Canelo and GGG where do they rate at middle?
Posted: 03 Apr 2021, 21:19
Definitely the two best middles of their era and the best since hopkins. Before that youve got to go back to marvin perhaps. Both in the 8-15 range all time?
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Canelo and GGG where do they rate at middle?
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Re: Canelo and GGG where do they rate at middle?
Posted: 03 Apr 2021, 21:30
They ain't retired. This is the kinda question you ask when all is said and done.
Re: Canelo and GGG where do they rate at middle?
Posted: 05 Apr 2021, 11:15
Re: Canelo and GGG where do they rate at middle?
Posted: 05 Apr 2021, 13:02
See my above post
Re: Canelo and GGG where do they rate at middle?
Posted: 05 Apr 2021, 13:17
As middleweights both are better than Hopkins already.
Re: Canelo and GGG where do they rate at middle?
Posted: 05 Apr 2021, 13:34
Re: Canelo and GGG where do they rate at middle?
Posted: 05 Apr 2021, 13:50
Re: Canelo and GGG where do they rate at middle?
Posted: 05 Apr 2021, 14:52
Hopkins handed the unbeaten Glen Johnson his first defeat as Champion, he stopped Tito Trinidad and Oscar De La Hoya. He beat back the challenge of William Joppy and Howard Eastman who going into the fight were his #1 contenders.
I would assume Antwun Echols was highly rated as well.
And he won all the major belts, and was Undisputed Middleweight Champion.
He was Middleweight Champion for near 10 years.
Re: Canelo and GGG where do they rate at middle?
Posted: 05 Apr 2021, 15:30
Johnson was a tough fringe contender. Jacobs is better than him. The best version of Trinidad was at the lower weights. De La Hoya was also not at his weight and he fading in addition to that, coming off a loss to Sturm. Probably even the Johnson win was better than the ODLH one.gilgamesh wrote: ↑05 Apr 2021, 14:52Hopkins handed the unbeaten Glen Johnson his first defeat as Champion, he stopped Tito Trinidad and Oscar De La Hoya. He beat back the challenge of William Joppy and Howard Eastman who going into the fight were his #1 contenders.
I would assume Antwun Echols was highly rated as well.
And he won all the major belts, and was Undisputed Middleweight Champion.
He was Middleweight Champion for near 10 years.
Those joppies and echolses were on about the same level as different oumas, lemieuxes and rosados. Both Golovkin and Hopkins were kings of relatively weak eras. Golovkin is at least a solid boxer in comparison to the dirty Hopkins. Moreover, Golovkin deserved a win over Canelo in their 1st bout.
Golovkin and Canelo are worthy of each other, both of them have more class than Hopkins. Canelo's resume in the MW division is tiny, but his win in the 2nd bout against Golovkin is much bigger than any win of Hopkins.
Re: Canelo and GGG where do they rate at middle?
Posted: 05 Apr 2021, 15:40
lol howard eastman , wtf, for sure i rate bhop higher at mw but seriously bruh, howard eastman?
btw, at mw, 'lix sturm > oscar
btw, at mw, 'lix sturm > oscar
Re: Canelo and GGG where do they rate at middle?
Posted: 05 Apr 2021, 15:44
echols vs dave lemieux, now that woulda been a fire fight
Re: Canelo and GGG where do they rate at middle?
Posted: 05 Apr 2021, 19:06
Canelo didn't deserve either Hopkins win.DrDuke wrote: ↑05 Apr 2021, 15:30Johnson was a tough fringe contender. Jacobs is better than him. The best version of Trinidad was at the lower weights. De La Hoya was also not at his weight and he fading in addition to that, coming off a loss to Sturm. Probably even the Johnson win was better than the ODLH one.gilgamesh wrote: ↑05 Apr 2021, 14:52Hopkins handed the unbeaten Glen Johnson his first defeat as Champion, he stopped Tito Trinidad and Oscar De La Hoya. He beat back the challenge of William Joppy and Howard Eastman who going into the fight were his #1 contenders.
I would assume Antwun Echols was highly rated as well.
And he won all the major belts, and was Undisputed Middleweight Champion.
He was Middleweight Champion for near 10 years.
Those joppies and echolses were on about the same level as different oumas, lemieuxes and rosados. Both Golovkin and Hopkins were kings of relatively weak eras. Golovkin is at least a solid boxer in comparison to the dirty Hopkins. Moreover, Golovkin deserved a win over Canelo in their 1st bout.
Golovkin and Canelo are worthy of each other, both of them have more class than Hopkins. Canelo's resume in the MW division is tiny, but his win in the 2nd bout against Golovkin is much bigger than any win of Hopkins.
Ouma and Lemieux are arguably as good of wins as Joppy and Echols, but no better.
When Hopkins fought the superstars from the smaller weight classes, he knocked them out. When GGG fought Canelo, he didn't.
Therefore Hopkins wins the legacy debate.
I personally wouldn't rank Golovkin far below Hopkins, but he would rank below him.
Canelo I'd rank well below Hopkins. I don't really recognize his Middleweight Championship reign as a major one because his biggest win at the weight class he didn't deserve.
Re: Canelo and GGG where do they rate at middle?
Posted: 05 Apr 2021, 19:07
Eastman was ranked #1 going into the Hopkins fight. I realize Eastman is no all time great, but his ranking at the time means he was the most legit guy Hopkins could've been facing at that time.margaret thatcher wrote: ↑05 Apr 2021, 15:40 lol howard eastman , wtf, for sure i rate bhop higher at mw but seriously bruh, howard eastman?
btw, at mw, 'lix sturm > oscar
Re: Canelo and GGG where do they rate at middle?
Posted: 05 Apr 2021, 19:29
Re: Canelo and GGG where do they rate at middle?
Posted: 05 Apr 2021, 21:08
BroughtonRulesRefuge wrote: ↑05 Apr 2021, 19:29
- Both definitive 70-0 HOFers guaranteed to finish 80-0 over 70-0 Marv...next!!!
Who are you and what have you done with BroughtonRulesRefuge?
Shortest post ever from you.
Re: Canelo and GGG where do they rate at middle?
Posted: 05 Apr 2021, 21:14
ranked #1 by sanctioning body stuff, that i know you like so much. he was never actually the legit best guy in the world outside hopkinsgilgamesh wrote: ↑05 Apr 2021, 19:07Eastman was ranked #1 going into the Hopkins fight. I realize Eastman is no all time great, but his ranking at the time means he was the most legit guy Hopkins could've been facing at that time.margaret thatcher wrote: ↑05 Apr 2021, 15:40 lol howard eastman , wtf, for sure i rate bhop higher at mw but seriously bruh, howard eastman?
btw, at mw, 'lix sturm > oscar
Re: Canelo and GGG where do they rate at middle?
Posted: 05 Apr 2021, 21:35
Ggg reign at mw is less impressive than hopkins. Similar in terms of longevity and lackluster competition - morrade hakkaar, dominic wade - yikes
Canelo beat cotto, drew with GGG and beat GGG - short resume but better wins than either bhop or ggg (officially)
Canelo beat cotto, drew with GGG and beat GGG - short resume but better wins than either bhop or ggg (officially)
Re: Canelo and GGG where do they rate at middle?
Posted: 05 Apr 2021, 23:16
Golovkin also KOed Brook. But with Canelo it's a specific case, he's not a small guy, despite the fact of coming from the lower class.gilgamesh wrote: ↑05 Apr 2021, 19:06Canelo didn't deserve either Hopkins win.DrDuke wrote: ↑05 Apr 2021, 15:30Johnson was a tough fringe contender. Jacobs is better than him. The best version of Trinidad was at the lower weights. De La Hoya was also not at his weight and he fading in addition to that, coming off a loss to Sturm. Probably even the Johnson win was better than the ODLH one.gilgamesh wrote: ↑05 Apr 2021, 14:52
Hopkins handed the unbeaten Glen Johnson his first defeat as Champion, he stopped Tito Trinidad and Oscar De La Hoya. He beat back the challenge of William Joppy and Howard Eastman who going into the fight were his #1 contenders.
I would assume Antwun Echols was highly rated as well.
And he won all the major belts, and was Undisputed Middleweight Champion.
He was Middleweight Champion for near 10 years.
Those joppies and echolses were on about the same level as different oumas, lemieuxes and rosados. Both Golovkin and Hopkins were kings of relatively weak eras. Golovkin is at least a solid boxer in comparison to the dirty Hopkins. Moreover, Golovkin deserved a win over Canelo in their 1st bout.
Golovkin and Canelo are worthy of each other, both of them have more class than Hopkins. Canelo's resume in the MW division is tiny, but his win in the 2nd bout against Golovkin is much bigger than any win of Hopkins.
Ouma and Lemieux are arguably as good of wins as Joppy and Echols, but no better.
When Hopkins fought the superstars from the smaller weight classes, he knocked them out. When GGG fought Canelo, he didn't.
Therefore Hopkins wins the legacy debate.
I personally wouldn't rank Golovkin far below Hopkins, but he would rank below him.
Canelo I'd rank well below Hopkins. I don't really recognize his Middleweight Championship reign as a major one because his biggest win at the weight class he didn't deserve.
Canelo's win over Golovkin in the 2nd bout can be recognized as a close one. The 1st fight was a robbery, yes.
Re: Canelo and GGG where do they rate at middle?
Posted: 05 Apr 2021, 23:21
funny enough wade was a bit of a stud as an amateur, i saw him fight porter and he dropped him twice and hurt him repeatedly but eventually got dq'd. looked destined for good things. wonder why a guy like that can turn out to be such a mediocre pro, seeing him as a pro youd never guess he once looked the biznessJeff_lacy_ko wrote: ↑05 Apr 2021, 21:35 Ggg reign at mw is less impressive than hopkins. Similar in terms of longevity and lackluster competition - morrade hakkaar, dominic wade - yikes
Canelo beat cotto, drew with GGG and beat GGG - short resume but better wins than either bhop or ggg (officially)
Re: Canelo and GGG where do they rate at middle?
Posted: 05 Apr 2021, 23:25
Drug problem?margaret thatcher wrote: ↑05 Apr 2021, 23:21funny enough wade was a bit of a stud as an amateur, i saw him fight porter and he dropped him twice and hurt him repeatedly but eventually got dq'd. looked destined for good things. wonder why a guy like that can turn out to be such a mediocre pro, seeing him as a pro youd never guess he once looked the biznessJeff_lacy_ko wrote: ↑05 Apr 2021, 21:35 Ggg reign at mw is less impressive than hopkins. Similar in terms of longevity and lackluster competition - morrade hakkaar, dominic wade - yikes
Canelo beat cotto, drew with GGG and beat GGG - short resume but better wins than either bhop or ggg (officially)
Re: Canelo and GGG where do they rate at middle?
Posted: 05 Apr 2021, 23:26
could be, i do know he has various perosnal issues and been in and out of jail/court
Re: Canelo and GGG where do they rate at middle?
Posted: 05 Apr 2021, 23:33
I remember him "winning" against old shot sam soliman
Re: Canelo and GGG where do they rate at middle?
Posted: 05 Apr 2021, 23:37
ya he got a gift, think that one got him the mandatory ggg shot
Re: Canelo and GGG where do they rate at middle?
Posted: 06 Apr 2021, 09:43
Golovkin is higher, as he did more at the weight, and past-prime really defeated Canelo at least once, probably twice. Canelo pissing fire also is an ** especially when you consider he very seldom dominated good opponents.
I wouldn't think Golovkin is top 20 at middleweight though. On the fringes perhaps, but maybe if we go head-to-head, he ranks a little higher?
I wouldn't think Golovkin is top 20 at middleweight though. On the fringes perhaps, but maybe if we go head-to-head, he ranks a little higher?
Re: Canelo and GGG where do they rate at middle?
Posted: 06 Apr 2021, 17:25
The guys id rank higher than ggg and canelo at middle
greb, srr, langford, monzon, marvin
After that im not sure. ketchell, walker, lamotta, cerdan, steele, griffith, bhop, valdez but its close with these guys,
What counts against canelo is quite a short middle career and with ggg its quality of opp. they are both truly great fighters though and would expect ggg to end up 6-10 and with canelo similar but it depends on where hes placed. He may spend the rest of his career at super midd and lt heavy perhaps.
greb, srr, langford, monzon, marvin
After that im not sure. ketchell, walker, lamotta, cerdan, steele, griffith, bhop, valdez but its close with these guys,
What counts against canelo is quite a short middle career and with ggg its quality of opp. they are both truly great fighters though and would expect ggg to end up 6-10 and with canelo similar but it depends on where hes placed. He may spend the rest of his career at super midd and lt heavy perhaps.