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do other countries have a journeyman scene like the uk does?
Posted: 25 Jul 2021, 03:56
by margaret thatcher
we have tons of journeymen, and lots of guys approaching 100 fights, with almost all losses. very different from most usa journeymen, who has way fewer fights and also tend to take more ko lossess
how many other countries have something like this, where guys with so many losses make up a comparatively high volume of the active boxers?
how did the journeyman situation develop in the uk?
Re: do other countries have a journeyman scene like the uk does?
Posted: 25 Jul 2021, 04:16
by mickey1975
margaret thatcher wrote: ↑25 Jul 2021, 03:56
we have tons of journeymen, and lots of guys approaching 100 fights, with almost all losses. very different from most usa journeymen, who has way fewer fights and also tend to take more ko lossess
how many other countries have something like this, where guys with so many losses make up a comparatively high volume of the active boxers?
how did the journeyman situation develop in the uk?
Ticket sellers created journeymen
Re: do other countries have a journeyman scene like the uk does?
Posted: 25 Jul 2021, 04:18
by dookus
I've seen a few from Spain
Re: do other countries have a journeyman scene like the uk does?
Posted: 25 Jul 2021, 04:27
by handsofstone
Christ knows but i don't agree with journeymen, what's wrong with pros being matched like amateurs? Ive nothing against people on the level of journeymen making a living boxing but they should be fighting guys similar level, i know they contribute to boxing massively and they regularly pull promoters out the sh1t but journeyman will freely admit they dont want to win otherwise they wont get work, Johnny Greaves is one the most experienced journeymen of his generation and he admitted he doesn't try to win, how is that any different from match fixing??
As i say ive huge respect for journeymen but can they look in the mirror and admit they couldn't have won a lot of fights they lost if they'd changed their mentality?
Re: do other countries have a journeyman scene like the uk does?
Posted: 25 Jul 2021, 04:30
by margaret thatcher
handsofstone wrote: ↑25 Jul 2021, 04:27
Christ knows but i don't agree with journeymen, what's wrong with pros being matched like amateurs? Ive nothing against people on the level of journeymen making a living boxing but they should be fighting guys similar level, i know they contribute to boxing massively and they regularly pull promoters out the sh1t but journeyman will freely admit they dont want to win otherwise they wont get work, Johnny Greaves is one the most experienced journeymen of his generation and he admitted he doesn't try to win, how is that any different from match fixing??
As i say ive huge respect for journeymen but can they look in the mirror and admit they couldn't have won a lot of fights they lost if they'd changed their mentality?
agree, and if you look at the cards here........absolutely stacked with uncompetitive 40-36 fights for the most part. i just cant get into those at all
Re: do other countries have a journeyman scene like the uk does?
Posted: 25 Jul 2021, 04:34
by handsofstone
margaret thatcher wrote: ↑25 Jul 2021, 04:30
handsofstone wrote: ↑25 Jul 2021, 04:27
Christ knows but i don't agree with journeymen, what's wrong with pros being matched like amateurs? Ive nothing against people on the level of journeymen making a living boxing but they should be fighting guys similar level, i know they contribute to boxing massively and they regularly pull promoters out the sh1t but journeyman will freely admit they dont want to win otherwise they wont get work, Johnny Greaves is one the most experienced journeymen of his generation and he admitted he doesn't try to win, how is that any different from match fixing??
As i say ive huge respect for journeymen but can they look in the mirror and admit they couldn't have won a lot of fights they lost if they'd changed their mentality?
agree, and if you look at the cards here........absolutely stacked with uncompetitive 40-36 fights for the most part. i just cant get into those at all
Me neither, especially when the latest wave of Olympians turn over and we've got to suffer a couple of years of the inevitable mismatches
Re: do other countries have a journeyman scene like the uk does?
Posted: 25 Jul 2021, 04:34
by MasterG
If you are not great at your sport In terms of a level for titles I see no issues with journeyman fighting for a few grand every other week. The issue I have is that I see it like a job and giving foreign boxers a wage from other countries imported here is a no no for me. I'm sure there are journeyman all over the world and very much doubt they would make the sort of money British journeyman get.
I'm guessing a journeyman Inthis country could make 5k a fight for a 4 or 6 rounder. Providing he doesn't get koed he could make a decent living fighting 3 times a month.
Re: do other countries have a journeyman scene like the uk does?
Posted: 25 Jul 2021, 04:39
by margaret thatcher
5k for a 4 or 6 rounder..............surely they dont make that much
Re: do other countries have a journeyman scene like the uk does?
Posted: 25 Jul 2021, 04:40
by Dioufy
I don’t like journeymen with 2/65 records tbh.
I get they’re needed and there’s some that have a will to try to win and give it go.
They have a place, but that place is fighting debutants only in my opinion.
Noakes last night bashing up a 2/75 guy just so Frank can sell more tickets is slowly killing boxing.
I’d happy watch two journeymen fight tho.
Re: do other countries have a journeyman scene like the uk does?
Posted: 25 Jul 2021, 04:46
by margaret thatcher
fights vs that type of opponent often get talked about as 'learning' ..... but how much do you learn against a guy who basically is entirely there to survive and offers next to nothing in terms of ambition and their own offense
Re: do other countries have a journeyman scene like the uk does?
Posted: 25 Jul 2021, 04:47
by handsofstone
Dioufy wrote: ↑25 Jul 2021, 04:40
I don’t like journeymen with 2/65 records tbh.
I get they’re needed and there’s some that have a will to try to win and give it go.
They have a place, but that place is fighting debutants only in my opinion.
Noakes last night bashing up a 2/75 guy just so Frank can sell more tickets is slowly killing boxing.
I’d happy watch two journeymen fight tho.
Exactly id rather watch 2 journeymen fight each other or 2 novices square off, this is professional boxing, the so called hardest sport in the world, it doesnt owe anyone a living, it shouldn't be used for guys to effectively throw fights so can continue to pick up a wage, if they respect the sport as much as they claim, try to win rather than survive, ive no issue with guys that try to win but they're far and few between
Re: do other countries have a journeyman scene like the uk does?
Posted: 25 Jul 2021, 04:51
by BoxingBarber
margaret thatcher wrote: ↑25 Jul 2021, 04:39
5k for a 4 or 6 rounder..............surely they dont make that much
1000 for a 4 rounder plus 100 exes is going rate
Re: do other countries have a journeyman scene like the uk does?
Posted: 25 Jul 2021, 04:52
by Dioufy
handsofstone wrote: ↑25 Jul 2021, 04:47
Dioufy wrote: ↑25 Jul 2021, 04:40
I don’t like journeymen with 2/65 records tbh.
I get they’re needed and there’s some that have a will to try to win and give it go.
They have a place, but that place is fighting debutants only in my opinion.
Noakes last night bashing up a 2/75 guy just so Frank can sell more tickets is slowly killing boxing.
I’d happy watch two journeymen fight tho.
Exactly id rather watch 2 journeymen fight each other or 2 novices square off, this is professional boxing, the so called hardest sport in the world, it doesnt owe anyone a living, it shouldn't be used for guys to effectively throw fights so can continue to pick up a wage, if they respect the sport as much as they claim, try to win rather than survive, ive no issue with guys that try to win but they're far and few between
The guy Noakes fought last night who lost 70-odd fights and only won 2 was telling Sam that “you can’t stop me! I’m here for the full 6 rounds!” at the weigh in apparently.
Wtf is that.
Re: do other countries have a journeyman scene like the uk does?
Posted: 25 Jul 2021, 04:53
by margaret thatcher
BoxingBarber wrote: ↑25 Jul 2021, 04:51
margaret thatcher wrote: ↑25 Jul 2021, 04:39
5k for a 4 or 6 rounder..............surely they dont make that much
1000 for a 4 rounder plus 100 exes is going rate
Re: do other countries have a journeyman scene like the uk does?
Posted: 25 Jul 2021, 04:58
by maverick23
MasterG wrote: ↑25 Jul 2021, 04:34
If you are not great at your sport In terms of a level for titles I see no issues with journeyman fighting for a few grand every other week. The issue I have is that I see it like a job and giving foreign boxers a wage from other countries imported here is a no no for me. I'm sure there are journeyman all over the world and very much doubt they would make the sort of money British journeyman get.
I'm guessing a journeyman Inthis country could make 5k a fight for a 4 or 6 rounder. Providing he doesn't get koed he could make a decent living fighting 3 times a month.
They don’t make anything like that. Will be more like £500 than £5,000!
Re: do other countries have a journeyman scene like the uk does?
Posted: 25 Jul 2021, 05:54
by tony1234
Seems Bulgaria has thousands of journeymen heavyweights bags packed to come over to fight
Re: do other countries have a journeyman scene like the uk does?
Posted: 25 Jul 2021, 05:59
by coneye
Put two journeymen on against each other , tell them , the winner is on an extra couple of hundred quid , plus a gauranteed spot on the next fight night ,, and watch your fight of the night
Re: do other countries have a journeyman scene like the uk does?
Posted: 25 Jul 2021, 06:13
by JamesPhilips
Great question. I'd often wondered this myself. I think the Nobby Nobbs losers limited thing is rather British though. Although there are plenty of East Euro 2-19 type professional journeymen bums around.
Re: do other countries have a journeyman scene like the uk does?
Posted: 25 Jul 2021, 07:15
by milpool
Even when a journeyman does put in a decent showing, he doesn’t get the nod. That Adeleye b Sokolowski match was criminal.
Re: do other countries have a journeyman scene like the uk does?
Posted: 25 Jul 2021, 07:25
by dookus
milpool wrote: ↑25 Jul 2021, 07:15
Even when a journeyman does put in a decent showing, he doesn’t get the nod. That Adeleye b Sokolowski match was criminal.
That was a disgraceful decision
Re: do other countries have a journeyman scene like the uk does?
Posted: 25 Jul 2021, 07:30
by Ruthless-RKO
margaret thatcher wrote: ↑25 Jul 2021, 04:39
5k for a 4 or 6 rounder..............surely they dont make that much
Less than £2k definitely.
The ticket seller has to sell enough to pay the journeyman’s purse as well in the small hall shows I read a while ago.
I actually read between £1.5k to £2k is more realistic.
Fight twice a month or even once a month, on top of your normal day job.
It’s not bad at all.
Do journeymans have managers? Don’t think so, probably pay towards the gym they use to work out. Do they pay for sparring partners? Doubt it. Probably just hit a punch bag.
Does anyone know any journeyman personally?
Re: do other countries have a journeyman scene like the uk does?
Posted: 25 Jul 2021, 07:43
by Bleak
tony1234 wrote: ↑25 Jul 2021, 05:54
Seems Bulgaria has thousands of journeymen heavyweights bags packed to come over to fight
I noticed they have emerged again , I wander if they actually train how our journeyman do , ours always seem in decent enough shape when they are brought in at late notice
Re: do other countries have a journeyman scene like the uk does?
Posted: 25 Jul 2021, 07:51
by JamesPhilips
Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑25 Jul 2021, 07:30
margaret thatcher wrote: ↑25 Jul 2021, 04:39
5k for a 4 or 6 rounder..............surely they dont make that much
Less than £2k definitely.
The ticket seller has to sell enough to pay the journeyman’s purse as well in the small hall shows I read a while ago.
I actually read between £1.5k to £2k is more realistic.
Fight twice a month or even once a month, on top of your normal day job.
It’s not bad at all.
Do journeymans have managers? Don’t think so, probably pay towards the gym they use to work out. Do they pay for sparring partners? Doubt it. Probably just hit a punch bag.
Does anyone know any journeyman personally?
True but you have to factor in the brain damage factor. Rockin Robin Deakin for example is not sounding great
Re: do other countries have a journeyman scene like the uk does?
Posted: 25 Jul 2021, 07:55
by Ruthless-RKO
JamesPhilips wrote: ↑25 Jul 2021, 07:51
Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑25 Jul 2021, 07:30
margaret thatcher wrote: ↑25 Jul 2021, 04:39
5k for a 4 or 6 rounder..............surely they dont make that much
Less than £2k definitely.
The ticket seller has to sell enough to pay the journeyman’s purse as well in the small hall shows I read a while ago.
I actually read between £1.5k to £2k is more realistic.
Fight twice a month or even once a month, on top of your normal day job.
It’s not bad at all.
Do journeymans have managers? Don’t think so, probably pay towards the gym they use to work out. Do they pay for sparring partners? Doubt it. Probably just hit a punch bag.
Does anyone know any journeyman personally?
True but you have to factor in the brain damage factor. Rockin Robin Deakin for example is not sounding great
Most of them play it safe, 4 or 6 rounders.
They do more to make sure they lose without any damage than to try and win.
Re: do other countries have a journeyman scene like the uk does?
Posted: 25 Jul 2021, 08:09
by JamesPhilips
Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑25 Jul 2021, 07:55
JamesPhilips wrote: ↑25 Jul 2021, 07:51
Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑25 Jul 2021, 07:30
Less than £2k definitely.
The ticket seller has to sell enough to pay the journeyman’s purse as well in the small hall shows I read a while ago.
I actually read between £1.5k to £2k is more realistic.
Fight twice a month or even once a month, on top of your normal day job.
It’s not bad at all.
Do journeymans have managers? Don’t think so, probably pay towards the gym they use to work out. Do they pay for sparring partners? Doubt it. Probably just hit a punch bag.
Does anyone know any journeyman personally?
True but you have to factor in the brain damage factor. Rockin Robin Deakin for example is not sounding great
Most of them play it safe, 4 or 6 rounders.
They do more to make sure they lose without any damage than to try and win.
True but you can't avoid every shot, especially if you lose every round you are getting hit to some extent.