BoxRec

These two are in a similar situation. Both had prolonged WBC reigns. Neither was an inarguable man of the division.

Vitali's best scalps for the title:

- Corrie Sanders
- Samuel Peter
- Derek Chisora
- Tomasz Adamek
- Chris Arreola

Wilder's best scalps for the title:

- Luis Ortiz X2
- Bermane Stiverne X2
- Dominic Breazeale
- Chris Arreola

That's how I see it, based on this I pick Vitali. Ortiz' and Stiverne's resumes are thinner than Sanders' and Chisora's ones. The others are about the same. Arreola was fresher against Vitali.

What do you think?

Vitali shades him.

Vitali edges him in quality competition.

And to the contrary I think many people saw him as the man in the division until he stepped away and allowed his younger brother to take over.

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 15:36 Vitali edges him in quality competition.

And to the contrary I think many people saw him as the man in the division until he stepped away and allowed his younger brother to take over.

Vitali was dropped to the candidates' spot after the retirement of Lewis, but he didn't really prove a lot before he retired for the first time. Wlad unified afterwards fighting a better opposition. It is what it is.

Anyone remember how Wilde ducked Tyson Fury opting to go into disgraceful retirement instead?

Vitali shades it, although I never felt he extended himself as much as he could have done, so his ‘reign’ wasn’t that much better than Wilder’s. But absolutely no question who was better overall.

Vitali would have battered Wlad and probably would have been ‘the man’ at heavyweight for a number of years, he just didn’t want to embarrass little brother.

I will go with Wilder very slightly. Vitali's signature fight came in the loss to Lewis before being crowned. And the reign did not end with a loss or ever include facing the other top man in the division. He gets a pass for Wlad being his brother to some degree but not for walking away as champ.....emeritus for quite awhile if I remember correctly. And I also remember many times after walking away that the Lewis 2 bout and big money numbers were talked about. He could have fought more bouts at the end for sure.

Do what you gotta do as a man and retire whenever you want. But that is also my philosophy as a boxing fan. I'm not going to rate a reign higher when it ends like Vitali did with his. I'm gonna deduct a few points for what I consider to be a low blow to the division and sport. And I am going to add some points to Wilder for Fury #1 and #2 as he was reigning champion for both fights and that is the way a reign should end. Against another top of the line man and not walking away while only being willing to face Lewis to return.

Vitali by a good margin, and Vitali’s resume is seldom better than anyone by a good margin. His loyalty to his younger brother definitely hindered his career.

punchoutsb wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 17:50 Vitali by a good margin, and Vitali’s resume is seldom better than anyone by a good margin. His loyalty to his younger brother definitely hindered his career.

Retaining the title via DRAW with Fury is the best result of both men's careers. Neither guy has any result on their record otherwise that comes close to matching that DRAW. I know many people think Fury won but there was no clear winner there and the DRAW result was very legit for that fight.

Wilder putting down Fury....what 4 times??? 2 in the reign and those 2 to retain. That is impressive stuff on any resume as Tyson Fury is already an all time great taking down 2 long reigning champs and every belt there is.

That title defense is something that can never be taken from Wilder and it will grow in value as Fury cements himself more and more as an all time great champion. Wilder's reign resume will not stop improving until Fury loses or retires. That is a very impressive defense.

both around 45 fights and hardly a good opponent among them

wilders best 3 beaten are prob ortiz, bermane the blob, and brezeale

vitalis prob sanders, peter, and maybe adamek? or hide?


pretty weak the both of them tbh

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 18:06 both around 45 fights and hardly a good opponent among them

wilders best 3 beaten are prob ortiz, bermane the blob, and brezeale

vitalis prob sanders, peter, and maybe adamek? or hide?


pretty weak the both of them tbh

But vitali is the theoretical fight champion of the universe, surely that counts

vitali is the 'eternal world heavyweight champion' according to the wbc, deontay needs to step up

https://www.boxingnewsonline.net/vitali ... y-the-wbc/

Kronkpride wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 18:03

punchoutsb wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 17:50 Vitali by a good margin, and Vitali’s resume is seldom better than anyone by a good margin. His loyalty to his younger brother definitely hindered his career.

Retaining the title via DRAW with Fury is the best result of both men's careers. Neither guy has any result on their record otherwise that comes close to matching that DRAW. I know many people think Fury won but there was no clear winner there and the DRAW result was very legit for that fight.

Wilder putting down Fury....what 4 times??? 2 in the reign and those 2 to retain. That is impressive stuff on any resume as Tyson Fury is already an all time great taking down 2 long reigning champs and every belt there is.

That title defense is something that can never be taken from Wilder and it will grow in value as Fury cements himself more and more as an all time great champion. Wilder's reign resume will not stop improving until Fury loses or retires. That is a very impressive defense.

Everyone knows that draw was bs. Everyone also knows that as thin as Vitali’s resume is, it is miles better than Wilder both in totality and in title reign.

Beating Sanders is the best result of either man.

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 18:23 vitali is the 'eternal world heavyweight champion' according to the wbc, deontay needs to step up

https://www.boxingnewsonline.net/vitali ... y-the-wbc/

F'n Silly Man and the belts. When Fury trashes the WBC belt and just moves on as the Completely Unified Lineal HW Champ Silly Man will probably be pissed. But then after Fury retires undefeated Silly Man will make him the Double Diamond Triple Platinum Eternal WBC HW Champion or something.

punchoutsb wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 18:34

Kronkpride wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 18:03

punchoutsb wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 17:50 Vitali by a good margin, and Vitali’s resume is seldom better than anyone by a good margin. His loyalty to his younger brother definitely hindered his career.

Retaining the title via DRAW with Fury is the best result of both men's careers. Neither guy has any result on their record otherwise that comes close to matching that DRAW. I know many people think Fury won but there was no clear winner there and the DRAW result was very legit for that fight.

Wilder putting down Fury....what 4 times??? 2 in the reign and those 2 to retain. That is impressive stuff on any resume as Tyson Fury is already an all time great taking down 2 long reigning champs and every belt there is.

That title defense is something that can never be taken from Wilder and it will grow in value as Fury cements himself more and more as an all time great champion. Wilder's reign resume will not stop improving until Fury loses or retires. That is a very impressive defense.

Everyone knows that draw was bs. Everyone also knows that as thin as Vitali’s resume is, it is miles better than Wilder both in totality and in title reign.

Beating Sanders is the best result of either man.

You have to let the hate for Wilder go dude. I could argue all day that Wilder should have got the KO in the first fight, but it's pointless. Fury proved he is better.

He did defend 11 times. Fury just defended his title for the first time ever. Time to move on, and look forward to new match ups.

punchoutsb wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 18:34

Kronkpride wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 18:03

punchoutsb wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 17:50 Vitali by a good margin, and Vitali’s resume is seldom better than anyone by a good margin. His loyalty to his younger brother definitely hindered his career.

Retaining the title via DRAW with Fury is the best result of both men's careers. Neither guy has any result on their record otherwise that comes close to matching that DRAW. I know many people think Fury won but there was no clear winner there and the DRAW result was very legit for that fight.

Wilder putting down Fury....what 4 times??? 2 in the reign and those 2 to retain. That is impressive stuff on any resume as Tyson Fury is already an all time great taking down 2 long reigning champs and every belt there is.

That title defense is something that can never be taken from Wilder and it will grow in value as Fury cements himself more and more as an all time great champion. Wilder's reign resume will not stop improving until Fury loses or retires. That is a very impressive defense.

Everyone knows that draw was bs. Everyone also knows that as thin as Vitali’s resume is, it is miles better than Wilder both in totality and in title reign.

Beating Sanders is the best result of either man.

I am a huge Fury fan and have always despised Wilder and looked forward to his defeat. I had Fury winning close by 2 points at the time but it was easily in the area of a draw. 113 113 to me was a very legit and justifiable scorecard. The card that had Wilder winning....definitely the least legit card of all. But if it were 113 113 x2 and a slight Fury win the result is the same.

There was no robbery here except for by Fury on himself. Not staying on his feet the last round cost him time at the WBC helm. Losing round 12 a clear 10-8 and barely beating a count is no way to take the titles either. It was too close coming into the final round to drop 2 points across the board.

That round 12 is the only part of Tyson Fury's career that can be considered a failure except his time outside the ring as a fat slob all coked up. But he has came back from it all and the story is perfect the way he really took the belts in fight #2. He deserved them after winning the right way. Fight #1 was not how you lift a belt off a long reigning champion.

Give me a break on Sanders too. After losing to Rahman he didn't even earn the title shot at Wlad. He was a selected schmuck and benefited from Wlad at times prior to Emanuel Steward and afterwards too...of not fighting the right style to win and keep winning. Wlad never even would have became what he did without Steward. He would have been clipped again by somebody average to below average if he did not start fighting the high win percentage style Emanuel guided him into.

Wlad is a smart guy overall but he fought like a moron without Manny. He goes down as a legend now but more of his credit goes to the trainer than most other greats.

- Corrie Sanders: Sanders had knocked out Wladimir so easily had the best win on his resume. Vitali stopped him after shipping some good shots early on.
- Samuel Peter: People forget but I'm pretty sure most people were picking Peter to win this as it was Vitali's first fight back after a long time away from the ring, and it was considered a foolish move to go straight for the title. Vitali beat the crap out of Peter, which was exciting for the time.
- Derek Chisora: Probably as hungry and motivated as you will ever see Chisora. He gave Vitali hell in there.
- Tomasz Adamek: Good on paper but Adamek started out as a light heavyweight before moving through cruiser and into heavyweight where he was made to look like a little boy by the ginormous Vitali and was beaten like one. Not really competitive.
- Chris Arreola: Arreola was the American's fat contender of choice at the time: the Ring magazine loved him. Vitali made him look like the limited blob he was and made him cry. Interestingly, Arreola also fought as a LHW, but as an amateur. Obviously enjoyed the 'American diet' a little too much.

Wilder's best scalps for the title:

- Luis Ortiz X2: Ortiz was considered a danger man that nobody wanted to fight and I can recall a Fury interview where he brought up Ortiz as probably the best contender out there and head of the 'who need's him?' club. Ortiz really put it on Wilder too, but when put down stayed down, didn't he?
- Bermane Stiverne X2: Stiverne was a solid lower top 10 fighter at the tail end of the Klitschko era. There were a lot of mediocre fighters kicking about, and Stiverne was one of them, although he was far from awful. I remember reading a piece about the up and coming new North American hopes and Stiverne was mentioned in there. After Wilder beat him he ended up being a kind of fat punchbag who didn't really seem to train and had a surly attitude. Wilder's KO of him was impressive in the rematch, simply because he showed himself to still be useful and lasted a few rounds with Joe Joyce didn't he? So he had talent. Just not the commitment.
- Dominic Breazeale: I don't want to be mean about Dom but he's not a boxer is he? Just a big powerful bloke with heart. He was always getting banjo'd.
- Chris Arreola: another mediocre fighter, and a much more faded version than the one Vitali manhandled.

Neither has the most amazing resume but there have been worse world champions. You have to go with Vitali, don't you? Especially a stoppage of Sanders on his resume.

Imagine underachier corrie sanders being a hof best win

Vitali was odds favorite over peter

Bandog wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 18:45

punchoutsb wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 18:34

Kronkpride wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 18:03

Retaining the title via DRAW with Fury is the best result of both men's careers. Neither guy has any result on their record otherwise that comes close to matching that DRAW. I know many people think Fury won but there was no clear winner there and the DRAW result was very legit for that fight.

Wilder putting down Fury....what 4 times??? 2 in the reign and those 2 to retain. That is impressive stuff on any resume as Tyson Fury is already an all time great taking down 2 long reigning champs and every belt there is.

That title defense is something that can never be taken from Wilder and it will grow in value as Fury cements himself more and more as an all time great champion. Wilder's reign resume will not stop improving until Fury loses or retires. That is a very impressive defense.

Everyone knows that draw was bs. Everyone also knows that as thin as Vitali’s resume is, it is miles better than Wilder both in totality and in title reign.

Beating Sanders is the best result of either man.

You have to let the hate for Wilder go dude. I could argue all day that Wilder should have got the KO in the first fight, but it's pointless. Fury proved he is better.

He did defend 11 times. Fury just defended his title for the first time ever. Time to move on, and look forward to new match ups.

I’m not sure who you are, but feel free to argue Wilder should have got the KO if it makes you feel better.

I’m not sure why you’d assume I hate Wilder. I’m just sharing my opinion. Wilder’s resume is not good. Vitali’s is also bad, but it’s better than Wilders. Both are extremely overrated based on very few actual accomplish.

Not sure why I assume you hate Wilder? Read your own posts. As far as who I am, does that matter? I've been watching boxing since the late 60s.

His resume is as good as many heavyweights. Opinions are never wrong, everyone has one.

they both have pretty stinky resumes for long reigning champs, theyre basically shitting in the same bowl

wilder beat maybe 2 top 10 fighters his whole 45 fight career, vitali not much better

aj beat brezeale after 2 years pro, in what was considered a soft defence, yet brezeale would become one of wilder's career best wins in 45 fights and 13 years. with vitali, you have a guy like chisora being among his best

both klit and wilder had by far their biggest fights, and most laudable efforts, in getting stopped

fury > aj and wlad > vit and deontay

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 21:40 they both have pretty stinky resumes for long reigning champs, theyre basically shitting in the same bowl

wilder beat maybe 2 top 10 fighters his whole 45 fight career, vitali not much better

aj beat brezeale after 2 years pro, in what was considered a soft defence, yet brezeale would become one of wilder's career best wins in 45 fights and 13 years. with vitali, you have a guy like chisora being among his best

both klit and wilder had by far their biggest fights, and most laudable efforts, in getting stopped

fury > aj and wlad > vit and deontay

AJ having the shot at Wlad is the difference with him and Wilder. Wlad f'd up tactically too and didn't go get the finish when it was right there for him. He never could properly self determine where he was in a fight and what he should be doing. He doesn't have the natural boxing brain of Fury. For as good as Wlad's career was overall it could have and I think definitely would have been much better if he was a Steward boxer the whole way. When Manny became his main eyes and brains in the fights he saw and knew what to do at a massively greater level.

I think Wilder would have sparked Wlad anytime without Emanuel too if he survived any of Wlad's big stuff landed. And I think a bit younger and leaner Wilder could take some big Klit shots. He has a very good chin until his body fails when overweight and he burns his legs out. Wlad is just going to make some kind of mistake and boom it is over vs Wilder. He;d need to be on point all the way to beat Wilder and I never saw that without Emanuel instructing him through the fights.

Kronkpride wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 18:50

punchoutsb wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 18:34

Kronkpride wrote: ↑10 Oct 2021, 18:03

Retaining the title via DRAW with Fury is the best result of both men's careers. Neither guy has any result on their record otherwise that comes close to matching that DRAW. I know many people think Fury won but there was no clear winner there and the DRAW result was very legit for that fight.

Wilder putting down Fury....what 4 times??? 2 in the reign and those 2 to retain. That is impressive stuff on any resume as Tyson Fury is already an all time great taking down 2 long reigning champs and every belt there is.

That title defense is something that can never be taken from Wilder and it will grow in value as Fury cements himself more and more as an all time great champion. Wilder's reign resume will not stop improving until Fury loses or retires. That is a very impressive defense.

Everyone knows that draw was bs. Everyone also knows that as thin as Vitali’s resume is, it is miles better than Wilder both in totality and in title reign.

Beating Sanders is the best result of either man.

I am a huge Fury fan and have always despised Wilder and looked forward to his defeat. I had Fury winning close by 2 points at the time but it was easily in the area of a draw. 113 113 to me was a very legit and justifiable scorecard. The card that had Wilder winning....definitely the least legit card of all. But if it were 113 113 x2 and a slight Fury win the result is the same.

There was no robbery here except for by Fury on himself. Not staying on his feet the last round cost him time at the WBC helm. Losing round 12 a clear 10-8 and barely beating a count is no way to take the titles either. It was too close coming into the final round to drop 2 points across the board.

That round 12 is the only part of Tyson Fury's career that can be considered a failure except his time outside the ring as a fat slob all coked up. But he has came back from it all and the story is perfect the way he really took the belts in fight #2. He deserved them after winning the right way. Fight #1 was not how you lift a belt off a long reigning champion.

You can believe that a draw was a fair result (that's a matter of opinion), but pretending two cards of 113-113 is a fair reflection is nonsense. It would just be a slightly more sugared way to justify the robbery. Boxing is scored round by round, opinions on beating a champion "the right way" shouldn't come into it.