BoxRec

Joe.Kelly wrote: ↑21 Oct 2021, 19:55

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑21 Oct 2021, 19:05 Back then to be a heavyweight all you had to be was 176 pounds and up--- yes the cruiserweight division was in it's infancy but it was largely ignored just like bridgerweight is given no attention by serious boxing fans and organizations.

I disagree with this statement. By 1978, most of the serious heavyweights were weighing around 210 to 220 lbs. Many, in fact, weighed in the 220 to 227 lbs range. There were very, very few guys who weighed less than 210 lbs by this point in time. And they were all proven to be too small to cope with the new generation of bigger heavyweights that had emerged in the 1970s.

Think about it. In the mid-to-late 1970s, who were the small heavyweights, and how did they fare? The last of the previous, generation of smaller fighters were Jerry Quarry and Jimmy Ellis. But by the mid-1970s, both guys were exposed as being too small to pose a serious challenge to the new, bigger guys. Quarry obviously lacked the size to cope with big men Muhammad Ali, Joe Frazier, and Ken Norton. As for Ellis, he looked like a middleeight in his defeats to Frazier, Ali, Ron Lyle, Earnie Shavers, and Joe Bugner.

There was Bob Foster, who fought Frazier and Ali in 1970 and 1972 respectively. But Foster was blown away by both heavyweights. They rolled him over as if he was a skinny stick man. At 6'4", Foster had height and reach, but he completely lacked the weight and body mass to succeed as a heavyweight.

Another smallish guy was Howard "KO" Smith, who weighed in at 205 lbs or so. But Smith didn't have the size to cope with Shavers, a 210 pounder who had an enormous upper-body and a devastating punch. There was British heavyweight Bunny Johnson, who weighed 187 lbs or so. But Johnson was beaten down by Richard Dunn and Duane Bobick, both of whom weighed more than 210 lbs. Another good little guy was Fred Houpe (aka Young Sanford). But Houpe, at just 195 lbs., was hopelessly too small as proven by his losses to Bobick and Larry Holmes. Another guy I can think of was Ibar Arrington, who weighed 195 lbs. However he was too small to cope with bigger guys Holmes and Gerrie Coetzee. Finally, there was the talented but smallish Randy Stephens, who at 204 lbs or so, simply lacked the size to trouble Coetzee, Knoetze, Norton, and Bernardo Mercado.

Leon Spinks represented the last charge of the by-gone era of smaller heavyweights. Leon weighed only 198 lbs when he beat Ali for the title in 1978. But that fight's outcome was determined by the fact that Ali was hopelessly out of shape, and not because of Spinks's physical abilities. In fact, in subsequent fights, Spinks was turned into roadkill by Coetzee and Holmes.

Another thing about all these lighter heavyweights: they were also too short to hold their own with the new, bigger guys of the 1970s. All the small men I listed here stood no more than six feet or 6' 1" tall. That was pretty short in an era when almost all of the top-ten contenders stood 6'3" to 6'4."

I'd say the sunset of the era when a heavyweight could stand 6'1" and weigh 200 lbs was the 1960s. In that decade, boxers who weighed 180 to 190 lbs could still cope with lots of the top guys of that time. But by the 1970s, the new breed of big guys were the norm, and the smaller men simply didn't fare well against them.

Joe.Kelly wrote: ↑23 Oct 2021, 13:55

AngryGoon38 wrote: ↑23 Oct 2021, 01:00 Anyway though,what do you make of 169 lb Billy Conn out boxing Joe Louis for 12 rounds in 1941...?!

You've got a point, but there's a big difference between Rossman and Conn. Rossman was very much a flat-footed fighter whose overall body movement was pretty mechanical. Rossman's speed was more or less average, maybe a little better. Everything Mike did in the ring was oriented toward landing the slow but stiff left jab, and then following up with heavy shots from both hands. Therefore, stylistically and athletically, Rossman was different from the speedy, fleet-footed, elusive and slick boxing Conn.

I remember reading a boxing magazine article focused on Conn in 1975. It was World/International Boxing. Conn was interviewed to get his opinion of Pedro Soto's chances of succeeding at heavyweight. Soto was a smallish NYC heavyweight from the mid-1970s who needed to make a decision about fighting at light-heavyweight or heavyweight. World/International Boxing was giving Soto a build-up.

Conn explained that light-heavyweights who campaign at heavyweight need to make sure they don't get hit with any punches. Not even a single punch. According to Conn, the secret was not to let a single punch slip through the light-heavyweight's guard. That condition - the light-heavyweight's elusiveness - absolutely had to exist for the small guy to succeed at heavyweight.

Eventually, when a light-heavyweight did succeed at taking the heavyweight championship, it was Mike Spinks who did the job. That happened when he beat Holmes in 1985. Sure, enough, just like Conn explained, Spinks won the fight by being incredible mobile (on his feet), bouncy, and by using excellent head movement to dodge almost all Holmes's shots. Spinks did it, but he was the exception to the rule because of his defensive acumen.

Rossman was essentially a fighter, not a boxer. There was no way Rossman could enter the ring without expecting to get hit. If Mike put on weight to fight a heavyweight, that means he'd be even more likely to get hit. Overall, I simply can't imagine a wide-open target like Rossman having any success by stepping up to fight the big guys who weighed in excess of 210 lbs.

Joe.Kelly wrote: ↑21 Oct 2021, 18:40 Even the aged, tired, over-the-hill Ali of 1978 would have beaten Rossman with ease. The only question is whether Rossman would have lasted the distance.

Rossman was a good fighter, but, arguably he wasn't much more than an advanced club-fighter. He was tough, had decent stand-up boxer-puncher skills, a solid jab, pretty good power, and excellent combination punching ability. That much was true of him as a 175 pounder. But his weaknesses were that he had a shoddy defense, was vulnerable to right leads, his hand speed wasn't the best, and his movement was rather mechanical.

In 1978, young Rossman was really coming into his own after his KO wins over Victor Galindez, Mike Quarry, and Aldo Traversaro. The big hope was that he'd get better, and hopefully hold his own with the monsters of his division, such as Saad Muhammad, Yaqui Lopez, James Scott, Eddie Mustafa Muhammad, Marvin Johnson, and others. Mike's prospects in this division - his natural weight class - were good but "iffy." That doesn't say much for Rossman's chances at heavyweight.

For Rossman, moving up to the heavyweight division would have posed a number of problems. First, Mike was only six feet tall. That means he'd be three inches shorter than Ali. Also, it's questionable - even doubtful - that Rossman could have successfully put on ten or 15 lbs for an Ali match. My guess is that at these higher weights Rossman would lose his speed. He'd probably be sluggish.

I just can't see Rossman coping with Ali's height, reach, mobility, and boxing acumen. I also can't picture Rossman successfully swarming Ali the way Leon Spinks did. Worse yet, I think Ali would successfully use his hand-speed advantage and his fluid body movement to pop-shot Rossman with punches.

So, IMO, a 1978 fight between Rossman and Ali would have been just another TV circus show. A retirement party for the
aging Ali, who would beat the light-heavyweight without any real trouble.

goose 5 wrote: ↑25 Oct 2021, 19:05 Great thread ! Was Doug Jones really only 5'9" as stated ?