Ratings - please read before commenting

squiggy
Light Heavyweight
Posts: 1907
Joined: 04 Feb 2008, 03:35

Re: Ratings - please read before commenting

Post by squiggy »

computerrank wrote: 24 Jul 2022, 10:38 Your last posts comment the recent big BoxRec website update and the changes in displaying rating points.

The ratings algorithm itself and the ratings rules didn't change at all.
Right, but no one can see them.
Manrae
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 234
Joined: 28 Nov 2002, 18:57

Re: Ratings - please read before commenting

Post by Manrae »

https://boxrec.com/en/event/832117/2672385

Any reason why this bout doesn't have a weight class attached to it? This being a 2 star bout seemed off since Santiago arguably beat Adrien Broner... it should at least have been a 3 star bout, no?
computerrank
Editor
Editor
Posts: 2241
Joined: 04 Jan 2003, 18:59

Re: Ratings - please read before commenting

Post by computerrank »

Manrae wrote: 01 Aug 2022, 00:32 https://boxrec.com/en/event/832117/2672385

Any reason why this bout doesn't have a weight class attached to it? This being a 2 star bout seemed off since Santiago arguably beat Adrien Broner... it should at least have been a 3 star bout, no?
There seems no reason to have no weight class attached to that bout. You should post that at the forum Record Queries & Updates
viewforum.php?f=1
Manrae
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 234
Joined: 28 Nov 2002, 18:57

Re: Ratings - please read before commenting

Post by Manrae »

#17 Mike Plania (3.5 stars) vs #4 Ra'eese Aleem (4.5 stars)

^^Why is this listed as a 2 star bout?

https://boxrec.com/en/event/858306/2879960
Manrae
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 234
Joined: 28 Nov 2002, 18:57

Re: Ratings - please read before commenting

Post by Manrae »

computerrank wrote: 01 Aug 2022, 03:13
Manrae wrote: 01 Aug 2022, 00:32 https://boxrec.com/en/event/832117/2672385

Any reason why this bout doesn't have a weight class attached to it? This being a 2 star bout seemed off since Santiago arguably beat Adrien Broner... it should at least have been a 3 star bout, no?
There seems no reason to have no weight class attached to that bout. You should post that at the forum Record Queries & Updates
viewforum.php?f=1
I made a thread, no one has replied...

Honest question... should we be worried about the future of this website? :verysad:
computerrank
Editor
Editor
Posts: 2241
Joined: 04 Jan 2003, 18:59

Re: Ratings - please read before commenting

Post by computerrank »

Manrae wrote: 04 Aug 2022, 21:54
computerrank wrote: 01 Aug 2022, 03:13
Manrae wrote: 01 Aug 2022, 00:32 https://boxrec.com/en/event/832117/2672385

Any reason why this bout doesn't have a weight class attached to it? This being a 2 star bout seemed off since Santiago arguably beat Adrien Broner... it should at least have been a 3 star bout, no?
There seems no reason to have no weight class attached to that bout. You should post that at the forum Record Queries & Updates
viewforum.php?f=1
I made a thread, no one has replied...

Honest question... should we be worried about the future of this website? :verysad:
It's not the editors' fault. The editors cannot change that bout. The new BoxRec release double checks whether the judge score complies with number of rounds boxed. And it says 60 judge points do not comply with a RTD6. It treats RTD as KO and assumes there was not score for round 6.
I changed to DQ and Super Lightweight. But now I cannot change back to RTD :verysad:, First that bug has to fixed too - that is in the pipeline.
Manrae
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 234
Joined: 28 Nov 2002, 18:57

Re: Ratings - please read before commenting

Post by Manrae »

computerrank wrote: 05 Aug 2022, 02:30
Manrae wrote: 04 Aug 2022, 21:54
computerrank wrote: 01 Aug 2022, 03:13

There seems no reason to have no weight class attached to that bout. You should post that at the forum Record Queries & Updates
viewforum.php?f=1
I made a thread, no one has replied...

Honest question... should we be worried about the future of this website? :verysad:
It's not the editors' fault. The editors cannot change that bout. The new BoxRec release double checks whether the judge score complies with number of rounds boxed. And it says 60 judge points do not comply with a RTD6. It treats RTD as KO and assumes there was not score for round 6.
I changed to DQ and Super Lightweight. But now I cannot change back to RTD :verysad:, First that bug has to fixed too - that is in the pipeline.
I appreciate your work as always, thank you so much for your reply :TU: :TU: :TU:
SportsRatings
Middleweight
Posts: 415
Joined: 26 May 2010, 23:15

Re: Ratings - please read before commenting

Post by SportsRatings »

computerrank wrote: 05 Aug 2022, 02:30
Manrae wrote: 04 Aug 2022, 21:54
computerrank wrote: 01 Aug 2022, 03:13

There seems no reason to have no weight class attached to that bout. You should post that at the forum Record Queries & Updates
viewforum.php?f=1
I made a thread, no one has replied...

Honest question... should we be worried about the future of this website? :verysad:
It's not the editors' fault. The editors cannot change that bout. The new BoxRec release double checks whether the judge score complies with number of rounds boxed. And it says 60 judge points do not comply with a RTD6. It treats RTD as KO and assumes there was not score for round 6.
I changed to DQ and Super Lightweight. But now I cannot change back to RTD :verysad:, First that bug has to fixed too - that is in the pipeline.
Is BoxRec reaching sentience? It seems like it has a mind of its own and its human overseers are now powerless to contradict its decisions.
computerrank
Editor
Editor
Posts: 2241
Joined: 04 Jan 2003, 18:59

Re: Ratings - please read before commenting

Post by computerrank »

SportsRatings wrote: 05 Aug 2022, 15:11 Is BoxRec reaching sentience? It seems like it has a mind of its own and its human overseers are now powerless to contradict its decisions.
Is that about the ratings algorithm?
SportsRatings
Middleweight
Posts: 415
Joined: 26 May 2010, 23:15

Re: Ratings - please read before commenting

Post by SportsRatings »

computerrank wrote: 05 Aug 2022, 16:04
SportsRatings wrote: 05 Aug 2022, 15:11 Is BoxRec reaching sentience? It seems like it has a mind of its own and its human overseers are now powerless to contradict its decisions.
Is that about the ratings algorithm?
Boxrec as a whole...not allowing you to do things, like HAL

I envision you having to squeeze through ventilation ducts to remove circuit boards one by one to regain control, while Boxrec sings "Daisy"
pugilisticspecialist
Super Middleweight
Posts: 218
Joined: 19 May 2009, 16:23

Re: Ratings - please read before commenting

Post by pugilisticspecialist »

Since the ratings are no longer visible to users, can someone could post the all-time heavyweights by career peak, without the top 5 opponents thing.
computerrank
Editor
Editor
Posts: 2241
Joined: 04 Jan 2003, 18:59

Re: Ratings - please read before commenting

Post by computerrank »

Code: Select all

  1  Heavyweight             7033 Vitali Klitschko                621.6951
  2  Heavyweight             1853 Lennox Lewis                    576.3809
  3  Heavyweight             7035 Wladimir Klitschko              502.9705
  4  Heavyweight             9032 Rocky Marciano                  403.6983
  5  Heavyweight             9027 Joe Louis                       298.7938
  6  Heavyweight           479205 Tyson Fury                      280.7366
  7  Heavyweight              180 Muhammad Ali                    258.9802
  8  Heavyweight             9012 Ezzard Charles                  172.5565
  9  Heavyweight             9031 Sonny Liston                    170.4930
 10  Heavyweight             9046 Gene Tunney                     150.8769
 11  Heavyweight             1640 Riddick Bowe                    148.6770
 12  Heavyweight           659461 Anthony Joshua                  133.6385
 13  Heavyweight           318081 Alexander Povetkin              120.2661
 14  Heavyweight              499 Evander Holyfield               117.2002
 15  Heavyweight             9038 Floyd Patterson                 113.9118
 16  Heavyweight           468841 Deontay Wilder                  113.8962
 17  Heavyweight              150 Larry Holmes                    110.9543
 18  Heavyweight           155774 David Haye                      100.1924
 19  Heavyweight              474 Mike Tyson                       94.7879
 20  Heavyweight            12711 Ingemar Johansson                90.0996
 21  Heavyweight           659772 Oleksandr Usyk                   89.0961
 22  Heavyweight            19904 Nikolai Valuev                   88.7696
 23  Heavyweight            11028 Jersey Joe Walcott               75.4514
 24  Heavyweight              147 Joe Frazier                      68.8495
 25  Heavyweight             9009 Jack Dempsey                     64.6615
 26  Heavyweight             5981 Ike Ibeabuchi                    60.7590
 27  Heavyweight               90 George Foreman                   59.7514
 28  Heavyweight             4923 Chris Byrd                       58.4570
 29  Heavyweight            24358 Ruslan Chagaev                   58.2402
 30  Heavyweight            21633 Tony Thompson                    55.9408
 31  Heavyweight           113634 Sultan Ibragimov                 53.4187
 32  Heavyweight             4343 David Tua                        51.5477
 33  Heavyweight             4655 John Ruiz                        51.1918
 34  Heavyweight           528949 Luis Ortiz                       50.8448
 35  Heavyweight             9382 Cleveland Williams               49.4009
 36  Heavyweight           511850 Kubrat Pulev                     47.9836
 37  Heavyweight             2011 Henry Akinwande                  47.5796
 38  Heavyweight              505 Frank Bruno                      47.0183
 39  Heavyweight            10529 Bob Pastor                       45.1309
 40  Heavyweight           569964 Dillian Whyte                    40.7023
 41  Heavyweight           212248 Chris Arreola                    38.2231
 42  Heavyweight            12469 Clarence Henry                   37.9826
 43  Heavyweight            32364 Samuel Peter                     36.8418
 44  Heavyweight           498837 Jarrell Miller                   36.3910
 45  Heavyweight              168 Ken Norton                       36.0009
 46  Heavyweight             6070 Hasim Rahman                     35.9768
 47  Heavyweight             7777 Kirk Johnson                     35.3157
 48  Heavyweight            10881 Eddie Machen                     34.6989
 49  Heavyweight            12459 Karel Sys                        34.3895
 50  Heavyweight             5847 Michael Grant                    33.8219
 51  Heavyweight            10337 Elmer Ray                        33.5152
 52  Heavyweight              584 James Douglas                    33.0749
 53  Heavyweight            10526 Melio Bettina                    32.7570
 54  Heavyweight            21587 Kid Riviera                      32.1601
 55  Heavyweight             9041 Max Schmeling                    31.9352
 56  Heavyweight           489762 Andy Ruiz                        31.2746
 57  Heavyweight            16178 Jimmy Ellis                      31.0569
 58  Heavyweight              451 Oliver McCall                    31.0489
 59  Heavyweight             1728 Corrie Sanders                   30.8217
 60  Heavyweight            79357 Alexander Dimitrenko             30.4034
 61  Heavyweight            17739 Cedric Boswell                   29.7162
 62  Heavyweight            10344 Joe Baksi                        29.6987
 63  Heavyweight            11981 Leotis Martin                    29.5581
 64  Heavyweight            16554 Joe Mesi                         29.0240
 65  Heavyweight            12475 Bob Baker                        28.6739
 66  Heavyweight             5038 Zeljko Mavrovic                  28.5269
 67  Heavyweight            32493 Calvin Brock                     28.1948
 68  Heavyweight           381739 Derek Chisora                    28.1011
 69  Heavyweight            12116 Roscoe Toles                     28.0611
 70  Heavyweight           613846 Joseph Parker                    27.9320
 71  Heavyweight           583767 Murat Gassiev                    27.3327
 72  Heavyweight             1137 Michael Moorer                   27.1905
 73  Heavyweight             9383 Ernie Terrell                    26.4299
 74  Heavyweight             9384 Zora Folley                      26.3244
 75  Heavyweight             4629 Shannon Briggs                   26.2221
 76  Heavyweight             4681 Brian Nielsen                    26.1984
 77  Heavyweight             9385 Jerry Quarry                     26.1009
 78  Heavyweight            10360 Nino Valdes                      25.8043
 79  Heavyweight              495 Tony Tucker                      24.8222
 80  Heavyweight             7532 Guillermo Jones                  24.4640
 81  Heavyweight             2463 Gerry Cooney                     23.9605
 82  Heavyweight            12131 Buddy Baer                       23.6415
 83  Heavyweight            12077 Max Baer                         23.2770
 84  Heavyweight             4892 Larry Donald                     22.9150
 85  Heavyweight             1869 Donovan Ruddock                  22.6800
 86  Heavyweight            13622 Olle Tandberg                    22.5583
 87  Heavyweight             9381 Karl Mildenberger                22.2826
 88  Heavyweight            14027 Fres Oquendo                     22.1144
 89  Heavyweight             9386 Oscar Bonavena                   22.0455
 90  Heavyweight            37004 Bruce Woodcock                   21.6167
 91  Heavyweight             9379 Henry Cooper                     21.2105
 92  Heavyweight            42016 Oleg Platov                      21.1820
 93  Heavyweight             2039 Herbie Hide                      20.9103
 94  Heavyweight           451505 Robert Helenius                  20.8715
 95  Heavyweight            34277 Eddie Chambers                   20.7216
 96  Heavyweight            24674 Lee Q Murray                     20.6470
 97  Heavyweight              405 Mike Weaver                      20.3001
 98  Heavyweight            12125 Tony Galento                     19.9106
 99  Heavyweight             4345 Andrew Golota                    19.7207
100  Heavyweight            31256 Volodymyr Vyrchys                19.6582
pugilisticspecialist
Super Middleweight
Posts: 218
Joined: 19 May 2009, 16:23

Re: Ratings - please read before commenting

Post by pugilisticspecialist »

computerrank wrote: 26 Aug 2022, 17:31

Code: Select all

  1  Heavyweight             7033 Vitali Klitschko                621.6951
  2  Heavyweight             1853 Lennox Lewis                    576.3809
  3  Heavyweight             7035 Wladimir Klitschko              502.9705
  4  Heavyweight             9032 Rocky Marciano                  403.6983
  5  Heavyweight             9027 Joe Louis                       298.7938
  6  Heavyweight           479205 Tyson Fury                      280.7366
  7  Heavyweight              180 Muhammad Ali                    258.9802
  8  Heavyweight             9012 Ezzard Charles                  172.5565
  9  Heavyweight             9031 Sonny Liston                    170.4930
 10  Heavyweight             9046 Gene Tunney                     150.8769
 11  Heavyweight             1640 Riddick Bowe                    148.6770
 12  Heavyweight           659461 Anthony Joshua                  133.6385
 13  Heavyweight           318081 Alexander Povetkin              120.2661
 14  Heavyweight              499 Evander Holyfield               117.2002
 15  Heavyweight             9038 Floyd Patterson                 113.9118
 16  Heavyweight           468841 Deontay Wilder                  113.8962
 17  Heavyweight              150 Larry Holmes                    110.9543
 18  Heavyweight           155774 David Haye                      100.1924
 19  Heavyweight              474 Mike Tyson                       94.7879
 20  Heavyweight            12711 Ingemar Johansson                90.0996
 21  Heavyweight           659772 Oleksandr Usyk                   89.0961
 22  Heavyweight            19904 Nikolai Valuev                   88.7696
 23  Heavyweight            11028 Jersey Joe Walcott               75.4514
 24  Heavyweight              147 Joe Frazier                      68.8495
 25  Heavyweight             9009 Jack Dempsey                     64.6615
 26  Heavyweight             5981 Ike Ibeabuchi                    60.7590
 27  Heavyweight               90 George Foreman                   59.7514
 28  Heavyweight             4923 Chris Byrd                       58.4570
 29  Heavyweight            24358 Ruslan Chagaev                   58.2402
 30  Heavyweight            21633 Tony Thompson                    55.9408
 31  Heavyweight           113634 Sultan Ibragimov                 53.4187
 32  Heavyweight             4343 David Tua                        51.5477
 33  Heavyweight             4655 John Ruiz                        51.1918
 34  Heavyweight           528949 Luis Ortiz                       50.8448
 35  Heavyweight             9382 Cleveland Williams               49.4009
 36  Heavyweight           511850 Kubrat Pulev                     47.9836
 37  Heavyweight             2011 Henry Akinwande                  47.5796
 38  Heavyweight              505 Frank Bruno                      47.0183
 39  Heavyweight            10529 Bob Pastor                       45.1309
 40  Heavyweight           569964 Dillian Whyte                    40.7023
 41  Heavyweight           212248 Chris Arreola                    38.2231
 42  Heavyweight            12469 Clarence Henry                   37.9826
 43  Heavyweight            32364 Samuel Peter                     36.8418
 44  Heavyweight           498837 Jarrell Miller                   36.3910
 45  Heavyweight              168 Ken Norton                       36.0009
 46  Heavyweight             6070 Hasim Rahman                     35.9768
 47  Heavyweight             7777 Kirk Johnson                     35.3157
 48  Heavyweight            10881 Eddie Machen                     34.6989
 49  Heavyweight            12459 Karel Sys                        34.3895
 50  Heavyweight             5847 Michael Grant                    33.8219
 51  Heavyweight            10337 Elmer Ray                        33.5152
 52  Heavyweight              584 James Douglas                    33.0749
 53  Heavyweight            10526 Melio Bettina                    32.7570
 54  Heavyweight            21587 Kid Riviera                      32.1601
 55  Heavyweight             9041 Max Schmeling                    31.9352
 56  Heavyweight           489762 Andy Ruiz                        31.2746
 57  Heavyweight            16178 Jimmy Ellis                      31.0569
 58  Heavyweight              451 Oliver McCall                    31.0489
 59  Heavyweight             1728 Corrie Sanders                   30.8217
 60  Heavyweight            79357 Alexander Dimitrenko             30.4034
 61  Heavyweight            17739 Cedric Boswell                   29.7162
 62  Heavyweight            10344 Joe Baksi                        29.6987
 63  Heavyweight            11981 Leotis Martin                    29.5581
 64  Heavyweight            16554 Joe Mesi                         29.0240
 65  Heavyweight            12475 Bob Baker                        28.6739
 66  Heavyweight             5038 Zeljko Mavrovic                  28.5269
 67  Heavyweight            32493 Calvin Brock                     28.1948
 68  Heavyweight           381739 Derek Chisora                    28.1011
 69  Heavyweight            12116 Roscoe Toles                     28.0611
 70  Heavyweight           613846 Joseph Parker                    27.9320
 71  Heavyweight           583767 Murat Gassiev                    27.3327
 72  Heavyweight             1137 Michael Moorer                   27.1905
 73  Heavyweight             9383 Ernie Terrell                    26.4299
 74  Heavyweight             9384 Zora Folley                      26.3244
 75  Heavyweight             4629 Shannon Briggs                   26.2221
 76  Heavyweight             4681 Brian Nielsen                    26.1984
 77  Heavyweight             9385 Jerry Quarry                     26.1009
 78  Heavyweight            10360 Nino Valdes                      25.8043
 79  Heavyweight              495 Tony Tucker                      24.8222
 80  Heavyweight             7532 Guillermo Jones                  24.4640
 81  Heavyweight             2463 Gerry Cooney                     23.9605
 82  Heavyweight            12131 Buddy Baer                       23.6415
 83  Heavyweight            12077 Max Baer                         23.2770
 84  Heavyweight             4892 Larry Donald                     22.9150
 85  Heavyweight             1869 Donovan Ruddock                  22.6800
 86  Heavyweight            13622 Olle Tandberg                    22.5583
 87  Heavyweight             9381 Karl Mildenberger                22.2826
 88  Heavyweight            14027 Fres Oquendo                     22.1144
 89  Heavyweight             9386 Oscar Bonavena                   22.0455
 90  Heavyweight            37004 Bruce Woodcock                   21.6167
 91  Heavyweight             9379 Henry Cooper                     21.2105
 92  Heavyweight            42016 Oleg Platov                      21.1820
 93  Heavyweight             2039 Herbie Hide                      20.9103
 94  Heavyweight           451505 Robert Helenius                  20.8715
 95  Heavyweight            34277 Eddie Chambers                   20.7216
 96  Heavyweight            24674 Lee Q Murray                     20.6470
 97  Heavyweight              405 Mike Weaver                      20.3001
 98  Heavyweight            12125 Tony Galento                     19.9106
 99  Heavyweight             4345 Andrew Golota                    19.7207
100  Heavyweight            31256 Volodymyr Vyrchys                19.6582

I prefer these rankings to the official ones. They're "purer" and peak vs peak is pretty much always assumed when debating how guys from different eras would fair against each other.

Is this their overall peak or just their peak within the heavyweight division? Like could Gene Tunney have more points at light heavyweight?

Also, does this have the 15 year thing, where the system assumes their points will decline until they're 15 years past their peak? So someone like Tyson Fury would have more points than this in reality?
computerrank
Editor
Editor
Posts: 2241
Joined: 04 Jan 2003, 18:59

Re: Ratings - please read before commenting

Post by computerrank »

pugilisticspecialist wrote: 26 Aug 2022, 19:32 I prefer these rankings to the official ones. They're "purer" and peak vs peak is pretty much always assumed when debating how guys from different eras would fair against each other.

Is this their overall peak or just their peak within the heavyweight division? Like could Gene Tunney have more points at light heavyweight?

Also, does this have the 15 year thing, where the system assumes their points will decline until they're 15 years past their peak? So someone like Tyson Fury would have more points than this in reality?
-These ratings are referenced to absolute WHR ratings. So there are no extra points for bouts in lower weight divisions.
- The ratings for the last 15 years are reduced. So Tyson Fury would be top uncorrected.
pugilisticspecialist
Super Middleweight
Posts: 218
Joined: 19 May 2009, 16:23

Re: Ratings - please read before commenting

Post by pugilisticspecialist »

computerrank wrote: 27 Aug 2022, 06:54
pugilisticspecialist wrote: 26 Aug 2022, 19:32 I prefer these rankings to the official ones. They're "purer" and peak vs peak is pretty much always assumed when debating how guys from different eras would fair against each other.

Is this their overall peak or just their peak within the heavyweight division? Like could Gene Tunney have more points at light heavyweight?

Also, does this have the 15 year thing, where the system assumes their points will decline until they're 15 years past their peak? So someone like Tyson Fury would have more points than this in reality?
-These ratings are referenced to absolute WHR ratings. So there are no extra points for bouts in lower weight divisions.
So all of Usyk's ~89 points at heavyweight come from just his heavyweight bouts? None of his cruiserweights bouts contribute to that rating?

I don't have a problem with that, I'm just curious.
computerrank
Editor
Editor
Posts: 2241
Joined: 04 Jan 2003, 18:59

Re: Ratings - please read before commenting

Post by computerrank »

pugilisticspecialist wrote: 27 Aug 2022, 17:51
computerrank wrote: 27 Aug 2022, 06:54
pugilisticspecialist wrote: 26 Aug 2022, 19:32 I prefer these rankings to the official ones. They're "purer" and peak vs peak is pretty much always assumed when debating how guys from different eras would fair against each other.

Is this their overall peak or just their peak within the heavyweight division? Like could Gene Tunney have more points at light heavyweight?

Also, does this have the 15 year thing, where the system assumes their points will decline until they're 15 years past their peak? So someone like Tyson Fury would have more points than this in reality?
-These ratings are referenced to absolute WHR ratings. So there are no extra points for bouts in lower weight divisions.
So all of Usyk's ~89 points at heavyweight come from just his heavyweight bouts? None of his cruiserweights bouts contribute to that rating?

I don't have a problem with that, I'm just curious.
All bouts outside of Heavyweight disregarded for the peak collection you get:

Code: Select all

  1  Heavyweight             7033 Vitali Klitschko                621.7566
  2  Heavyweight             1853 Lennox Lewis                    576.3809
  3  Heavyweight             7035 Wladimir Klitschko              503.0978
  4  Heavyweight             9032 Rocky Marciano                  403.6989
  5  Heavyweight             9027 Joe Louis                       298.7943
  6  Heavyweight           479205 Tyson Fury                      280.9471
  7  Heavyweight              180 Muhammad Ali                    258.9802
  8  Heavyweight             9012 Ezzard Charles                  172.5565
  9  Heavyweight             9031 Sonny Liston                    170.4930
 10  Heavyweight             9046 Gene Tunney                     150.8838
 11  Heavyweight             1640 Riddick Bowe                    148.6769
 12  Heavyweight           659461 Anthony Joshua                  133.6759
 13  Heavyweight           318081 Alexander Povetkin              120.2972
 14  Heavyweight              499 Evander Holyfield               117.2002
 15  Heavyweight           468841 Deontay Wilder                  113.9808
 16  Heavyweight             9038 Floyd Patterson                 113.9120
 17  Heavyweight              150 Larry Holmes                    110.9543
 18  Heavyweight           155774 David Haye                      100.2137
 19  Heavyweight              474 Mike Tyson                       94.7879
 20  Heavyweight            12711 Ingemar Johansson                90.0997
 21  Heavyweight            19904 Nikolai Valuev                   88.7646
 22  Heavyweight           659772 Oleksandr Usyk                   80.3508
 23  Heavyweight            11028 Jersey Joe Walcott               75.4514
 24  Heavyweight              147 Joe Frazier                      68.8495
 25  Heavyweight             9009 Jack Dempsey                     64.6692
 26  Heavyweight             5981 Ike Ibeabuchi                    60.7590
 27  Heavyweight               90 George Foreman                   59.7514
 28  Heavyweight             4923 Chris Byrd                       58.4570
 29  Heavyweight            24358 Ruslan Chagaev                   58.2345
 30  Heavyweight            21633 Tony Thompson                    55.9346
 31  Heavyweight           113634 Sultan Ibragimov                 53.4355
 32  Heavyweight             4343 David Tua                        51.5477
 33  Heavyweight             4655 John Ruiz                        51.1918
 34  Heavyweight           528949 Luis Ortiz                       50.8653
 35  Heavyweight             9382 Cleveland Williams               49.4008
 36  Heavyweight           511850 Kubrat Pulev                     47.9596
 37  Heavyweight             2011 Henry Akinwande                  47.5796
 38  Heavyweight              505 Frank Bruno                      47.0183
 39  Heavyweight            10529 Bob Pastor                       45.1311
 40  Heavyweight           569964 Dillian Whyte                    40.7072
 41  Heavyweight           212248 Chris Arreola                    38.2335
 42  Heavyweight            12469 Clarence Henry                   37.9826
 43  Heavyweight            32364 Samuel Peter                     36.8405
 44  Heavyweight           498837 Jarrell Miller                   36.3923
 45  Heavyweight              168 Ken Norton                       36.0009
 46  Heavyweight             6070 Hasim Rahman                     35.9768
 47  Heavyweight             7777 Kirk Johnson                     35.3147
 48  Heavyweight            10881 Eddie Machen                     34.6989
 49  Heavyweight            12459 Karel Sys                        34.3694
 50  Heavyweight             5847 Michael Grant                    33.8219
 51  Heavyweight            10337 Elmer Ray                        33.5152
 52  Heavyweight              584 James Douglas                    33.0749
 53  Heavyweight            10526 Melio Bettina                    32.7571
 54  Heavyweight            21587 Kid Riviera                      32.1601
 55  Heavyweight             9041 Max Schmeling                    31.9357
 56  Heavyweight           489762 Andy Ruiz                        31.2361
 57  Heavyweight            16178 Jimmy Ellis                      31.0569
 58  Heavyweight              451 Oliver McCall                    31.0487
 59  Heavyweight             1728 Corrie Sanders                   30.8214
 60  Heavyweight            79357 Alexander Dimitrenko             30.3918
 61  Heavyweight            17739 Cedric Boswell                   29.7262
 62  Heavyweight            10344 Joe Baksi                        29.6987
 63  Heavyweight            11981 Leotis Martin                    29.5581
 64  Heavyweight            16554 Joe Mesi                         29.0239
 65  Heavyweight            12475 Bob Baker                        28.6739
 66  Heavyweight             5038 Zeljko Mavrovic                  28.5269
 67  Heavyweight            32493 Calvin Brock                     28.1945
 68  Heavyweight           381739 Derek Chisora                    28.0736
 69  Heavyweight            12116 Roscoe Toles                     28.0611
 70  Heavyweight           613846 Joseph Parker                    27.9172
 71  Heavyweight             1137 Michael Moorer                   27.1905
 72  Heavyweight             9383 Ernie Terrell                    26.4299
 73  Heavyweight             9384 Zora Folley                      26.3248
 74  Heavyweight             4629 Shannon Briggs                   26.2216
 75  Heavyweight             4681 Brian Nielsen                    26.1984
 76  Heavyweight             9385 Jerry Quarry                     26.1009
 77  Heavyweight            10360 Nino Valdes                      25.8043
 78  Heavyweight              495 Tony Tucker                      24.8222
 79  Heavyweight             7532 Guillermo Jones                  24.4640
 80  Heavyweight             2463 Gerry Cooney                     23.9605
 81  Heavyweight            12131 Buddy Baer                       23.6420
 82  Heavyweight            12077 Max Baer                         23.2770
 83  Heavyweight             4892 Larry Donald                     22.9150
 84  Heavyweight             1869 Donovan Ruddock                  22.6800
 85  Heavyweight            13622 Olle Tandberg                    22.5583
 86  Heavyweight             9381 Karl Mildenberger                22.2826
 87  Heavyweight            14027 Fres Oquendo                     22.1143
 88  Heavyweight             9386 Oscar Bonavena                   22.0455
 89  Heavyweight            37004 Bruce Woodcock                   21.6167
 90  Heavyweight             9379 Henry Cooper                     21.2104
 91  Heavyweight            42016 Oleg Platov                      21.1892
 92  Heavyweight             2039 Herbie Hide                      20.9103
 93  Heavyweight           451505 Robert Helenius                  20.8757
 94  Heavyweight            34277 Eddie Chambers                   20.7212
 95  Heavyweight            24674 Lee Q Murray                     20.6470
 96  Heavyweight              405 Mike Weaver                      20.3001
 97  Heavyweight            12125 Tony Galento                     19.9113
 98  Heavyweight             4345 Andrew Golota                    19.7207
 99  Heavyweight            31256 Volodymyr Vyrchys                19.6577
100  Heavyweight              226 Ron Lyle                         19.6338
pugilisticspecialist
Super Middleweight
Posts: 218
Joined: 19 May 2009, 16:23

Re: Ratings - please read before commenting

Post by pugilisticspecialist »

computerrank wrote: 28 Aug 2022, 03:45
pugilisticspecialist wrote: 27 Aug 2022, 17:51
computerrank wrote: 27 Aug 2022, 06:54 -These ratings are referenced to absolute WHR ratings. So there are no extra points for bouts in lower weight divisions.
So all of Usyk's ~89 points at heavyweight come from just his heavyweight bouts? None of his cruiserweights bouts contribute to that rating?

I don't have a problem with that, I'm just curious.
All bouts outside of Heavyweight disregarded for the peak collection you get:

Code: Select all

  1  Heavyweight             7033 Vitali Klitschko                621.7566
  2  Heavyweight             1853 Lennox Lewis                    576.3809
  3  Heavyweight             7035 Wladimir Klitschko              503.0978
  4  Heavyweight             9032 Rocky Marciano                  403.6989
  5  Heavyweight             9027 Joe Louis                       298.7943
  6  Heavyweight           479205 Tyson Fury                      280.9471
  7  Heavyweight              180 Muhammad Ali                    258.9802
  8  Heavyweight             9012 Ezzard Charles                  172.5565
  9  Heavyweight             9031 Sonny Liston                    170.4930
 10  Heavyweight             9046 Gene Tunney                     150.8838
 11  Heavyweight             1640 Riddick Bowe                    148.6769
 12  Heavyweight           659461 Anthony Joshua                  133.6759
 13  Heavyweight           318081 Alexander Povetkin              120.2972
 14  Heavyweight              499 Evander Holyfield               117.2002
 15  Heavyweight           468841 Deontay Wilder                  113.9808
 16  Heavyweight             9038 Floyd Patterson                 113.9120
 17  Heavyweight              150 Larry Holmes                    110.9543
 18  Heavyweight           155774 David Haye                      100.2137
 19  Heavyweight              474 Mike Tyson                       94.7879
 20  Heavyweight            12711 Ingemar Johansson                90.0997
 21  Heavyweight            19904 Nikolai Valuev                   88.7646
 22  Heavyweight           659772 Oleksandr Usyk                   80.3508
 23  Heavyweight            11028 Jersey Joe Walcott               75.4514
 24  Heavyweight              147 Joe Frazier                      68.8495
 25  Heavyweight             9009 Jack Dempsey                     64.6692
 26  Heavyweight             5981 Ike Ibeabuchi                    60.7590
 27  Heavyweight               90 George Foreman                   59.7514
 28  Heavyweight             4923 Chris Byrd                       58.4570
 29  Heavyweight            24358 Ruslan Chagaev                   58.2345
 30  Heavyweight            21633 Tony Thompson                    55.9346
 31  Heavyweight           113634 Sultan Ibragimov                 53.4355
 32  Heavyweight             4343 David Tua                        51.5477
 33  Heavyweight             4655 John Ruiz                        51.1918
 34  Heavyweight           528949 Luis Ortiz                       50.8653
 35  Heavyweight             9382 Cleveland Williams               49.4008
 36  Heavyweight           511850 Kubrat Pulev                     47.9596
 37  Heavyweight             2011 Henry Akinwande                  47.5796
 38  Heavyweight              505 Frank Bruno                      47.0183
 39  Heavyweight            10529 Bob Pastor                       45.1311
 40  Heavyweight           569964 Dillian Whyte                    40.7072
 41  Heavyweight           212248 Chris Arreola                    38.2335
 42  Heavyweight            12469 Clarence Henry                   37.9826
 43  Heavyweight            32364 Samuel Peter                     36.8405
 44  Heavyweight           498837 Jarrell Miller                   36.3923
 45  Heavyweight              168 Ken Norton                       36.0009
 46  Heavyweight             6070 Hasim Rahman                     35.9768
 47  Heavyweight             7777 Kirk Johnson                     35.3147
 48  Heavyweight            10881 Eddie Machen                     34.6989
 49  Heavyweight            12459 Karel Sys                        34.3694
 50  Heavyweight             5847 Michael Grant                    33.8219
 51  Heavyweight            10337 Elmer Ray                        33.5152
 52  Heavyweight              584 James Douglas                    33.0749
 53  Heavyweight            10526 Melio Bettina                    32.7571
 54  Heavyweight            21587 Kid Riviera                      32.1601
 55  Heavyweight             9041 Max Schmeling                    31.9357
 56  Heavyweight           489762 Andy Ruiz                        31.2361
 57  Heavyweight            16178 Jimmy Ellis                      31.0569
 58  Heavyweight              451 Oliver McCall                    31.0487
 59  Heavyweight             1728 Corrie Sanders                   30.8214
 60  Heavyweight            79357 Alexander Dimitrenko             30.3918
 61  Heavyweight            17739 Cedric Boswell                   29.7262
 62  Heavyweight            10344 Joe Baksi                        29.6987
 63  Heavyweight            11981 Leotis Martin                    29.5581
 64  Heavyweight            16554 Joe Mesi                         29.0239
 65  Heavyweight            12475 Bob Baker                        28.6739
 66  Heavyweight             5038 Zeljko Mavrovic                  28.5269
 67  Heavyweight            32493 Calvin Brock                     28.1945
 68  Heavyweight           381739 Derek Chisora                    28.0736
 69  Heavyweight            12116 Roscoe Toles                     28.0611
 70  Heavyweight           613846 Joseph Parker                    27.9172
 71  Heavyweight             1137 Michael Moorer                   27.1905
 72  Heavyweight             9383 Ernie Terrell                    26.4299
 73  Heavyweight             9384 Zora Folley                      26.3248
 74  Heavyweight             4629 Shannon Briggs                   26.2216
 75  Heavyweight             4681 Brian Nielsen                    26.1984
 76  Heavyweight             9385 Jerry Quarry                     26.1009
 77  Heavyweight            10360 Nino Valdes                      25.8043
 78  Heavyweight              495 Tony Tucker                      24.8222
 79  Heavyweight             7532 Guillermo Jones                  24.4640
 80  Heavyweight             2463 Gerry Cooney                     23.9605
 81  Heavyweight            12131 Buddy Baer                       23.6420
 82  Heavyweight            12077 Max Baer                         23.2770
 83  Heavyweight             4892 Larry Donald                     22.9150
 84  Heavyweight             1869 Donovan Ruddock                  22.6800
 85  Heavyweight            13622 Olle Tandberg                    22.5583
 86  Heavyweight             9381 Karl Mildenberger                22.2826
 87  Heavyweight            14027 Fres Oquendo                     22.1143
 88  Heavyweight             9386 Oscar Bonavena                   22.0455
 89  Heavyweight            37004 Bruce Woodcock                   21.6167
 90  Heavyweight             9379 Henry Cooper                     21.2104
 91  Heavyweight            42016 Oleg Platov                      21.1892
 92  Heavyweight             2039 Herbie Hide                      20.9103
 93  Heavyweight           451505 Robert Helenius                  20.8757
 94  Heavyweight            34277 Eddie Chambers                   20.7212
 95  Heavyweight            24674 Lee Q Murray                     20.6470
 96  Heavyweight              405 Mike Weaver                      20.3001
 97  Heavyweight            12125 Tony Galento                     19.9113
 98  Heavyweight             4345 Andrew Golota                    19.7207
 99  Heavyweight            31256 Volodymyr Vyrchys                19.6577
100  Heavyweight              226 Ron Lyle                         19.6338
So Usyk peaked at 89 as a cruiserweight and peaked at 80 as a heavyweight? Just trying to make things clear.
computerrank
Editor
Editor
Posts: 2241
Joined: 04 Jan 2003, 18:59

Re: Ratings - please read before commenting

Post by computerrank »

pugilisticspecialist wrote: 28 Aug 2022, 04:23 So Usyk peaked at 89 as a cruiserweight and peaked at 80 as a heavyweight? Just trying to make things clear.
- Usyk's highest preliminary (reduced for potential overshooting) rating in a Heavyweight bout was 80. His highest uncorrected rating in a Heavyweight bout was 364.4.
- Usyk's highest preliminary (reduced for potential overshooting) rating in a Cruiserweight bout converted to Heavyweight was 89. His highest uncorrected rating in a Cruiserweight bout was 471.4, which converted to Heavyweight was 273.
JCS
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 5805
Joined: 17 Dec 2004, 13:27

Re: Ratings - please read before commenting

Post by JCS »

Martin,

Maybe this has changed.. but the last time we talked about it, I believe the system (12 round example) considered anything beyond 116-112 x3 or so, as a 'full' win.

I'm wondering if you've revisited this lately? In other words, expanding the zone of scores in which a decision is not credited a full win. Maybe a 120-108 x3 is worth a bit more than say, a 118-110 x3..
computerrank
Editor
Editor
Posts: 2241
Joined: 04 Jan 2003, 18:59

Re: Ratings - please read before commenting

Post by computerrank »

JCS wrote: 04 Sep 2022, 12:42 Martin,

Maybe this has changed.. but the last time we talked about it, I believe the system (12 round example) considered anything beyond 116-112 x3 or so, as a 'full' win.

I'm wondering if you've revisited this lately? In other words, expanding the zone of scores in which a decision is not credited a full win. Maybe a 120-108 x3 is worth a bit more than say, a 118-110 x3..
Jason,
That wasn't changed. The limit to a clear win on points is 0.5 score difference per round per judge. So for a 12 rounds bout and one point awarded per round the normal limit is 117-111 per judge with 6 points difference out of 12 rounds.
JCS
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 5805
Joined: 17 Dec 2004, 13:27

Re: Ratings - please read before commenting

Post by JCS »

computerrank wrote: 04 Sep 2022, 16:42
JCS wrote: 04 Sep 2022, 12:42 Martin,

Maybe this has changed.. but the last time we talked about it, I believe the system (12 round example) considered anything beyond 116-112 x3 or so, as a 'full' win.

I'm wondering if you've revisited this lately? In other words, expanding the zone of scores in which a decision is not credited a full win. Maybe a 120-108 x3 is worth a bit more than say, a 118-110 x3..
Jason,
That wasn't changed. The limit to a clear win on points is 0.5 score difference per round per judge. So for a 12 rounds bout and one point awarded per round the normal limit is 117-111 per judge with 6 points difference out of 12 rounds.
Judges aren't perfect, but I'm wondering if you can squeeze a bit more accuracy out of the system if you look into that a bit deeper... just a thought.

It seems likely the win "value" of a scorecard point diminishes as the gap widens beyond a certain threshold.. but to fully cap it off at 117-111 suggests that a 120-108 is no more telling of a victory and I'm not sure if I'd agree with that.

I'd be curious if you gave 90-95% value at 117-111... and to earn the remaining 5-10%, the fighter has to be even more dominant on the cards.
jujigatame
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 6157
Joined: 30 Oct 2004, 21:08

Re: Ratings - please read before commenting

Post by jujigatame »

Does that mean a 117-111 victory and a 120-108 victory and a TKO victory are all effectively worth the same amount in the current ratings system?
computerrank
Editor
Editor
Posts: 2241
Joined: 04 Jan 2003, 18:59

Re: Ratings - please read before commenting

Post by computerrank »

jujigatame wrote: 05 Sep 2022, 09:49 Does that mean a 117-111 victory and a 120-108 victory and a TKO victory are all effectively worth the same amount in the current ratings system?
Yes, it is - as it was optimized by maximum likelihood calculations.
jujigatame
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 6157
Joined: 30 Oct 2004, 21:08

Re: Ratings - please read before commenting

Post by jujigatame »

computerrank wrote: 05 Sep 2022, 10:32
jujigatame wrote: 05 Sep 2022, 09:49 Does that mean a 117-111 victory and a 120-108 victory and a TKO victory are all effectively worth the same amount in the current ratings system?
Yes, it is - as it was optimized by maximum likelihood calculations.
That's interesting, can you expand on what you mean by that?
JCS
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 5805
Joined: 17 Dec 2004, 13:27

Re: Ratings - please read before commenting

Post by JCS »

jujigatame wrote: 05 Sep 2022, 09:49 Does that mean a 117-111 victory and a 120-108 victory and a TKO victory are all effectively worth the same amount in the current ratings system?
I can't see a 117-111 being graded exactly the same as a KO/TKO....

I can see 120-108 being the same though... maybe a 119-109... as we've seen plenty of dominant fighters give a round away after a shutout.

I'd think a 117-111 and 118-110 are far enough from a KO/TKO that they'd see a slightly diminished win value.
Post Reply