BoxRec

Sheer speculation, but I think he would have had a lot of competitive fights with most of these guys. The light heavweight division was pretty deep.

He would have gotton by guys like Bethea, Quarry, Burnett etc. Though they probably would not have been cakewalks.
Even Foster was starting to slide by then so maybe Monzon would do better that you might think. Mustapha and Saad had not quite reached their best.

Off hand, Conteh would have knocked him out fairly easy I believe. My guess is that like Foster going up to heavyweight, Monzon had too much trouble putting weight on.

Probably he could beat them all, even Foster. Technically, he was better than all of them. The question is how his speed would work with extra pounds.

I think that 15 more pounds is a lot.

Gene Tunney weight 14 pounds over weight with his fight with Soldier Jones
( the preliminary to the Demspey/Carpentier fight)
and he wrote he could not get out of his own way with that added weight(about 189 lbs)
and was one of the worst performences of his pro career.even tho he won it of course.

I don't think he would have had to put on a full 15 pounds to do very well; I'd take him at 167or 168 over a lot of light heavy weights.

That probably would have been the smart thing to do, at least for his first fight or two above middleweight.
Always thought it was interesting that so few middle weight champions went after the light heavyweight title. Fitszimmons and Tiger did it, and Robinson tried, but it was pretty rare. The only thing that I can think of was because the light heavyweight title was not as prestigious as the middleweight title. Still, you would have thought it would have happened more often.

that added weight would have made him sluggish
he just didnt have the physique to be able to put on that much weight
either muscle or just fat.
but suppose he drank over a gallon of water and put weights in his shorts
to make the LH limit at the weigh in
and just fought a LH at his usual weight ?

King Carlos is amongst my top five FAVORITE all time fighters. That said, much of his success was due to his long and gangly build. That advantage would be lost at LHW. He never was a very fast fighter so slowing down even further to fight LHW's during a golden era probably wouldn't have been a wise move and probably why he never did.

I remember hearing the claim that Carlos Monzon had knocked out Joe Frazier during a sparring session.
Anyone know if and when they had sparred ?
This could be true on the account that Frazier had bad cataracts and had to wear a contact lense to see in a fight
particularly before his second fight with George Foreman in 1976.

I'm almost positive Vito Antuofermo was the source of the Monzon-Frazier story; but, he later clarified and said it was a story he heard from someone-he didn't actually witness it.

Frazier absolutely wore a contact lense in his bad eye while boxing.

Joe.Kelly wrote: ↑14 Oct 2021, 17:17

Caractacus wrote: ↑14 Oct 2021, 13:00 I remember hearing the claim that Carlos Monzon had knocked out Joe Frazier during a sparring session.
Anyone know if and when they had sparred ?
This could be true on the account that Frazier had bad cataracts and had to wear a contact lense to see in a fight
particularly before his second fight with George Foreman in 1976.

I cannot possibly believe that Monzon floored or KO'd Joe Frazier in a sparring session. Impossible. What is the source of this information? I'd like to check it out.

Also, I cannot imagine any fighter wearing a contact lens while fighting. The lens would be knocked beneath the fighter's eyelids. Possibly it would get embedded deep in the eye socket, where it could cause damage.

I don’t believe the flooring/KO story.

I absolutely believe the contact lens story. My recollection is that Frazier had contacts in the second Foreman fight.

He’s not alone. Larry Holmes did the same thing in his title fight against Evander Holyfield. Probably not the best idea.

there was talk of Carlos Monzon moving up to LH.
But he would not fight Victor Galindez because they were such good friends.
( dont know about Miguel Cuello tho)
they (Monzon camp)were thinking of fighting John Conteh .

Yeah, it was from a video interview of Vito Antefermo first heard about it years ago.

a lot of Heavyweights use to spar with Mddleweights just to sharpen their reflexes.
Did Joe Frazier ever spar with Benny Briscoe or any other middleweights at his gym ?
maybe it happened around the time Joe Frazier was making a comeback to fight Kallie Knoetze
in Las Vegas ?
that fight was scheduled for Spring 1978( cancelled because Frazier contacted Hepatitis)
so maybe it happened with Monzon in late 1977 ?

I read it was Burnett who decked Monzon.

I love what if scenarios like this...

I'm reminded of when I interviewed Marvin Camel and I pointed out to him that he was in such a rare unique position as the first cruiserweight champion, that he could have simultaneously went after the LHW and HW titles because he was ranked highly already at 175, etc.

It never dawned on him to have tried going for other titles, or big-time matches at the two other weight classes. Having a world title, even if it was viewed as a lesser championship, is still something to bring to the negotiating table especially against another 175 pounder.

As for Monzon, I definitely think he would have beaten the likes of Jerry Evans and Mike Quarry, etc--- but whether he could have beaten the top five legitimate light heavyweights in the world at that time I'm not so sure.

A Fistful of Murder page 78.

While it in no way tarnishes their legacy, the fact that Monzon and Hagler didn't pursue the LHW title leads me strongly to believe that they were not confidant enough to make the attempt.

Mind you, I'm aware that Marvin Camel was good but not the goods. Still, the Mate Parlov bouts and the first Carlos DeLeon fight shows that he certainly had enough skills and abilities to have fought those top 175 pounders if he wanted to--- even if he would have been on the losing end. He also split wins with Matthew Saad Muhammad and just a few fights later that man became light heavyweight champ.

That's why I tend to think he would have had a shot at being light heavyweight champion himself. And yes, I'm aware of the cruiserweight title was basically created not just for financial gain for organizations but for guys who were stuck in the middle--- too small to be heavyweights, and generally not good enough to be a top light heavyweight.

That's why Evander Holyfield was largely written off when he went to heavyweight because even though he was undisputed cruiserweight champion it was saw as a novelty division more than anything else.

It's kind of funny how history repeats itself. Back in the early 20th century when the light heavyweight division was created, it had the same stigma. The original weight classes in boxing was lightweight, welterweight, middleweight and heavyweight. The creation of a new weight class was seen as guys who were not good enough to be middleweight champion or heavyweight champion.

Joe.Kelly wrote: ↑16 Oct 2021, 13:27

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑16 Oct 2021, 02:14 I'm reminded of when I interviewed Marvin Camel...

Curiously, what did Camel say about the second Saad Muhammad fight, which took place in 1976? That bout ended in a draw. But I've heard that the Montana officials pulled some shenanigans to favor their local boy. Allegedly Saad was the rightful winner. I don't know if these rumors are true, but they're what I remember reading in magazines.

The first Saad-Camel fight was televised in the summer of 1976. It was on some obscure TV station that broadcast at night. I recall both guys scored knockdowns, and Saad got the nod on the scorecards.

BoxRec lists it as a win for Camel, not a draw.

I will go through the old blog talk radio archives to pull up the interview I did with Marvin Camel. It's kind of a long and dull interview, with him always referring to himself in the third person, but he was most definitely somebody on my bucket list to interview.

https://www.blogtalkradio.com/all-timeg ... amel-quinn

Okay the link above. It also has interviews with Chuck Wepner and James Quinn McDonagh from the film KNUCKLE.

I originally intended to have Duane Bobick alongside Wepner but I talked to his wife and was informed that Bobick basically had pugilistic dementia and had to be in an adult day care center while his wife worked, etc.

So I never got to do an interview with Bobick, who was definitely high on my bucket list, I had so many questions to ask about the amateurs and his battles with drugs and alcohol, as well as his assessment of opponents.

bwu wrote: ↑14 Oct 2021, 19:28

Joe.Kelly wrote: ↑14 Oct 2021, 17:17

Caractacus wrote: ↑14 Oct 2021, 13:00 I remember hearing the claim that Carlos Monzon had knocked out Joe Frazier during a sparring session.
Anyone know if and when they had sparred ?
This could be true on the account that Frazier had bad cataracts and had to wear a contact lense to see in a fight
particularly before his second fight with George Foreman in 1976.

I cannot possibly believe that Monzon floored or KO'd Joe Frazier in a sparring session. Impossible. What is the source of this information? I'd like to check it out.

Also, I cannot imagine any fighter wearing a contact lens while fighting. The lens would be knocked beneath the fighter's eyelids. Possibly it would get embedded deep in the eye socket, where it could cause damage.

I don’t believe the flooring/KO story.

I absolutely believe the contact lens story. My recollection is that Frazier had contacts in the second Foreman fight.

He’s not alone. Larry Holmes did the same thing in his title fight against Evander Holyfield. Probably not the best idea.

Joe Frazier had cataracts in his left eye going back to just after the 1964 Olympics.
It got really bad in 1975 and was "legally blind" in his left eye and after the Thrilla in Manilla he had surguery on it and had to wear a contact lense in it after wards.
( which George Foreman knocked out during their second fight)
so he would have had trouble seeing a 'Monzon crunching right hand" coming prior to that one would think.
assuming they had sparred that is.

June .30.1975-Madison Square Garden NYC.

maybe it was Tony Licata who knocked down Joe Frazier with a right hand in a sparring session ?
he was the one that had ties to the Frazier camp (trainer Eddie Futch)not Monzon.