BoxRec

Right we have now seen on two occasions that scott has been badly exposed. so what can be done now? is that all he will ever be a second rate champ? whos only where he is due to his massive weight and strengh advantage...

Do you think he needs a change of trainer ? im no saying dump his dad completly but maybe its for the best his dads took him as far as he will go. no offence to his dad he didnt conquer the world as a pro himslef so maybe there is only so much he does know.
I think it could be good for scott maybe he could learn some more tools/? take him that bit further or is it all too late??

Freddie Roach was no world beater but makes a fantastic trainer, same for Goosen, whereas Buddy McGirt could do it all in the ring and has transitioned well to training fighters.

Training fighters is not the same as being a fighter yourself. I dunno if a change of trainer is what is needed, I just feel at this stage Harrison is what he is. Get the big fight ASAP before the cart gets upset in a routine fight.

He could maybe test the waters at 9st4 against Gomez? I think that would make for a good spectacle/big gate.

I don't think it's that he hasn't been trained correctly. His corner were screaming at him to move his head/jab etc, he just wasn't doing it. Unfortunately, I don't think Harrison is mentally that agile, he is good at what he does, but he doesn't seem to adapt well in there. He spent the entire first fight against Medina, and the fight against Polo chasing his man hoping to nail him with lead hooks.

If he hadn't managed to catch Medina early in the rematch, I wonder whether things would have turned out the same as the first fight, because in the middle rounds, Medina had a lot of success, but I think the initial onslaught took enough out of him for Harrison to break him down. Considering that he'd also had a fight to work out Medina's style too, and you have to say that Harrison is a guy who needs to be able to get on top early to prevail.

The fact is there is something inherently wrong with Scott's style....he has no jab. He waves it in front of his opponents face like a bag of sweeties and then leads with the right hand..

His combos are slow and predictable although they do register when they land. Scott is a strong, fit and has heart but against a decent boxer with speed and intellegence he is screwed.

I've said it before, Scott is too old to change his style which is an open target to the likes of Marquez, Morales and Barrera.

On the prospect of fighting gomez I actually think he could do a number on gomez who has never been the cleverest of boxers himself and would leave himself open.

Scott would probably be every bit as strong as Gomez at Sr Feather, and has a better chin too. I think it would be a great fight, but can see Gomez getting broken down. Wouldn't make Harrison a huge favourite though.

I think scott would kill gomez leave him in pieces, hes so so strong and powerful, christ alex arthur had him going after he had been battered about for 4 rounds think of how much scott woud hurt him, scott tko inside 5 rounds,

The only reason I'm not totally convinced is that Harrison has never fought at Sr Feather, so his power may not translate that well at the weight.

I'm not sure that Scott has gone so far down the road that he couldn't tweak the way he fights in order to become more effective. He's got to look at the example set recently by Gatti (although that's perhaps more a case of a fighter rediscovering how to fight a certain way). It is possible to have a change in style (albeit a minor one), even towards the twilight of a career.

However, Harrison lacks the natural gifts of someone like Gatti. Scott's problem is a lack of speed, both of hand and foot, coupled with basic errors like a lack of upper-body and head movement. I don't think the solution will be as simple as just a change of trainer. No matter who comes in, regardless of whether it's Roach, McGirt, or whoever, they will not be able to turn a one-paced plodder into a boxer capable of mixing it with Barrera, Morales, Pacquiao, or Marquez.

The best that could be done are small modifications; he just doesn't have enough raw ability for an overhaul. Personally, I don't know if I'd like to see him ditch his father totally, but there needs to be a concerted effort to work on the defensive side of things, because I think that's where he's got to start, otherwise he's going to get beaten up badly by the elite. If he could just be a little harder to hit, it'd be a good start. I'd go so far as to suggest that he should at least look at bringing in an experienced world-level coach just to help out during training, and get a fresh perspective on things.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:The only reason I'm not totally convinced is that Harrison has never fought at Sr Feather, so his power may not translate that well at the weight.

Agree with that. I'm sure he'd have the power to dispose of the likes of Gomez, but I'm not sure Harrison can move up in the same way that, say, Morales or Pacman have done. The strength is there, I'm sure, but he's not a real puncher, I don't think. Looking back to the McCullough fight: Yes, it was a fine display, and we all know how granite-chinned Wayne is, but I'm not sure he'd still have been standing if Hamed or Morales had been landing those shots. Probably not great examples, because they are big punchers, but hopefully you see the point.

Well to be fair, Hamed and Morales in their primes couldn't put him away either, but perhaps they would have put away that version of McCulloch. McCulloch is not the best example.

However, I don't think he would hit that hard at featherweight, unless of course the freedom of having those extra few pounds on him augmented his strength. The problem is that technically he's not a puncher, no matter how strong he is.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Well to be fair, Hamed and Morales in their primes couldn't put him away either, but perhaps they would have put away that version of McCulloch. McCulloch is not the best example.

However, I don't think he would hit that hard at featherweight, unless of course the freedom of having those extra few pounds on him augmented his strength. The problem is that technically he's not a puncher, no matter how strong he is.

I should have worded that better. What I meant was that neither Hamed nor Morales could put McCullough away, but neither of them were able to hit him as often, because Wayne was somewhat faded by the time Harrison got to him. If Either of them could have landed as flush, as often, Wayne would have gone, I imagine.

Either way, I agree: I don't deny Harrison's strength, but he's not a real puncher.

Scott indeed needs to add something to his fighting makeup if he wishes to beat the other top 9st or even 9st 4lbs fighter. What Scott Harrison does he does very well but he lacks variety in his punches.

He also needs as others have said move his body and head a little more and improving his ability to cut off the ring would do wonders for him. Scott has the strength and heart to give any Featherweight a real tough fight. But in order to win the big ones I now feel he needs to add more weapons to his arsenal.

As far as his trainer Peter, I would be shocked if Scott left him to be honest. I may be wrong here but when Peter Harrison turned pro I think he may have had already one eye on being a pro trainer and one of the reasons in having his own pro career was to gain the relevant experience and earn future 'pupils' respect.

Scott Harrison would be unbeatable if he could box or fight or punch or didn't mark up or didn't move like a robot or was any good or wasn't crap.

He would be unstoppable !

I think its gone beyond a new trainer. Its different to Alex Arthur who "neglected" his defence or Arturo Gatti who failed to take advatange of his handspeed pre McGirt. The basics were there for these guys, just their new coaches have simply fined tuned them. I know it looks like a huge change in Gatti, but it was always there.

Scott, I don't think, has ever had good handspeed or good head movement and its hard to teach a fighter new tricks - especially as he has been so successful his way.

Scott has done very well, but I think has taken him as far as his natural talent can get him. There are other similar level fighter who I believe could have improved to a futher level had they had a Goosen or Buddy McGirt to work on their natural ability (Steve Robinson particularly).

What about Harrisons sparring...I think Harrison lacks what most of the top brits lack...true top quality sparring...thats not to say that i think Scott could be the greatest or whatever...expierience is key....especially in a sport like boxing.

I do not agree that Harrison has been "exposed twice". Assuming the first exposure to be Medina 1, he was simply ill as was evidenced by the wholly different performance in the rematch where Medina had to use every dirty trick in the book simply to survive.

As for the comment that Harrison only beats bums, read his record again.
Chacon, McCulloch, Medina, Polo, are not bums.

To have your left eye shut when fighting a rangy southpaw is the pits for any boxer.

The fight stats had the punches landed about even in the polo fight. This is not the whole pie but does infer a closer fight than some of the more hysterical pundits have suggested.

That said he had a bad night. This does not make him a write off any more than the abysmal performance I witnessed from Joe Calzagi in Edinburgh means anything other than a bad day at the office.

Any of the potential major fights being lined up for Harrison could easily end in tears but he equally, is capable of hurting anyone. Those who have made it a bit of a hobby to write off Harrison will continue to do so. And no doubt when his career ends (as boxing careers tent to) in defeat they will feel suitably smug, not realising that their prophesies were as inevitable as a stopped clock being right twice a day.

Here endeth my huff

good post .
Even though I dont agree with all of it, harrison is limited I feel at the very top level but at least he is willing to give it a go, gotta repsect him for that.

I love the last parpagragh, good stuff

Ally wrote:I do not agree that Harrison has been "exposed twice". Assuming the first exposure to be Medina 1, he was simply ill as was evidenced by the wholly different performance in the rematch where Medina had to use every dirty trick in the book simply to survive.

As for the comment that Harrison only beats bums, read his record again.
Chacon, McCulloch, Medina, Polo, are not bums.

To have your left eye shut when fighting a rangy southpaw is the pits for any boxer.

The fight stats had the punches landed about even in the polo fight. This is not the whole pie but does infer a closer fight than some of the more hysterical pundits have suggested.

That said he had a bad night. This does not make him a write off any more than the abysmal performance I witnessed from Joe Calzagi in Edinburgh means anything other than a bad day at the office.

Any of the potential major fights being lined up for Harrison could easily end in tears but he equally, is capable of hurting anyone. Those who have made it a bit of a hobby to write off Harrison will continue to do so. And no doubt when his career ends (as boxing careers tent to) in defeat they will feel suitably smug, not realising that their prophesies were as inevitable as a stopped clock being right twice a day.

Here endeth my huff

Nobody as far as I am aware said Harrison was a bum.

The reason the 2nd fight with Medina was different, was that Harrison was able to hurt Medina early on, which changed the fight, even then he didn't have it all his own way. Compare the emphatic performance by Marquez, who simply chewed Medina up, to Harrison's efforts, and you can see there is a gulf in technical ability.

Polo is not a bum, but Harrison didn't beat him, he got a draw, and a bloody fortunate one at that, the reason his eye was shut, was he kept getting twatted in the face with right jabs and lead lefts all night long, it didn't close by magic.

There's nothing smug about it, the fact is Harrison has some limitations which I doubt he can overcome, it's no personal insult, nor is anyone besmirching his reputations.

Neither am I writing him off, but against Marquez, Barrera or even Pacquaio, the easiest to hit of those men, his chances are slim. Harrison is unable to adapt his gameplan to the extent the first two men are, and I fear Pacquaio is too fast and hits too hard, and he also moves a lot more nimbly than Harrison.

I think he could maybe beat Chi, but anyone making this a forgone conclusion is deluded, Chi took a ferocious pounding to the body early in the first fight with Brodie, and the end result was that Brodie tired from the effort, and then Chi came roaring back.

Why anyone thinks Harrison will walk through him when Morales, who is a far bigger puncher than Harrison couldn't, is simply beyond me. It's possible Chi is on the slide, because he did look vulnerable in his next defence after the second brodie fight, but he still got off the canvas to pound his opponent into submission.

The fight stats were plainly cobblers, I have my own eyes, and watching the fight could see that there were a lot of shots which Polo blocked with gloves or forearms, which made loud slapping noises, which drew roars from the crowd. Everyone in boxing knows that the punch stats are not very reliable, as they are invariably the work of one person who does not have the same view as those watching on TV. They are unofficial figures which are not used in the scoring of fights. Sometimes they are accurate, sometimes they are not, on this occasion it's my belief they are not. Many shots which look like they land often don't and one man sitting doing punch stats is not really able to always take that into account. The noise of the crowd no doubt always influencs this.

If you don't like the fact that people here are critical of Harrison, then that's a shame, but don't try and infer it's some sort of personal vendetta against the man, because it isn't, merely a reflection of the opinion that he may have found his level. That level is a high one, but not quite at the level at which Barrera, Morales and Marquez operate.

If you don't share that opinion, fair enough.

Ally wrote:I do not agree that Harrison has been "exposed twice". Assuming the first exposure to be Medina 1, he was simply ill as was evidenced by the wholly different performance in the rematch where Medina had to use every dirty trick in the book simply to survive.

As for the comment that Harrison only beats bums, read his record again.
Chacon, McCulloch, Medina, Polo, are not bums.

To have your left eye shut when fighting a rangy southpaw is the pits for any boxer.

The fight stats had the punches landed about even in the polo fight. This is not the whole pie but does infer a closer fight than some of the more hysterical pundits have suggested.

That said he had a bad night. This does not make him a write off any more than the abysmal performance I witnessed from Joe Calzagi in Edinburgh means anything other than a bad day at the office.

Any of the potential major fights being lined up for Harrison could easily end in tears but he equally, is capable of hurting anyone. Those who have made it a bit of a hobby to write off Harrison will continue to do so. And no doubt when his career ends (as boxing careers tent to) in defeat they will feel suitably smug, not realising that their prophesies were as inevitable as a stopped clock being right twice a day.

Here endeth my huff

Agree with all of this. I actually remember being impressed by Calzaghe against Salem - in the way that he ground out the win against a spoiler who made him look very ordinary. The only majorly bad thing in that fight was the knockdown. Yes, it was a hard shot, but Joe came in so wide open it was unbelievable for someone at his supposed level.

As for Harrison - Marquez: Marquez TKO 6-8 if he steps out of 2nd gear, otherwise a snoozer on points. Harrison would be able to deck him if he landed, but remember the way Marquez bounced back from that third knockdown against Pacman...

I don't think Harrison has the one punch power to deck Marquez. Harrison's power is not of the same order as Pacquaio's. However more importantly, he's nowhere near as quick as Pacquaio and would have a hard time landing a big wide hook on him.

Maybe it is a bad day at the office on two occasions, and maybe I'm getting too pessimistic, but I've been wrong before and won't be ashamed to be wrong again.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:I don't think Harrison has the one punch power to deck Marquez. Harrison's power is not of the same order as Pacquaio's. However more importantly, he's nowhere near as quick as Pacquaio and would have a hard time landing a big wide hook on him.

Maybe it is a bad day at the office on two occasions, and maybe I'm getting too pessimistic, but I've been wrong before and won't be ashamed to be wrong again.

That's the big problem isn't it, how would Scott land anything on him doing the one-punch stalking routine? I don't think he could, and would be countered into hell. However, if he was somehow able to open up the ultra-cagey Marquez and land a hard 2/3 combination I think there's a chance Marquez could be dropped. He's been dropped at least 5 times since 1999 by people poking through his cage. But as I said before, say Scott does this - it's highly likely Marquez gets up, then what..?

jamesmcdonnell wrote:I don't think Harrison has the one punch power to deck Marquez. Harrison's power is not of the same order as Pacquaio's. However more importantly, he's nowhere near as quick as Pacquaio and would have a hard time landing a big wide hook on him.

Maybe it is a bad day at the office on two occasions, and maybe I'm getting too pessimistic, but I've been wrong before and won't be ashamed to be wrong again.

Neither do I, but having watched Harrison an many of his fights he has shown me that he (latest fight excepted) very high fitness levels, the heart of a lion, and the ability slowly and deliberately break his opponents up. This I believe for example that this led to unjustified claims that Estrada "gave up". If you watch this fight with the sound off (the best way to impartially view a fight in my opinion), you will see Harrison systematically destroy a fighter who had never been stopped and was himself a stopper.

None of this means Harrison is a 'shoe in' for glory or indeed that he is the finished article. However his total number of fights still makes him a bit of a novice in this division and I there is still the potential for Harrison to be an all time great and until such time as this is no longer possible for him we should be giving him credit for what he has achieved and wishing him well for the very hard fights he will now be facing.

I'm sorry, but that's just delusional, there's no way an all time great that far into his career, looks that bad against Victor Polo. Harrison is no novice, that is plain cobblers, he has faced off against too many experienced fighters to be called anything like a novice. Although Hatton for instance has had more fights than Harrison, Harrison is the more seasoned fighter having faced a better level of opposition overall than Hatton.

Estrada looked to me like he ran out of fitness more than anything else against Harrison, and it was worrying how vulnerable Harrison looked in the early rounds.

I wish Harrison nothing but the best, and I applaud his refreshing willingness to mix it with the best, there's no faulting him there.

Manos de Oro wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:I don't think Harrison has the one punch power to deck Marquez. Harrison's power is not of the same order as Pacquaio's. However more importantly, he's nowhere near as quick as Pacquaio and would have a hard time landing a big wide hook on him.

Maybe it is a bad day at the office on two occasions, and maybe I'm getting too pessimistic, but I've been wrong before and won't be ashamed to be wrong again.

That's the big problem isn't it, how would Scott land anything on him doing the one-punch stalking routine? I don't think he could, and would be countered into hell. However, if he was somehow able to open up the ultra-cagey Marquez and land a hard 2/3 combination I think there's a chance Marquez could be dropped. He's been dropped at least 5 times since 1999 by people poking through his cage. But as I said before, say Scott does this - it's highly likely Marquez gets up, then what..?

I think Marquez may be one of those fighters who is not that hard to drop but pretty hard to hurt. Marquez' head was clear after the first two knockdowns against Pacquaio, and in fact was firing back with hard shots when he got dropped a third time. Only on the third knockdown was he badly hurt, and look how well he recovered by the time the next round started. By the end of the second round, Marquez was already taking over.

I've been a Harrison fan ever since he went over to NY and put on a great show, but I have to admit he's disapointed lately. ( and that Estrada win looked very weird - the guy just gave up)

If I were managing him, I'd do my best to steer him well clear of any boxer/mover types - and defintely Marquez too.

Chi would be a great match for him - Juarez or Brodie I reckon he'd steamroll...even PacMan he'd be in with more of a chance - at least he'd be able to tee off on him once in awhile - of course there'd be the minor problem of a few atomic bombs coming back his way....