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Canelo poised to join Sugar Ray Leonard and Joe Calzaghe on WBC list
Posted: 02 Nov 2021, 12:18
by Enlightened-One
"Canelo poised to join Sugar Ray Leonard and Joe Calzaghe on WBC list"
Canelo Alvarez is just one step away from sealing his place among the super-middleweight greats like Sugar Ray Leonard and Joe Calzaghe.
The Mexican superstar, who reigns supreme as the pound-for-pound number one fighter on the planet, pursued a clash with Caleb Plant to seal his legacy.
Holding three titles at 168 following victories over Callum Smith and Billy Joe Saunders, Canelo wanted the IBF strap possessed by Plant to complete the set.
If triumphant this weekend, Canelo will surely crack the all-time World Boxing Council list released this week.
Leonard remains top, as he has done for more than a generation. British legend Joe Calzaghe is second. Nigel Benn and Markus Beyer feature in the top five, while Andre Ward is the latest entrant to crack the list at number four.
WORLD BOXING COUNCIL TOP 10 @ 168
1. Ray Leonard (US)
2. Joe Calzaghe (GB)
3. Nigel Benn (GB)
4. Andre Ward (US)
5. Markus Beyer (Germany)
6. Carl Froch (GB)
7. Mikkel Kessler (Denmark)
8. Robin Reid (GB)
9. Danny Green (Australia)
10. Eric Lucas (Canada)
Twenty-five world champions have gotten recognized by the WBC, five of whom have regained the title: Thulane Malinga (S. Africa), Markus Beyer two times (Germany), Carl Froch (GB), Anthony Dirrell (US), David Benavidez (US).
Seventy-two super middleweight world championships bouts have gotten sanctioned in WBC history.
Thoughts?
Re: Canelo poised to join Sugar Ray Leonard and Joe Calzaghe on WBC list
Posted: 02 Nov 2021, 12:23
by Ruthless-RKO
How come Calzaghe is so high up?
Re: Canelo poised to join Sugar Ray Leonard and Joe Calzaghe on WBC list
Posted: 02 Nov 2021, 12:34
by Enlightened-One
Danny Green has never won a legitimate world title at 168lbs.
He tasted defeat to Markus Beyer (twice) and Anthony Mundine, with his career-best victory at 168lbs being his interim title-winning effort against Eric Lucas.
Danny Green was beaten in three of his fifteen bouts at 168lbs.
In stark contrast, Roy Jones Jr. successfully competed in six IBF world title bouts at 168lbs, beating world champions such as:
• James Toney
• Vinny Pazienza
• Thulani Malinga
• Eric Lucas
Roy Jones Jr. won all 13 of his bouts at 168lbs.
Eric Lucas was KO'd by Roy Jones Jr, but is rated above him. The Canadian only won four legitimate world title bouts at 168lbs.
Robin Reid only won four of his eight world title fights at 168lbs and was defeated by a man (Thulani Malinga) that was beaten by Roy Jones Jr. four years prior.
Therefore, why has the WBC decided to rate Danny Green, Robin Reid and Eric Lucas above Roy Jones Jr. at 168lbs?
Re: Canelo poised to join Sugar Ray Leonard and Joe Calzaghe on WBC list
Posted: 02 Nov 2021, 12:48
by jamesmcdonnell
More to the point, how is Ray Leonard rated at #1, he had a single fight at a catchweight against Donny Lalonde, to force him to weight drain down from 175. That fight created the belt for the organisation.
Re: Canelo poised to join Sugar Ray Leonard and Joe Calzaghe on WBC list
Posted: 02 Nov 2021, 13:02
by Enlightened-One
jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑02 Nov 2021, 12:48
More to the point, how is Ray Leonard rated at #1, he had a single fight at a catchweight against Donny Lalonde, to force him to weight drain down from 175. That fight created the belt for the organisation.
Sugar Ray Leonard became the inaugural WBC world super-middleweight champion when he defeated their light heavyweight titleholder (Donny Lalonde) in a catchweight bout.
He then performed two successful defences of that title against fellow all-time-greats Thomas Hearns and Roberto Duran.
How many other 168lb-ers can you name that have captured world titles at super-middleweight and light heavyweight at the same time, whilst performing successful title defences against two all-time-greats?
I get your point though, because if you scrutinise Leonard’s record at 168lbs, he almost certainly doesn’t deserve to be regarded as the WBC’s highest ever rated super-middleweight fighter.
To be fair though, he’s the greatest ever fighter to have worn the WBC’s world 168lbs title, even though he didn’t achieve much success at that weight.
Sugar Ray Leonard’s achievements during a 21-month timeframe (from November 1979) were absolutely ridiculous and completely decimates any run of form we’ve witnessed for any other fighter during the last forty years.
Re: Canelo poised to join Sugar Ray Leonard and Joe Calzaghe on WBC list
Posted: 02 Nov 2021, 14:12
by jamesmcdonnell
Enlightened-One wrote: ↑02 Nov 2021, 13:02
jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑02 Nov 2021, 12:48
More to the point, how is Ray Leonard rated at #1, he had a single fight at a catchweight against Donny Lalonde, to force him to weight drain down from 175. That fight created the belt for the organisation.
Sugar Ray Leonard became the inaugural WBC world super-middleweight champion when he defeated their light heavyweight titleholder (Donny Lalonde) in a catchweight bout.
He then performed two successful defences of that title against fellow all-time-greats Thomas Hearns and Roberto Duran.
How many other 168lb-ers can you name that have captured world titles at super-middleweight and light heavyweight at the same time, whilst performing successful title defences against two all-time-greats?
I get your point though, because if you scrutinise Leonard’s record at 168lbs, he almost certainly doesn’t deserve to be regarded as the WBC’s highest ever rated super-middleweight fighter.
To be fair though, he’s the greatest ever fighter to have worn the WBC’s world 168lbs title, even though he didn’t achieve much success at that weight.
Sugar Ray Leonard’s achievements during a 21-month timeframe (from November 1979) were absolutely ridiculous and completely decimates any run of form we’ve witnessed for any other fighter during the last forty years.
I love Leonard, but he is not worthy of such a lofty rating as a 168 lb fighter.
I completely forgot his defences against Duran and Hearns were for the 168 lb belt, because at the time, they didn't seem that meaningful, Duran was clearly never a proper 168 lb fighter, Hearns you could argue was as he had results all the way to 175 and even 190.
Re: Canelo poised to join Sugar Ray Leonard and Joe Calzaghe on WBC list
Posted: 02 Nov 2021, 21:22
by squiggy
But that's a Hearns fight that he probably lost, and a win over a Duran who was about six hundred and fifty-five years old.
I agree with EO that RJJ should be not only on that list, but very near the top of it.
Re: Canelo poised to join Sugar Ray Leonard and Joe Calzaghe on WBC list
Posted: 02 Nov 2021, 22:35
by Lackeos
Completely bizarre seeing Marcus Beyer at #5. Insane how much stock they place in beating Danny Green.
I guess they're only recognizing fighters that carried the WBC title; because there's no Steve Collins, Nigel Benn, Chris Eubank, Lucian Bute, etc. Weird that Alvarez isn't already on the list.
Re: Canelo poised to join Sugar Ray Leonard and Joe Calzaghe on WBC list
Posted: 03 Nov 2021, 02:21
by DrDuke
What a sh!tty list. WBC keeps being itself.
Re: Canelo poised to join Sugar Ray Leonard and Joe Calzaghe on WBC list
Posted: 03 Nov 2021, 04:59
by Enlightened-One
Lackeos wrote: ↑02 Nov 2021, 22:35
Completely bizarre seeing Marcus Beyer at #5. Insane how much stock they place in beating Danny Green.
I guess they're only recognizing fighters that carried the WBC title; because there's no Steve Collins, Nigel Benn, Chris Eubank, Lucian Bute, etc. Weird that Alvarez isn't already on the list.
You could be right, I don't really know, but which legitimate WBC world title did Danny Green win?
As far as I can tell, he didn't win any.
And why have they rated Danny Green above current/former WBC 168lbs champs like Canelo, David Benavidez, Badou Jack, Eric Lucas, Richie Woodhall etc.?
I guess we're both confused.
Re: Canelo poised to join Sugar Ray Leonard and Joe Calzaghe on WBC list
Posted: 03 Nov 2021, 08:56
by p4p1
Enlightened-One wrote: ↑03 Nov 2021, 04:59
Lackeos wrote: ↑02 Nov 2021, 22:35
Completely bizarre seeing Marcus Beyer at #5. Insane how much stock they place in beating Danny Green.
I guess they're only recognizing fighters that carried the WBC title; because there's no Steve Collins, Nigel Benn, Chris Eubank, Lucian Bute, etc. Weird that Alvarez isn't already on the list.
You could be right, I don't really know, but which legitimate WBC world title did Danny Green win?
As far as I can tell, he didn't win any.
And why have they rated Danny Green above current/former WBC 168lbs champs like Canelo, David Benavidez, Badou Jack, Eric Lucas, Richie Woodhall etc.?
I guess we're both confused.
Green beat Lucas pretty convincingly so him being rated above Lucas, I’m ok with. But as you said he never actually won the real title so the rating above the other guys is pretty strange. WBC 168lb champions get pretty thing after the top after #4 or 5. Breyer above Froch is laughable.