-0
Posted: 03 Apr 2021, 21:10
by cfang
Yes sorry guys 67-0 and general view that willie the worm deserved that decision. Hey maybe 66-1 :-) rip marvin
bwu wrote: ↑03 Apr 2021, 13:02
There seems to be no question that Hagler fairly lost the first Monroe fight. Everything else is at least arguable. Personally, I think he won Antuofermo I and lost against Leonard, but reasonable minds can disagree.
So to answer your question: No.
Re: Should marvin be 70-0
Posted: 03 Apr 2021, 22:11
by Ambling Alp II
Tony1244 wrote: ↑03 Apr 2021, 10:45
Leonard-Hagler was like Holmes-Norton in the sense that the winner won the first half of the fight easily, but the second half of both fights were very close.
Some people actually think that the early rounds count.
Re: Should marvin be 70-0
Posted: 04 Apr 2021, 09:07
by Tony1244
Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑03 Apr 2021, 22:11
Tony1244 wrote: ↑03 Apr 2021, 10:45
Leonard-Hagler was like Holmes-Norton in the sense that the winner won the first half of the fight easily, but the second half of both fights were very close.
Some people actually think that the early rounds count.
I haven't watched those 2 fights in a long time, but that's why I had the winners winning by a round or 2.
Re: Should marvin be 70-0
Posted: 04 Apr 2021, 13:18
by goose 5
Hagler's first victory over Jimmy Owens was a controversial decision according to the local papers. The rematch was also controversial- a quick stoppage according to some.
Re: Should marvin be 70-0
Posted: 04 Apr 2021, 15:20
by Boxingnut
I thought he lost to Leonard as well.
Re: Should marvin be 70-0
Posted: 05 Apr 2021, 16:31
by bwu
cfang wrote: ↑03 Apr 2021, 21:10
Yes sorry guys 67-0 and general view that willie the worm deserved that decision. Hey maybe 66-1 :-) rip marvin
bwu wrote: ↑03 Apr 2021, 13:02
There seems to be no question that Hagler fairly lost the first Monroe fight. Everything else is at least arguable. Personally, I think he won Antuofermo I and lost against Leonard, but reasonable minds can disagree.
So to answer your question: No.
You have nothing for which to apologize. It was an interesting question which started a good discussion.
Re: Should marvin be 70-0
Posted: 05 Apr 2021, 17:35
by dr_devious
I thought he beat SRL by 2 rounds. The Antuofermo draw was a robbery. Not seen his other defeats and draws.
Re: Should marvin be 70-0
Posted: 05 Apr 2021, 19:34
by giacomino
Seamus wrote: ↑03 Apr 2021, 10:19
I'll always remember the surreal moment in the 13th round of Antuofermo-Hagler I when Vito, who was dominating the round waved to the backpeddling Hagler to Come On And Fight ! Hagler may have landed the cleaner blows, but Antuofermo was punching him on the arms,back, driving in the shoulder at every opportunity, forcing Marvin back and it took it's toll in the second half of the fight.
I kind of remember it the same way. It wasn’t an 11-4 or 12-3 fight people think it was. I thought Hagler nicked it but Vito fought his heart out and pushed Marvin back a good bit in that fight. I thought the Minter “victory” to take the title from Vito was far more dodgy. (Roland Dakin’s 149-137 score for Minter - who was ruled to have been knocked down in the fight - remains the worst scorecard of any fight I’ve seen)
Re: Should marvin be 70-0
Posted: 07 Apr 2021, 15:41
by klompton
No. His loss to Monroe was well deserved. His draw against Seales could have easily gone to Seales. He legitimately lost to Leonard (Im not sure how his fanboys can twist their minds into believing he deserved that fight when he gave away the first four rounds of a twelve rounder with one of the stupidest big fight strategies you will ever see) and got a gift early on against Jimmy Owens (even the second fight where he won on a DQ against Owens was even when the ref stopped the fight in a move the Boston Globe called a gift to Hagler). His record is just fine where it stands.
Re: Should marvin be 70-0
Posted: 08 Apr 2021, 21:01
by f read
klompton wrote: ↑07 Apr 2021, 15:41
No. His loss to Monroe was well deserved. His draw against Seales could have easily gone to Seales. He legitimately lost to Leonard (Im not sure how his fanboys can twist their minds into believing he deserved that fight when he gave away the first four rounds of a twelve rounder with one of the stupidest big fight strategies you will ever see) and got a gift early on against Jimmy Owens (even the second fight where he won on a DQ against Owens was even when the ref stopped the fight in a move the Boston Globe called a gift to Hagler). His record is just fine where it stands.
Agreed. His legacy is not tarnished with or without these losses he still remains one of the greatest middleweights in boxing history.
Re: Should marvin be 70-0
Posted: 13 Apr 2021, 12:08
by cfang
Yes I'd go with 65 1 1 i think
Re: Should marvin be 70-0
Posted: 13 Apr 2021, 12:09
by cfang
bwu wrote: ↑05 Apr 2021, 16:31
cfang wrote: ↑03 Apr 2021, 21:10
Yes sorry guys 67-0 and general view that willie the worm deserved that decision. Hey maybe 66-1 :-) rip marvin
bwu wrote: ↑03 Apr 2021, 13:02
There seems to be no question that Hagler fairly lost the first Monroe fight. Everything else is at least arguable. Personally, I think he won Antuofermo I and lost against Leonard, but reasonable minds can disagree.
So to answer your question: No.
You have nothing for which to apologize. It was an interesting question which started a good discussion.
Thanks mate
Re: Should marvin be 70-0
Posted: 15 Apr 2021, 21:23
by f read
Today is the 36th anniversary of Hagler-Hearns. This may have been Haglers greatest moment. It was certainly a fight for the ages.