BoxRec

15 rounds.

Either Steele or Fullmer would be the aggressors and take a decision.

Steele would beat up the clinching machine.

Would have been an intense fight. Almost certainly it would have gone the distance. Could have gone either way.

I will pick the great Gene Fullmer here. He was an excellent ring strategist with lots of heart, grit and determination. Plus, his stamina was one of boxing's best. He also had a superb chin.

He was the last great toughest American white boxer. A poster boy for tough and rough men.

Fullmer by UD or late KO about the 14th or 15th.

elmersalsa wrote: ↑08 Aug 2021, 19:39 I will pick the great Gene Fullmer here. He was an excellent ring strategist with lots of heart, grit and determination. Plus, his stamina was one of boxing's best. He also had a superb chin.

He was the last great toughest American white boxer. A poster boy for tough and rough men.

Fullmer by UD or late KO about the 14th or 15th.

To be honest, I'm pretty surprised with someone recalling Fullmer like that. He was a spoiler, whose main success was in dealing with the past prime version of Robinson, not without getting iced, when Sugar was more credible.

Embracing other men and holding them until the bell rang instead of fighting wasn't a sign of a tough man, I'd say. There were tougher white American boxers after him. Jerry Quarry, Tex Cobb, Tommy Morrison, Vinny Pazienza, Micky Ward.

Fullmer was a sorta prototype for John Ruiz.

Wow. I mean just wow.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑09 Aug 2021, 13:50 Wow. I mean just wow.

What hurts so much, alpy boi?

Your earlier post about Fullmer was ridiculous. Comparing him to John Ruiz? Called him a "spoiler"? You are questioning his toughness? Gene Fullmer?

Fullmer was tough as nails. Just about anybody that saw find can tell that.
Besides Robinson (who was still great) he also beat Basilio twice. Had a draw with Giardello and Tiger. Those fights were brutal. Beat several other very good fighters in an era when the division was loaded. He was a great fighter.

Can't believe anyone would these stupid things about him.

Fullmer boxed very well against Spider Webb.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑09 Aug 2021, 16:03 Your earlier post about Fullmer was ridiculous. Comparing him to John Ruiz? Called him a "spoiler"? You are questioning his toughness? Gene Fullmer?

Fullmer was tough as nails. Just about anybody that saw find can tell that.
Besides Robinson (who was still great) he also beat Basilio twice. Had a draw with Giardello and Tiger. Those fights were brutal. Beat several other very good fighters in an era when the division was loaded. He was a great fighter.

Can't believe anyone would these stupid things about him.

Won both Robinson and Basilio, when those were clearly past prime and at the closing stages of their careers. His hugging HW successor Ruiz had a similar way to the top, when he won the declined Holyfield. So, what's really stupid is to point at greatness of declined fighters as if it somehow worked for them when they were declined.

His Giardello draw was painful to watch even in those tiny fragments, which are available. However, it's impossible to judge that performance properly only by such small fragment. Draws are often arguable. And Tiger whooped the hugging man for good. It was the least painful to watch moments of the spoiler Fullmer, apart from him getting iced by the shadow of Sugar.

Robinson was certainly past his prime, but he still had a lot left. Basilio was still close to his prime. He certainly was considered close his prime going into the fight.
The Robinson-Fullmer fights and the Fullmer-Basilio fights were classics.

Draws are often arguable? No kidding. Thanks for that important information.

A lot of people thought he won the 2nd fight against Tiger.

Glad that after all these years after everyone thought Fullmer great, you have come to the conclusion that he was a spoiler like John Ruiz. congratulations.

I'm going to continue this on the Boxing History Forum, where it really belongs.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑10 Aug 2021, 10:45 Robinson was certainly past his prime, but he still had a lot left. Basilio was still close to his prime. He certainly was considered close his prime going into the fight.
The Robinson-Fullmer fights and the Fullmer-Basilio fights were classics.

Draws are often arguable? No kidding. Thanks for that important information.

he won the 2nd fight against Tiger.

Glad that after all these years after everyone thought Fullmer great, you have come to the conclusion that he was a spoiler like John Ruiz. congratulations.

I'm going to continue this on the Boxing History Forum, where it really belongs.

"A lot of people thought"

"after all these years after everyone thought"

It was always clear, that you were under different biases.

Now do you homework, go and watch the great Gene Fullmer on youtube and feel that pain.

I have to go with Gene Fullmer. Overall he had the better resume of wins (imho) and he had absolutely superb conditioning of non-stop pressure. So I will go with a majority decision.

Gene Fullmer grabbed you to beat you up. John "The Quiet Man" Ruiz grabbed and held for survival. Two different things.

DrDuke wrote: ↑09 Aug 2021, 01:59

elmersalsa wrote: ↑08 Aug 2021, 19:39 I will pick the great Gene Fullmer here. He was an excellent ring strategist with lots of heart, grit and determination. Plus, his stamina was one of boxing's best. He also had a superb chin.

He was the last great toughest American white boxer. A poster boy for tough and rough men.

Fullmer by UD or late KO about the 14th or 15th.

To be honest, I'm pretty surprised with someone recalling Fullmer like that. He was a spoiler, whose main success was in dealing with the past prime version of Robinson, not without getting iced, when Sugar was more credible.

Embracing other men and holding them until the bell rang instead of fighting wasn't a sign of a tough man, I'd say. There were tougher white American boxers after him. Jerry Quarry, Tex Cobb, Tommy Morrison, Vinny Pazienza, Micky Ward.

Fullmer was a sorta prototype for John Ruiz.

Comparing Fullmer to John Ruiz makes me think you've never seen the guy fight. He was a pressure fighter, and was quite aggressive. Not the least bit comparable to Ruiz.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑11 Aug 2021, 13:39

DrDuke wrote: ↑09 Aug 2021, 01:59

elmersalsa wrote: ↑08 Aug 2021, 19:39 I will pick the great Gene Fullmer here. He was an excellent ring strategist with lots of heart, grit and determination. Plus, his stamina was one of boxing's best. He also had a superb chin.

He was the last great toughest American white boxer. A poster boy for tough and rough men.

Fullmer by UD or late KO about the 14th or 15th.

To be honest, I'm pretty surprised with someone recalling Fullmer like that. He was a spoiler, whose main success was in dealing with the past prime version of Robinson, not without getting iced, when Sugar was more credible.

Embracing other men and holding them until the bell rang instead of fighting wasn't a sign of a tough man, I'd say. There were tougher white American boxers after him. Jerry Quarry, Tex Cobb, Tommy Morrison, Vinny Pazienza, Micky Ward.

Fullmer was a sorta prototype for John Ruiz.

Comparing Fullmer to John Ruiz makes me think you've never seen the guy fight. He was a pressure fighter, and was quite aggressive. Not the least bit comparable to Ruiz.

The comparison is obvious. Don't pretend if it isn't. Of course, they weren't absolutely identical, but they are worthy for a comparison, as both were dirty fighters keen on constant clinching.

DrDuke wrote: ↑11 Aug 2021, 13:50

gilgamesh wrote: ↑11 Aug 2021, 13:39

DrDuke wrote: ↑09 Aug 2021, 01:59

To be honest, I'm pretty surprised with someone recalling Fullmer like that. He was a spoiler, whose main success was in dealing with the past prime version of Robinson, not without getting iced, when Sugar was more credible.

Embracing other men and holding them until the bell rang instead of fighting wasn't a sign of a tough man, I'd say. There were tougher white American boxers after him. Jerry Quarry, Tex Cobb, Tommy Morrison, Vinny Pazienza, Micky Ward.

Fullmer was a sorta prototype for John Ruiz.

Comparing Fullmer to John Ruiz makes me think you've never seen the guy fight. He was a pressure fighter, and was quite aggressive. Not the least bit comparable to Ruiz.

The comparison is obvious. Don't pretend if it isn't. Of course, they weren't absolutely identical, but they are worthy for a comparison, as both were dirty fighters keen on constant clinching.

You're literally the only person I've ever seen compare Fullmer to Ruiz. I've been reading about, watching, and studying Boxing for decades. Nobody but you has ever uttered those words. Until these threads I'm not sure I've ever seen the names in the same sentence.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑11 Aug 2021, 13:54

DrDuke wrote: ↑11 Aug 2021, 13:50

gilgamesh wrote: ↑11 Aug 2021, 13:39

Comparing Fullmer to John Ruiz makes me think you've never seen the guy fight. He was a pressure fighter, and was quite aggressive. Not the least bit comparable to Ruiz.

The comparison is obvious. Don't pretend if it isn't. Of course, they weren't absolutely identical, but they are worthy for a comparison, as both were dirty fighters keen on constant clinching.

You're literally the only person I've ever seen compare Fullmer to Ruiz. I've been reading about, watching, and studying Boxing for decades. Nobody but you has ever uttered those words. Until these threads I'm not sure I've ever seen the names in the same sentence.

Well, everything happens for the first time.

DrDuke wrote: ↑11 Aug 2021, 14:01

gilgamesh wrote: ↑11 Aug 2021, 13:54

DrDuke wrote: ↑11 Aug 2021, 13:50
The comparison is obvious. Don't pretend if it isn't. Of course, they weren't absolutely identical, but they are worthy for a comparison, as both were dirty fighters keen on constant clinching.

You're literally the only person I've ever seen compare Fullmer to Ruiz. I've been reading about, watching, and studying Boxing for decades. Nobody but you has ever uttered those words. Until these threads I'm not sure I've ever seen the names in the same sentence.

Well, everything happens for the first time.

So Boxing experts, Boxing fans, Boxing critics, Boxing writers just never thought to compare Ruiz to Fullmer? You've been a fan for what? 4 years? And you know more than everyone that's ever followed or covered the sport?

Me thinks you have a lot to learn about it. Holding and In-fighting and Holding and Spoiling are 2 different things. You don't see much in-fighting in the modern era because they basically don't allow it. Back in Fullmer's day, it was common.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑11 Aug 2021, 14:15

DrDuke wrote: ↑11 Aug 2021, 14:01

gilgamesh wrote: ↑11 Aug 2021, 13:54

You're literally the only person I've ever seen compare Fullmer to Ruiz. I've been reading about, watching, and studying Boxing for decades. Nobody but you has ever uttered those words. Until these threads I'm not sure I've ever seen the names in the same sentence.

Well, everything happens for the first time.

So Boxing experts, Boxing fans, Boxing critics, Boxing writers just never thought to compare Ruiz to Fullmer? You've been a fan for what? 4 years? And you know more than everyone that's ever followed or covered the sport?

Me thinks you have a lot to learn about it. Holding and In-fighting and Holding and Spoiling are 2 different things. You don't see much in-fighting in the modern era because they basically don't allow it. Back in Fullmer's day, it was common.

Why should I give a f*ck about some Boxing experts, Boxing fans, Boxing critics, Boxing writers comparing this or that? I prefer to watch boxing myself and to make my own conclusions instead.

Fullmer was dirty even for his time. Hitting with a head, holding excessively, holding and hitting, hitting on kidneys wasn't allowed back then. He did it all the time.

DrDuke wrote: ↑11 Aug 2021, 14:38

gilgamesh wrote: ↑11 Aug 2021, 14:15

DrDuke wrote: ↑11 Aug 2021, 14:01

Well, everything happens for the first time.

So Boxing experts, Boxing fans, Boxing critics, Boxing writers just never thought to compare Ruiz to Fullmer? You've been a fan for what? 4 years? And you know more than everyone that's ever followed or covered the sport?

Me thinks you have a lot to learn about it. Holding and In-fighting and Holding and Spoiling are 2 different things. You don't see much in-fighting in the modern era because they basically don't allow it. Back in Fullmer's day, it was common.

Why should I give a f*ck about some Boxing experts, Boxing fans, Boxing critics, Boxing writers comparing this or that? I prefer to watch boxing myself and to make my own conclusions instead.

Fullmer was dirty even for his time. Hitting with a head, holding excessively, holding and hitting, hitting on kidneys wasn't allowed back then. He did it all the time.

So?

Ruiz wasn't a dirty fighter really, or at least not a good one because he got caught when he tried to cheat. Guys back then would bend the rules all the time and get away with it. It's called being crafty when you get away with it. Bernard Hopkins is a good example of it in the modern era.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑11 Aug 2021, 14:40

DrDuke wrote: ↑11 Aug 2021, 14:38

gilgamesh wrote: ↑11 Aug 2021, 14:15

So Boxing experts, Boxing fans, Boxing critics, Boxing writers just never thought to compare Ruiz to Fullmer? You've been a fan for what? 4 years? And you know more than everyone that's ever followed or covered the sport?

Me thinks you have a lot to learn about it. Holding and In-fighting and Holding and Spoiling are 2 different things. You don't see much in-fighting in the modern era because they basically don't allow it. Back in Fullmer's day, it was common.

Why should I give a f*ck about some Boxing experts, Boxing fans, Boxing critics, Boxing writers comparing this or that? I prefer to watch boxing myself and to make my own conclusions instead.

Fullmer was dirty even for his time. Hitting with a head, holding excessively, holding and hitting, hitting on kidneys wasn't allowed back then. He did it all the time.

So?

Ruiz wasn't a dirty fighter really, or at least not a good one because he got caught when he tried to cheat. Guys back then would bend the rules all the time and get away with it. It's called being crafty when you get away with it. Bernard Hopkins is a good example of it in the modern era.

Ruiz was a good enough dirty fighter to survive and provide how-to-score-it bouts.

Hopkins was in the other league in comparison to Fullmer and Ruiz.

Eh whatever. Enjoy your poorly thought out opinion.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑11 Aug 2021, 14:45 Eh whatever. Enjoy your poorly thought out opinion.

Alpy will approve this kind of a conclusion you've made.