BoxRec

What do you think ? Would you explain, please ?

Holmes would be mobile, busy and use his greater tactical nous to force Joshua to chase him in the early rounds, jabbing his head off.

In the middle rounds Larry ups his output, starts throwing in the right cross and left hook, and then stop a tiring Joshua in the late rounds.

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑17 Sep 2021, 13:38 Holmes would be mobile, busy and use his greater tactical nous to force Joshua to chase him in the early rounds, jabbing his head off.

In the middle rounds Larry ups his output, starts throwing in the right cross and left hook, and then stop a tiring Joshua in the late rounds.

makes it sound easy...though larry was given hard fights by a number of guys no better than aj

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑17 Sep 2021, 14:27

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑17 Sep 2021, 13:38 Holmes would be mobile, busy and use his greater tactical nous to force Joshua to chase him in the early rounds, jabbing his head off.

In the middle rounds Larry ups his output, starts throwing in the right cross and left hook, and then stop a tiring Joshua in the late rounds.

makes it sound easy...though larry was given hard fights by a number of guys no better than aj

I see it the same. AJ would have his moments, but ultimately Larry would win a UD or stop him late.

could well be, it's just funny to me how ppl so often pick dominant, easy as pie outcomes in high level fantasty matchtups, when the guys had plenty of trouble with lesser opponents

Holmes by UD. Superior toughness and fluidness, better jab would be keys.

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑17 Sep 2021, 14:27

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑17 Sep 2021, 13:38 Holmes would be mobile, busy and use his greater tactical nous to force Joshua to chase him in the early rounds, jabbing his head off.

In the middle rounds Larry ups his output, starts throwing in the right cross and left hook, and then stop a tiring Joshua in the late rounds.

makes it sound easy...though larry was given hard fights by a number of guys no better than aj

AJ hits a lot harder than Reinaldo Snipes, that's for sure.

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑17 Sep 2021, 14:27

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑17 Sep 2021, 13:38 Holmes would be mobile, busy and use his greater tactical nous to force Joshua to chase him in the early rounds, jabbing his head off.

In the middle rounds Larry ups his output, starts throwing in the right cross and left hook, and then stop a tiring Joshua in the late rounds.

makes it sound easy...though larry was given hard fights by a number of guys no better than aj

AJ hits a lot harder than Reinaldo Snipes, that's for sure.

DrDuke wrote: ↑17 Sep 2021, 15:25 Holmes by UD. Superior toughness and fluidness, better jab would be keys.

You could also add Larry has the edge in stamina too.

As ever with heavyweights, you can't ever rule out power and this is where Joshua has a big edge.

Nevertheless I'd expect Holmes to win as things stand, but who knows, AJ might yet surprise us with additional touches to his already formidable skills.

I know we keep saying this before every AJ fight, and that doesn't mean it's not true, but just how well Joshua deals with Usyk is going to redefine (yet again) his legacy and how he will be viewed by future generations.

Food for thought, would Larry Holmes’ legendary jab have been anywhere near as effective if his reach wasn’t longer than his opponents, if he didn't enjoy a height advantage for most of his fights and also if he didn't have quicker hand speed than most of the men he shared the ring with?

Let’s not forget that the 6’ 3” Larry Holmes’ average weight at his physical prime, for the first 39 bouts of his career, was 207½lbs. Over the equivalent period, his opponents typically weighed 211½lbs, which is basically the same as modern-day cruiserweights (based on rehydrated ring-weights).

Larry Holmes was also decked numerous times throughout the course of his career, being floored by the likes of Tyson, Shavers, Butterbean, Snipes, Isaac etc. He was hurt several times as well.

A decent argument can be made to suggest that Larry Holmes might have lost two of the bouts he engaged in when he fought the likes of Carl Williams, Tim Witherspoon and Ken Norton.

There was also a six-month window during 1976 where the George Foreman fight seemed likely, but Holmes’ promoter (Don King) and trainer (Richie Giachetti) didn’t feel Larry was ready, which means that the career path of ‘The Easton Assassin’ was carefully-planned.

Anyway, the superior size and athleticism of AJ would be massive obstacles to overcome.

Honestly, I just don’t know.

On a pound-for-pound basis, Larry Homes is a better fighter than the fundamentally-sound AJ, but size really does matter.

And I think the Brit fares better against the American legend than Carl Williams and Tim Witherspoon did. And I really do feel that both of those guys hold a victory over Larry Holmes.

- Now that the kiddies have had their say, I would point out the obvious~Holmesy never held more than an administrative title, duh!

He never beat standing champ having won his title in the ring. He was a single administrative belt holder in a multiple belt era that he helped to proliferate, and when he finally got around to fighting a standing champ, his record is 0-6, 0 KO.

Then there is his Rocky inferiority complex where he couldn't carry Rocky's jock, and then his Big George inferiority complex, soiling himself after he was kicked out of the HOF grounds the day before his induction. When allowed in for induction day, he spends the first half of his hour long speech going off George like he went off on Rocky. Sheesh, he even had his inferiority complex exposed by Butterbean who mocked and knocked him down, I mean really!

He was never rated when George was active, so he certainly wouldn't be rated in AJ's day, nor even qualify to fight AJ, but Usyk qualifies and is doing so if we can get a clean Corona report. Holmesy would've been that administrative Cruiser belt holder where Holmesy would deny Usyk his 5 belt unification like he denied the WBA champs who were all fighting each other to take their losses like men.

Ya could look it as Casey Stengal used to say back in his day, yup

BroughtonRulesRefuge wrote: ↑21 Sep 2021, 03:49 - Now that the kiddies have had their say, I would point out the obvious~Holmesy never held more than an administrative title, duh!

He never beat standing champ having won his title in the ring. He was a single administrative belt holder in a multiple belt era that he helped to proliferate, and when he finally got around to fighting a standing champ, his record is 0-6, 0 KO.

Then there is his Rocky inferiority complex where he couldn't carry Rocky's jock, and then his Big George inferiority complex, soiling himself after he was kicked out of the HOF grounds the day before his induction. When allowed in for induction day, he spends the first half of his hour long speech going off George like he went off on Rocky. Sheesh, he even had his inferiority complex exposed by Butterbean who mocked and knocked him down, I mean really!

He was never rated when George was active, so he certainly wouldn't be rated in AJ's day, nor even qualify to fight AJ, but Usyk qualifies and is doing so if we can get a clean Corona report. Holmesy would've been that administrative Cruiser belt holder where Holmesy would deny Usyk his 5 belt unification like he denied the WBA champs who were all fighting each other to take their losses like men.

Ya could look it as Casey Stengal used to say back in his day, yup

Crikey, and all those years Boxing News and The Ring had "Holmesy" as #1 in the division!

If only they'd had someone as sharp and insighful as you involved in the ratings rather than neophytes like Graham Houston and Nigel Collins. How different it would have been.

Holmes has been with plenty of hard hitting guys, and would box AJs ears off. He had one of the top 3 jabs of all time, and could certainly hit as hard as Ruiz, who exposed AJ. The only thing AJ has over a prime Holmes is a little more power and size. Skill wise he's not close.

could he hit as hard as renaldo snipes i wonder

Told you twice already

No theoretical forum over analyzing needed

Holmes by KO

I took a lot of interest in Larry since his win over Obie English in 1975. I'd watched Obie put up a spirited performance against Eddie Neilson at the National Sporting Club in Regent Street, London the year before and I was keen to discover how Larry would cope with him.

I came to develop great respect for Larry. He was a fine champion and probably underrated relative to other historic champions, but I'm very conscious that there is a massive tendency to exaggerate the qualities of fighters once they have been retired a while.

The only way to get a fair comparison between Holmes and Joshua is to return to the question in twenty years time when people are saying of the reigning champion "So what if he's 6' 10" and 300lbs, he'd never survive more than a few rounds with a great fighter like Joshua. Fighters were much tougher back then and they learned how to box".

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑22 Sep 2021, 21:15 could he hit as hard as renaldo snipes i wonder

did Marquez punch as hard as Cotto?

I think the point is that Reinaldo Snipes was a decent puncher but nothing special and the same could be said of his boxing ability. He had no glaring weaknesses and didn't excel in any department either. Larry was expected to deal with him without drama.

It's heavyweight pro-boxing, it happens. Larry got the job done. I doubt Andy Ruiz will be remembered as a fighter of exceptional quality either.

on that magical mexican muscle mix, could've

was earn shavers a better fighter than josh? what about spoon?

i think holmes prob wins, just not in some stroll. for some reason in mythical fights everything becomes easy when in reality most fights vs that level of opp were not so. holmes even said gerry cooney hurt him and big dude lasted 13

Cooney, snipes, withersoon all had some moments of success against holmes (witherspoon especially)

Joshua is just as good skill wise and bigger size wise than all those guys

Joshuas downfall would be conditioning.. larry crushes him there

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑24 Sep 2021, 10:41 on that magical mexican muscle mix, could've

was earn shavers a better fighter than josh? what about spoon?

i think holmes prob wins, just not in some stroll. for some reason in mythical fights everything becomes easy when in reality most fights vs that level of opp were not so. holmes even said gerry cooney hurt him and big dude lasted 13

on that magical mexican muscle mix, could've
I'm sure you take my point, though, that fighter A knocking a fighter down or out (when another fighter, B, did not do so) does not prove that fighter A is more powerful than fighter B, and by the same token just because fighter C knocks a fighter down, if fighter D is a harder puncher than fighter C it isn't a foregone conclusion that fighter D will knock him out.


was earn shavers a better fighter than josh? what about spoon?

what Shavers and Snipes would have in common would be that they are shorter guys with a good overhand right, which probably was the single punch that Holmes was most vulnerable to (not unlike Tyson Fury, for what that's worth, who had a similar skillset and defensive style to Larry and thus similar vulnerabilities), and not one that would be a particularly high risk-profile in an AJ-Holmes fight

i think holmes prob wins, just not in some stroll. for some reason in mythical fights everything becomes easy when in reality most fights vs that level of opp were not so

fair points, i'm a Holmes fanboy so I'm no unbiased opinion, I just happen to think (again as with Fury in relation to AJ) that Holmes's skillset is a particular nightmare for AJ because of his movement and fluidity

That version of Larry Holmes destroys any version of Joshua we have seen to this point..

It seems like Renaldo Snipes versus Andy Ruiz is the fight we all want to see. I'll take Snipes by SD..