BoxRec

squiggy wrote: ↑16 Jul 2021, 08:48 It's unfortunate what happens to the legacy of Michael Spinks, who in fact was a "high caliber fighter."

Boxtune wrote: ↑16 Jul 2021, 10:49Do you know what " high caliber means" ?

Boxtune wrote: ↑16 Jul 2021, 08:06 Tyson Lose to Douglas was fluke. Then why it happened !!!?

I started watching boxing in 1984 because of Mike Tyson and followed his career very closely.
After Beating Larry Holmes ( Tyson was scared and trained very hard for that fight) , his next 4
opponents Tubbs, Spinks, Bruno and Williams were not high caliber fighters (there were all step
down, but two had names) and made Tyson Looked still look good, while Tyson wasn't serious
about his Training like he used to.

He took his training serious again after lose to Buster Douglas , and his fight against Alex Stewart and
Ruddock 1st fight was brutal, but his second fight with Ruddock he didn't train as hard and then 3 years
in Jail, and that's was end of everything.

I always looked at Tyson Back muscle definitions, when he trained hard, you could see a lot separation on his back.

Boxtune wrote: ↑16 Jul 2021, 10:49

squiggy wrote: ↑16 Jul 2021, 08:48 It's unfortunate what happens to the legacy of Michael Spinks, who in fact was a "high caliber fighter."

Do you know what " high caliber means" ? Light heavyweight Spinks was very over rated ... His only achievement was going distance with not prime Holmes.

The reason Tyson Lost against Buster Douglas, was they pumped these easy opponents. Prime Tony Tucker was best opponents that Tyson face before that and Tucker believed the fight should have been a draw.

Actually Tyson Pre jail era ,,, there were no tough opponents, until like of holyfield, Bow and Lewis came along

apollo creed wrote: ↑16 Jul 2021, 07:24 I don't know if Mike had or not a rematch clause when he fought Douglas but imo Mike should've tried to avenge that loss asap. I know that Douglas fought Holy next but no matter what that loss of Mike should've been avenged like Lennox did with McCall, Holy and Rahman. That's how a true champion does!

Since 1990-02-11 till 1991-06-28 Mike had enough time to rematch Douglas and then go after Holyfield but Mike fought Tillman, Stewart and Ruddock x 2 times. Anyway no matter what year was, imo Mike should've tried to rematch Douglas.

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑16 Jul 2021, 11:29

apollo creed wrote: ↑16 Jul 2021, 07:24 I don't know if Mike had or not a rematch clause when he fought Douglas but imo Mike should've tried to avenge that loss asap. I know that Douglas fought Holy next but no matter what that loss of Mike should've been avenged like Lennox did with McCall, Holy and Rahman. That's how a true champion does!

Since 1990-02-11 till 1991-06-28 Mike had enough time to rematch Douglas and then go after Holyfield but Mike fought Tillman, Stewart and Ruddock x 2 times. Anyway no matter what year was, imo Mike should've tried to rematch Douglas.

Holyfield was the mandatory challenger of all three organizations and had been for several years.

Don King also tried to overturn Douglas’s victory over Mike Tyson.

There was no immediate rematch clause in place granting Tyson the right to face Douglas again.

When Holyfield beat Douglas, Tyson’s handlers lost interest in the rematch against Buster.

apollo creed wrote: ↑16 Jul 2021, 11:00

Boxtune wrote: ↑16 Jul 2021, 08:06 Tyson Lose to Douglas was fluke. Then why it happened !!!?

I started watching boxing in 1984 because of Mike Tyson and followed his career very closely.
After Beating Larry Holmes ( Tyson was scared and trained very hard for that fight) , his next 4
opponents Tubbs, Spinks, Bruno and Williams were not high caliber fighters (there were all step
down, but two had names) and made Tyson Looked still look good, while Tyson wasn't serious
about his Training like he used to.

He took his training serious again after lose to Buster Douglas , and his fight against Alex Stewart and
Ruddock 1st fight was brutal, but his second fight with Ruddock he didn't train as hard and then 3 years
in Jail, and that's was end of everything.

I always looked at Tyson Back muscle definitions, when he trained hard, you could see a lot separation on his back.

I think people are trying too hard to find Tyson lots of excuses and I'm pretty sure that Lennox, Holyfield, Holmes, Ali, Foreman and Fraizer had their ups and downs, their crazy times with parties and all that 'nasty' things but they strove to prove more as champions!

Imo the fights that tells us how good or not Tyson was, are against Tony Tucker and Douglas. I looked at Mike's resume and he had a few quality opponents like Tucker and Douglas when he was in his 'prime'. The rest of his opponents where weak opposition or washed up old-former champions. Holy and Lennox were just business/cash in fights for Tyson.

Imho Mike should've pushed to rematch Buster Douglas for his pride as a champion. Or maybe him and his handlers saw that Buster had his number and went on another route to get him back on track and make $?

snake33 wrote: ↑16 Jul 2021, 13:24 Mike Tyson lost to Douglas because he was crazy from marriage problems and lazy enough to fire his trainer.
Once Kevin Rooney was gone, Mike didn't have to work as hard. And Tyson's style was built on hard work.
Also, Mike was lured in by Don King and that was bad on a lot of levels. King had no morals and stole like
it was free Friday.

snake33 wrote: ↑16 Jul 2021, 13:24 Mike Tyson lost to Douglas because he was crazy from marriage problems and lazy enough to fire his trainer.
Once Kevin Rooney was gone, Mike didn't have to work as hard. And Tyson's style was built on hard work.
Also, Mike was lured in by Don King and that was bad on a lot of levels. King had no morals and stole like
it was free Friday.

Thomastearns wrote: ↑16 Jul 2021, 16:22

snake33 wrote: ↑16 Jul 2021, 13:24 Mike Tyson lost to Douglas because he was crazy from marriage problems and lazy enough to fire his trainer.
Once Kevin Rooney was gone, Mike didn't have to work as hard. And Tyson's style was built on hard work.
Also, Mike was lured in by Don King and that was bad on a lot of levels. King had no morals and stole like
it was free Friday.

It's all there in the autobiography.

King was even paying people healthy sums of money to befriend Mike and get him to sign for him.

Don King was a real pos (casually using race to divide and conquer - a well known tactic that seems to work to this day) or clever businessman if you prefer.

He tried similar tactics with Ali previously but Tyson didn't have the Nation of Islam watching carefully the way Ali did).

The dismissal of Rooney might well be the single greatest bad decision ever made by a fighter.

Tyson was never the same afterwards. Perhaps the single biggest lapse was the loss of his sublime head movement developed in better times by Cus D'Amato.

Marrying the twin headed monster (Robin Givens and her mum) was also up there.

As they say, follow the money.

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑16 Jul 2021, 22:56

Thomastearns wrote: ↑16 Jul 2021, 16:22

snake33 wrote: ↑16 Jul 2021, 13:24 Mike Tyson lost to Douglas because he was crazy from marriage problems and lazy enough to fire his trainer.
Once Kevin Rooney was gone, Mike didn't have to work as hard. And Tyson's style was built on hard work.
Also, Mike was lured in by Don King and that was bad on a lot of levels. King had no morals and stole like
it was free Friday.

It's all there in the autobiography.

King was even paying people healthy sums of money to befriend Mike and get him to sign for him.

Don King was a real pos (casually using race to divide and conquer - a well known tactic that seems to work to this day) or clever businessman if you prefer.

He tried similar tactics with Ali previously but Tyson didn't have the Nation of Islam watching carefully the way Ali did).

The dismissal of Rooney might well be the single greatest bad decision ever made by a fighter.

Tyson was never the same afterwards. Perhaps the single biggest lapse was the loss of his sublime head movement developed in better times by Cus D'Amato.

Marrying the twin headed monster (Robin Givens and her mum) was also up there.

As they say, follow the money.

did robin lie about the rape do you think?

apollo creed wrote: ↑16 Jul 2021, 07:24 I don't know if Mike had or not a rematch clause when he fought Douglas

Boxtune wrote: ↑16 Jul 2021, 14:03

snake33 wrote: ↑16 Jul 2021, 13:24 Mike Tyson lost to Douglas because he was crazy from marriage problems and lazy enough to fire his trainer.
Once Kevin Rooney was gone, Mike didn't have to work as hard. And Tyson's style was built on hard work.
Also, Mike was lured in by Don King and that was bad on a lot of levels. King had no morals and stole like
it was free Friday.

20 years old Tyson beats any other 20 Years old HW in the history, Not even close.
Like You said, Tyson Never got chance to bloom at later age, due to lake of training
, personal Problems and changes happened in his camp Team.

SportsRatings wrote: ↑17 Jul 2021, 19:04

apollo creed wrote: ↑16 Jul 2021, 07:24 I don't know if Mike had or not a rematch clause when he fought Douglas

Did anyone back then? When did the rematch clause become common, the 90s? 2000s?

In any case, I doubt Tyson ever had a rematch clause since he was expected to win every time out.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑17 Jul 2021, 19:46

Boxtune wrote: ↑16 Jul 2021, 14:03

snake33 wrote: ↑16 Jul 2021, 13:24 Mike Tyson lost to Douglas because he was crazy from marriage problems and lazy enough to fire his trainer.
Once Kevin Rooney was gone, Mike didn't have to work as hard. And Tyson's style was built on hard work.
Also, Mike was lured in by Don King and that was bad on a lot of levels. King had no morals and stole like
it was free Friday.

20 years old Tyson beats any other 20 Years old HW in the history, Not even close.
Like You said, Tyson Never got chance to bloom at later age, due to lake of training
, personal Problems and changes happened in his camp Team.

Tyson never beats holy field.

snake33 wrote: ↑17 Jul 2021, 23:15

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑17 Jul 2021, 19:46

Boxtune wrote: ↑16 Jul 2021, 14:03

20 years old Tyson beats any other 20 Years old HW in the history, Not even close.
Like You said, Tyson Never got chance to bloom at later age, due to lake of training
, personal Problems and changes happened in his camp Team.

Tyson never beats holy field.

I don't know. If Rooney was still around Tyson would have been fit and focused and not desperate.
Holyfield could get buzzed by a good punch, it just took skill to get to the target.

ldlamb wrote: ↑18 Jul 2021, 01:42 Well, I mean…20 yr old Holyfield was a 175 lb amateur, so 20 yr old Tyson might have had a shot,