BoxRec

Anyone see he's been in Virgil Hunter and Eddie Reynoso's gyms? Checking out some new trainers to revitalise him hopefully.

Sampling the Mexican beef?

BigDoofus wrote: ↑17 Oct 2021, 09:39 Sampling the Mexican beef?

Think AJ could teach Eddie Reynoso a thing there.

It would make sense though the way Eddie H kisses Eddie R's arse.

not enough time for a new trainer to make enough impact before the rematch

Usyk via KO

stevec@france wrote: ↑17 Oct 2021, 12:36 not enough time for a new trainer to make enough impact before the rematch

Tyson Fury had less than half the time at Kronk with the Sugar Hill crew leading up to the 2nd Wilder fight, and look how he transformed?
Then look at the difference between Ruiz #1 and #2, same trainer but different fight. So we know AJ can adapt.

KiwiRider wrote: ↑17 Oct 2021, 14:04

stevec@france wrote: ↑17 Oct 2021, 12:36 not enough time for a new trainer to make enough impact before the rematch

Tyson Fury had less than half the time at Kronk with the Sugar Hill crew leading up to the 2nd Wilder fight, and look how he transformed?
Then look at the difference between Ruiz #1 and #2, same trainer but different fight. So we know AJ can adapt.

Was it easier to adapt against a guy who’d been partying and eating non stop since the first fight than it will be against a serious dude like Usyk ?

CaptainSpacerod wrote: ↑17 Oct 2021, 14:32

KiwiRider wrote: ↑17 Oct 2021, 14:04

stevec@france wrote: ↑17 Oct 2021, 12:36 not enough time for a new trainer to make enough impact before the rematch

Tyson Fury had less than half the time at Kronk with the Sugar Hill crew leading up to the 2nd Wilder fight, and look how he transformed?
Then look at the difference between Ruiz #1 and #2, same trainer but different fight. So we know AJ can adapt.

Was it easier to adapt against a guy who’d been partying and eating non stop since the first fight than it will be against a serious dude like Usyk ?

Style wise it was a very different fight for AJ. Even if the same Ruiz from the first fight it would have been still a wide decision. Thing is, my point was that AJ can make adjustments, and that the following 6 months is plenty of time for a new trainer to make their mark on a fighter who can, and is motivated to make changes.

KiwiRider wrote: ↑17 Oct 2021, 14:04

stevec@france wrote: ↑17 Oct 2021, 12:36 not enough time for a new trainer to make enough impact before the rematch

Tyson Fury had less than half the time at Kronk with the Sugar Hill crew leading up to the 2nd Wilder fight, and look how he transformed?
Then look at the difference between Ruiz #1 and #2, same trainer but different fight. So we know AJ can adapt.

tysons adaptable tho. the trainers hes been with over the years..... brian hughes, brendan ingle, hughie, peter, mccracken, davidson the list goes on and on.

KiwiRider wrote: ↑17 Oct 2021, 15:39 Style wise it was a very different fight for AJ. Even if the same Ruiz from the first fight it would have been still a wide decision. Thing is, my point was that AJ can make adjustments, and that the following 6 months is plenty of time for a new trainer to make their mark on a fighter who can, and is motivated to make changes.

You could be right and I absolutely agree that seeking out somebody new to bring a different game plan is the right thing for AJ to do. But often in fights when things get tough a fighter forgets his new found tactics and strategy and reverts to type and that’s a lot more likely to happen to AJ against Usyk than it was against Ruiz.

Training AJ should be fairly simple. You don’t try teach him much, other than the front foot game vs a southpaw, but most importantly your job is to tell him when to box and when to bang. If you give him proper instructions in those areas he is a handfuls

Steveh583 wrote: ↑17 Oct 2021, 15:46

KiwiRider wrote: ↑17 Oct 2021, 14:04

stevec@france wrote: ↑17 Oct 2021, 12:36 not enough time for a new trainer to make enough impact before the rematch

Tyson Fury had less than half the time at Kronk with the Sugar Hill crew leading up to the 2nd Wilder fight, and look how he transformed?
Then look at the difference between Ruiz #1 and #2, same trainer but different fight. So we know AJ can adapt.

tysons adaptable tho. the trainers hes been with over the years..... brian hughes, brendan ingle, hughie, peter, mccracken, davidson the list goes on and on.

That's a big list alright Steve.
I still think 5-6 months with a new trainer is enough to make some changes for AJ.
Not reinventing him of course, but adapting.
As has been said, deep water can make guys revert back to type, and AJ seems to be a safety first guy now, when the heat is on. That would be my concern.

His biggest problem, far as I can see, is he's always fought in short bursts. He unloads on power shots, and needs several moments to recover. If I was to train the man, it'd be ultra-cardio so that he could fight hard for longer periods of time.

The trade off would be a loss in muscles but as far as I'm concerned that's a good thing. And even if he lost more muscles he's still going to hit harder than anyone Usyk has ever fought anyways.

Nope. What that man needs is complete and total isolation from the glitz and glamor, doing an old-fashioned hard-nosed training camp where there is no cameras, no interviews, just hard work to the point of making him puke.

Bring in a bunch of light heavyweights and cruiserweights to spar with, maybe even some super middleweights. Put 20oz gloves on him and tell him, "Now get them and nail them to the floor." If you can catch someone faster than the Ukrainian there is no problems to be seen.

No one will ever help Joshua to avoid a bitter repeat of the sweet science lesson in the rematch against the Ukrainian gradmaster!

However, Joshua should only praise the lord and Wilder for these two lessons taking place instead of a total obliteration by the Gypsy King.

CaptainSpacerod wrote: ↑17 Oct 2021, 14:32

KiwiRider wrote: ↑17 Oct 2021, 14:04

stevec@france wrote: ↑17 Oct 2021, 12:36 not enough time for a new trainer to make enough impact before the rematch

Tyson Fury had less than half the time at Kronk with the Sugar Hill crew leading up to the 2nd Wilder fight, and look how he transformed?
Then look at the difference between Ruiz #1 and #2, same trainer but different fight. So we know AJ can adapt.

Was it easier to adapt against a guy who’d been partying and eating non stop since the first fight than it will be against a serious dude like Usyk ?

Spot on post.

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑17 Oct 2021, 16:30 His biggest problem, far as I can see, is he's always fought in short bursts. He unloads on power shots, and needs several moments to recover. If I was to train the man, it'd be ultra-cardio so that he could fight hard for longer periods of time.

The trade off would be a loss in muscles but as far as I'm concerned that's a good thing. And even if he lost more muscles he's still going to hit harder than anyone Usyk has ever fought anyways.

Nope. What that man needs is complete and total isolation from the glitz and glamor, doing an old-fashioned hard-nosed training camp where there is no cameras, no interviews, just hard work to the point of making him puke.

Bring in a bunch of light heavyweights and cruiserweights to spar with, maybe even some super middleweights. Put 20oz gloves on him and tell him, "Now get them and nail them to the floor." If you can catch someone faster than the Ukrainian there is no problems to be seen.

I would agree with all of that but a couple of cavaets.

1) That aint going to take a few months to fix - indeed whilst your theory is good - I think there is obviously the genetic aspect and I think Joshua will never be a marathon runner or mr Aerobic. Caster Semenya cannot run a world class 5 or 10 K, Mo Farah will never be a gold medal Marathon runner contender (good, world class but is off the best) - no matter how they train for it - So yes whilst that's his weakness and what he needs to do - will it make him a 12 round Wayne McCullough - probably not - but he needs to try and improve it.

2) 20 K gloves - this has its pitfuls also - it makes it harder to the sparring partner to catch AJ. It can (IMO) teach bad habits defensively but you can get away with it cos you have balloons on your hands. Usyk also took advantage of Joshua's defensive issues.

On a side, re Usyk - I would be very very intrigued how Usyk and the fact he appears to get fresher as the fight progresses would test this 19 stone's version of Fury's stamina. I saw Wilder's first round vs Fury and I thought Usyk is a fighter who 1) would have the stamina to sustain that and 2) When gets tagged will not revert to type or get flustered he has so much experience. He didn't let a nasty nasty cut vs Joshua phase him or even when Joshua had a mini decent spell - Usyk always looked in control.

whiskey wrote: ↑17 Oct 2021, 17:32

CaptainSpacerod wrote: ↑17 Oct 2021, 14:32

KiwiRider wrote: ↑17 Oct 2021, 14:04

Tyson Fury had less than half the time at Kronk with the Sugar Hill crew leading up to the 2nd Wilder fight, and look how he transformed?
Then look at the difference between Ruiz #1 and #2, same trainer but different fight. So we know AJ can adapt.

Was it easier to adapt against a guy who’d been partying and eating non stop since the first fight than it will be against a serious dude like Usyk ?

Spot on post.

Add also the fact that in fight 1, Joshua for the first 2 and bit rounds was boxing well vs Ruiz - it wasn't a punch from the gods I know, but clearly the worst thing Joshua did was hurt Ruiz. I think fight 1 is getting as mythical as Fury vs Klitchsko in that people think it was a clinic by Ruiz - fact is, it was about 2 seconds away from being AJ's dream US debut with pretty "perfect" display and we would all be slagging off Hearn for bringing in a fat late replacement who beat nobody as a pro.

stujones wrote: ↑17 Oct 2021, 17:48

whiskey wrote: ↑17 Oct 2021, 17:32

CaptainSpacerod wrote: ↑17 Oct 2021, 14:32
Was it easier to adapt against a guy who’d been partying and eating non stop since the first fight than it will be against a serious dude like Usyk ?

Spot on post.

Add also the fact that in fight 1, Joshua for the first 2 and bit rounds was boxing well vs Ruiz - it wasn't a punch from the gods I know, but clearly the worst thing Joshua did was hurt Ruiz. I think fight 1 is getting as mythical as Fury vs Klitchsko in that people think it was a clinic by Ruiz - fact is, it was about 2 seconds away from being AJ's dream US debut with pretty "perfect" display and we would all be slagging off Hearn for bringing in a fat late replacement who beat nobody as a pro.

Agreed Stu

AJ apparently used the ‘Froch vs Abraham’ blueprint in the rematch, but it was nothing like.

He was so terrified it was worrying.

AJ was saved by the bell against Usyk too. He is finished now. Shades of David Price coming into his psyche.

Gun shy and timid.

Going to America is a good idea and I wouldn't usually say that. Freshen things up.

I've never been a fan of AJ, always on the Fury train, but people are sometimes fickle after defeat. He is quite capable of beating Usyk in the rematch if he gets his tactics right and imposes himself physically, and let's his hands go.

Yes there are big question marks over his chin and ability to withstand pressure. But if he can get back to more of the old version of AJ pre Ruiz that comes to seek and destroy, I wouldn't write him off.

His best bet would be to just listen to McCracken and not everybody else in his corner.

Frostieballs wrote: ↑17 Oct 2021, 18:26 His best bet would be to just listen to McCracken and not everybody else in his corner.

THIS ,,,, Stuff em all get rid of them all , its not just AJ its boxers from every weight , who can't do the distance if its hard , and WHY simple , too many cooks in the kitchen , all sprouting there words of wisdom , get rid of his dietiscn , he's a heavyweight he don't need that bullshit , just needs to put healthy food in his belly and not too much of it , eating 200 grams of carrot and weighed out 100 grams of celery aint gonna make him a better boxer ,, get rid of his weight trainer its obvious they do too many weights , he's like a robot ,,, get rid of his instagram pad man , who's claim to fame is he spent 5 minuites in a gym and 2 years posting about himself ,, get a pad man who's gonna fire back with a clip around the ear when he throws a shot wrong .

Just go back to old fashioned training , you don't see race horses kicking bags do you ,,, he just needs plenty of roadwork , plenty of sparring , sparring and more sparring , followed by plenty of educated pads , plenty of bagwork , including speed work on bag and heavy bag , combined , lots of technical sparring , has well has open sparring ,, ,,, he just needs to be punching punching and punching ,, not do a thing in that gym that does'nt relate to the ring .

BUT above all he needs a trainer who is gonna tell him how it is , leave the praise and worship to his mom and his mates , the trainers job is too tell him in no unconditional terms , where he is going wrong and what he needs to improve , and AJ should be man enough and adult enough to know if he's not being told bluntly he's employed a yeas man who's only after the good wage and the association of being with the champ .

Think the problem here is Mckracken knows , after all look at Froch and the condition he was in Mckracken knows what to do , i think he justs lets things go because AJ is in charge and listens to wankers more than the coach ,, Mcrackens just happy to take his money , probably fed up with it all ,

I'm all for changing gyms, changing trainers.
Everybody decent has something to offer.

as much to give him some confidence back as much as any actual tactical/training plan changes id guess

'ya usyk beat me pretty good, but now i've got a new team and things will be different'

stujones wrote: ↑17 Oct 2021, 17:48

whiskey wrote: ↑17 Oct 2021, 17:32

CaptainSpacerod wrote: ↑17 Oct 2021, 14:32
Was it easier to adapt against a guy who’d been partying and eating non stop since the first fight than it will be against a serious dude like Usyk ?

Spot on post.

Add also the fact that in fight 1, Joshua for the first 2 and bit rounds was boxing well vs Ruiz - it wasn't a punch from the gods I know, but clearly the worst thing Joshua did was hurt Ruiz. I think fight 1 is getting as mythical as Fury vs Klitchsko in that people think it was a clinic by Ruiz - fact is, it was about 2 seconds away from being AJ's dream US debut with pretty "perfect" display and we would all be slagging off Hearn for bringing in a fat late replacement who beat nobody as a pro.

totally agree, aj fought stupid, got wild after hurting ruiz, and then once he was hurt it changed everything. it wasnt ruiz putting on some masterclass from start to finish. aj won the first 2 and then had ruiz down in the 3rd. its why it was easy for me to pick aj in the rematch, as long as he kept it long and measured he was always going to have far too much for ruiz

but vs usyk, usyk really had him from the start, aside from a few of the middle rounds, aj was controlled, outboxed, and by the end even getting a bit of a beating

usyk is someone who has shown elite boxing and discipline his whole career, and as an amateur and wsb fighter too. and the ability to adapt to opponents on the go. ruiz on the other hand doesnt have a single impressive win vs anyone of note, outside the aj fight, and entering that was known mostly for fighting uninspired and out of shape

reversing the result vs usyk is going to be a much tougher challenge than the ruiz 2 was

btw virgil hunter is a guy who seems to mainly implement safety first approaches. hes talked clearly about how fighters shouldnt listen to fans who want them to sacrifice their own health for entertainment. not sure that's really the guy who should be leading aj into a rematch

i think someone who will help him add a bit of dog and aggression (though not this 'aj just needs to go all out' and unload stuff) would be best