BoxRec

Lets be honest, TC, Spence, Charlos, Shakur and Tank are not willing to fight that often and take the risks that Canelo does by fighting champions bigger than him!
Canelo is the face of boxing atm and he's the guy who bring lots of money in boxing. Canelo has one of the best resumes in boxing and he's fighting champions much bigger than him.

I still think Canelo ducked 2015 GGG and he lost the 1st fight with him but if he beats Makabu-Thabiso fight winner and he beats the LHW champions, then imo Canelo would be above FMJ in terms of greatness!

Coming from 154 and move up to 190 lbs is not that easy.

apollo creed wrote: ↑03 Dec 2021, 10:34 I still think Canelo ducked 2015 GGG and he lost the 1st fight with him but if he beats Makabu-Thabiso fight winner and he beats the LHW champions, then imo Canelo would be above FMJ in terms of greatness!

No.

Canelo vacated his wbc mw title to fight Liam Beefy Smith and washed up JCCJr, all to avoid his mandatory challenger in GGG at that time.

Makabu-Thabiaso winner is a top 5 CW champion

Beterbiev, Bivol and Joe Smith Jr are top LHW champions

Imo, Canelo fighting champions from much bigger weight divisions like Makabu/Thabiaso, Beterbiev, Bivol and Joe Smith is more risky and dangerous than when FMJ fought 152 lbs Canelo or 2012 Cotto.

I could see Canelo daring to fight Usyk too at 190-200 lbs weight, of course if Usyk will beat AJ again and then Fury.

He gets hate because of:

Failed ped test

Corrupt cards in his favor against fmj, ggg, lara, cotto, trout

Vacating a belt to drop to 155 punds to avoid ggg for a bit

Well, indeed those things are looking bad on his resume but let's be honest, when Canelo is fighting everybody is watching it.

I've said it that he avoided GGG in 2015-2016
Lost the first fight with G
His fight with Lara was a draw or an L
He fought a washed up Kovalev-who had not enough time to fully prepare
He beat some weak champs at smw
He got caught being on clen

But also is one fighter that he's willing to take risks and fight more often. He fought, Trout, Lara, FMJ, Cotto, GGG, Jacobs. He may fight Makabu/Thabiaso winner, and then the LHW champions.

I mean , it's not Canelo's fault that the top guys at 168(Benavidez, Smith, Plant and BJS) didn't fight each other to get more polished as fighters. Same with Beterbiev and Bivol, even if they have good resumes.

apollo creed wrote: ↑03 Dec 2021, 10:34 Lets be honest, TC, Spence, Charlos, Shakur and Tank are not willing to fight that often and take the risks that Canelo does by fighting champions bigger than him!
Canelo is the face of boxing atm and he's the guy who bring lots of money in boxing. Canelo has one of the best resumes in boxing and he's fighting champions much bigger than him.

I still think Canelo ducked 2015 GGG and he lost the 1st fight with him but if he beats Makabu-Thabiso fight winner and he beats the LHW champions, then imo Canelo would be above FMJ in terms of greatness!

Coming from 154 and move up to 190 lbs is not that easy.

he isnt coming from 154 anyway as he is SMW - 168

plus he hasnt done it yet - even if he beats Makabu the jury will be out at CW unless he beats Breidis / Okloie et al .

Mexican beef flavoured with PED hasnt gone down well with non Mexican fight fans .
as well as dubious scoring in some fights as we all know and anyone who thinks he beat GGG first time around needs to start watching lawn bowling .

A lot of people floating the idea that canelo needs to and will fight a real top cruiser champ.... If he fights the WBC cruiser champ embrace it, even if he isnt the best cruiser thats the handycap, one is a P4P 168 one is a cruiserweight... I see people suggest usyk or breidis.... they just want canelo dead, those boys are 215 and fornicating good, they deal in heavyweight power and arnt phased. briadis and usyk are so big and strong that it wouldent even matter if they could box as well as they can, they could just brawl through and take a few to land one and eventualy beat canelo, add in leaning on him in the clinch canelo would just get murdered.

If you want canelo to face challenges, enjoy this pitstop to cruiser, then get him fighting the best at 175, If he clears 175 then by then there will be a name at 168 or another low hanging cruiser belt (or even better a low hanging heavy belt (almost certainly regular))...

This thread immediately reminded me of an old video:

stevec@france wrote: ↑03 Dec 2021, 13:10

apollo creed wrote: ↑03 Dec 2021, 10:34 Lets be honest, TC, Spence, Charlos, Shakur and Tank are not willing to fight that often and take the risks that Canelo does by fighting champions bigger than him!
Canelo is the face of boxing atm and he's the guy who bring lots of money in boxing. Canelo has one of the best resumes in boxing and he's fighting champions much bigger than him.

I still think Canelo ducked 2015 GGG and he lost the 1st fight with him but if he beats Makabu-Thabiso fight winner and he beats the LHW champions, then imo Canelo would be above FMJ in terms of greatness!

Coming from 154 and move up to 190 lbs is not that easy.

he isnt coming from 154 anyway as he is SMW - 168

plus he hasnt done it yet - even if he beats Makabu the jury will be out at CW unless he beats Breidis / Okloie et al .

Mexican beef flavoured with PED hasnt gone down well with non Mexican fight fans .
as well as dubious scoring in some fights as we all know and anyone who thinks he beat GGG first time around needs to start watching lawn bowling .

He was a top 154 pounder.

Makabu is a top 5 CW champion. He's not a joke or a walk in the park.

gregregegg wrote: ↑03 Dec 2021, 14:07 A lot of people floating the idea that canelo needs to and will fight a real top cruiser champ.... If he fights the WBC cruiser champ embrace it, even if he isnt the best cruiser thats the handycap, one is a P4P 168 one is a cruiserweight... I see people suggest usyk or breidis.... they just want canelo dead, those boys are 215 and fornicating good, they deal in heavyweight power and arnt phased. briadis and usyk are so big and strong that it wouldent even matter if they could box as well as they can, they could just brawl through and take a few to land one and eventualy beat canelo, add in leaning on him in the clinch canelo would just get murdered.

If you want canelo to face challenges, enjoy this pitstop to cruiser, then get him fighting the best at 175, If he clears 175 then by then there will be a name at 168 or another low hanging cruiser belt (or even better a low hanging heavy belt (almost certainly regular))...

Well said. Some people want to see Canelo getting smashed badly. As I said Makabu is a top CW champion and he's not a walk in the park.

As I said, it's not Canelo's fault that the top smw guys like Bena, Callum, Plant and BJS didn't fight each other to get better or that Beterbiev and Bivol are avoiding each other.

Shakur who? The guy who has never participated in any meaningful fights?

Makabu will lose to Canelo because he has 5 million reasons to do so. It's funny, Canelo is gonna pay Makabu 5 million for 12 rounds but if he wanted to he could get 500 rounds from Makabu for the same price. I don't care how carefully these guys are going to choreograph this show.... everyone with half a brain should realize that the this fight is fixed.

There was an article on boxingnews24 about this.

As far as Makabu, fmj claims he's getting handled in his gym by lesser known guys.

His main points were about the use of steroids by Canelo, and guys like Spence, Crawford, Ennis, Tank, and Stevenson not getting high praise since he thinks they are more talented. Ducking G, wins over Khan, JCC jr, old Mosley, old Kovalev, Rocky Fielding, Yildrim, are for the novice fan base.

H8Usernames wrote: ↑03 Dec 2021, 16:21 Shakur who? The guy who has never participated in any meaningful fights?

Makabu will lose to Canelo because he has 5 million reasons to do so. It's funny, Canelo is gonna pay Makabu 5 million for 12 rounds but if he wanted to he could get 500 rounds from Makabu for the same price. I don't care how carefully these guys are going to choreograph this show.... everyone with half a brain should realize that the this fight is fixed.

Shaku is seen as a future p4p fighter.

I think Makabu would try to KTFO Canelo.

Bandog wrote: ↑03 Dec 2021, 19:01 There was an article on boxingnews24 about this.

As far as Makabu, fmj claims he's getting handled in his gym by lesser known guys.

His main points were about the use of steroids by Canelo, and guys like Spence, Crawford, Ennis, Tank, and Stevenson not getting high praise since he thinks they are more talented. Ducking G, wins over Khan, JCC jr, old Mosley, old Kovalev, Rocky Fielding, Yildrim, are for the novice fan base.

I don't know what lesser known guys FMJ is talking about since he didn't came out with no evidence but sparring is just work and even the greatest fighters got handled in sparrings.

Anyway if those lesser known guys from FMJ's gym "handled" Makabu, then why those guys are not CW champions too?

Canelo may be a darling for the boxing industry bc he generates huge money but the guy was and he's willing to fight more often and risky bigger champions. Imo if Canelo beats Makabu/Thabiaso winner, Beterbiev and Bivol then he's a boxing ATG.

As I said before, Canelo fought weak smw champions but also it wasn't Canelo's fault that Callum, Benavidez, Plant and BJS didn't fight each other to get better.

Benavidez vs Zurdo Ramirez winner = a proven future opponent for Canelo
Charlo vs Andrade winner = a proven future opponent for Canelo
Beterbiev vs Joe Smith Jr winner = even a more proven future opponent for Canelo
Bivol vs Zurdo Ramirez = even a more proven future opponent for Canelo

Canelo does overshadow other current fighters and rightfully so. He fights more frequently and against better opponents than everyone else.

Canelo will never overshadow little Floyd who whitewashed him when he was like 36 years old lol. Canelo is closing the gap on Floyd, but their head to head meeting will always be the reason I rate Floyd over Canelo.

apollo creed wrote: ↑04 Dec 2021, 08:46

Bandog wrote: ↑03 Dec 2021, 19:01 There was an article on boxingnews24 about this.

As far as Makabu, fmj claims he's getting handled in his gym by lesser known guys.

His main points were about the use of steroids by Canelo, and guys like Spence, Crawford, Ennis, Tank, and Stevenson not getting high praise since he thinks they are more talented. Ducking G, wins over Khan, JCC jr, old Mosley, old Kovalev, Rocky Fielding, Yildrim, are for the novice fan base.

I don't know what lesser known guys FMJ is talking about since he didn't came out with no evidence but sparring is just work and even the greatest fighters got handled in sparrings.

Anyway if those lesser known guys from FMJ's gym "handled" Makabu, then why those guys are not CW champions too?

Canelo may be a darling for the boxing industry bc he generates huge money but the guy was and he's willing to fight more often and risky bigger champions. Imo if Canelo beats Makabu/Thabiaso winner, Beterbiev and Bivol then he's a boxing ATG.

As I said before, Canelo fought weak smw champions but also it wasn't Canelo's fault that Callum, Benavidez, Plant and BJS didn't fight each other to get better.

Benavidez vs Zurdo Ramirez winner = a proven future opponent for Canelo
Charlo vs Andrade winner = a proven future opponent for Canelo
Beterbiev vs Joe Smith Jr winner = even a more proven future opponent for Canelo
Bivol vs Zurdo Ramirez = even a more proven future opponent for Canelo

You make some great points. Unfortunately we have a handful of these guys not willing to risk a loss and lose out on the Canelo lottery.

NateJR wrote: ↑04 Dec 2021, 08:58 Canelo does overshadow other current fighters and rightfully so. He fights more frequently and against better opponents than everyone else.

Canelo will never overshadow little Floyd who whitewashed him when he was like 36 years old lol. Canelo is closing the gap on Floyd, but their head to head meeting will always be the reason I rate Floyd over Canelo.

Indeed I think Canelo was one of the easiest big fights FMJ fought and I think Floyd was 37 y/o.

Anyway, Canelo is making his own history and I have the feeling if all goes well with his future fights I think Canelo would challenge a HW champion, like RJJr did with John Ruiz. I could see Canelo challenging Usyk at 200 lbs.

apollo creed wrote: ↑03 Dec 2021, 12:18 Canelo vacated his wbc mw title to fight Liam Beefy Smith and washed up JCCJr, all to avoid his mandatory challenger in GGG at that time.

Makabu-Thabiaso winner is a top 5 CW champion

Beterbiev, Bivol and Joe Smith Jr are top LHW champions

Imo, Canelo fighting champions from much bigger weight divisions like Makabu/Thabiaso, Beterbiev, Bivol and Joe Smith is more risky and dangerous than when FMJ fought 152 lbs Canelo or 2012 Cotto.

I could see Canelo daring to fight Usyk too at 190-200 lbs weight, of course if Usyk will beat AJ again and then Fury.

u crazy.

Bandog wrote: ↑04 Dec 2021, 08:59

apollo creed wrote: ↑04 Dec 2021, 08:46

Bandog wrote: ↑03 Dec 2021, 19:01 There was an article on boxingnews24 about this.

As far as Makabu, fmj claims he's getting handled in his gym by lesser known guys.

His main points were about the use of steroids by Canelo, and guys like Spence, Crawford, Ennis, Tank, and Stevenson not getting high praise since he thinks they are more talented. Ducking G, wins over Khan, JCC jr, old Mosley, old Kovalev, Rocky Fielding, Yildrim, are for the novice fan base.

I don't know what lesser known guys FMJ is talking about since he didn't came out with no evidence but sparring is just work and even the greatest fighters got handled in sparrings.

Anyway if those lesser known guys from FMJ's gym "handled" Makabu, then why those guys are not CW champions too?

Canelo may be a darling for the boxing industry bc he generates huge money but the guy was and he's willing to fight more often and risky bigger champions. Imo if Canelo beats Makabu/Thabiaso winner, Beterbiev and Bivol then he's a boxing ATG.

As I said before, Canelo fought weak smw champions but also it wasn't Canelo's fault that Callum, Benavidez, Plant and BJS didn't fight each other to get better.

Benavidez vs Zurdo Ramirez winner = a proven future opponent for Canelo
Charlo vs Andrade winner = a proven future opponent for Canelo
Beterbiev vs Joe Smith Jr winner = even a more proven future opponent for Canelo
Bivol vs Zurdo Ramirez = even a more proven future opponent for Canelo

You make some great points. Unfortunately we have a handful of these guys not willing to risk a loss and lose out on the Canelo lottery.

Yup, they are staying safe for Canelo's payday.

Imo Beterbiev and Bivol should've already fought.

Zurdo Ramirez called out Bivol before and I think they should fight.

Benavidez should stop fighting stiffs at 168 and move up at 175 to challenge the top dogs.

adislav123 wrote: ↑04 Dec 2021, 10:19

apollo creed wrote: ↑03 Dec 2021, 12:18 Canelo vacated his wbc mw title to fight Liam Beefy Smith and washed up JCCJr, all to avoid his mandatory challenger in GGG at that time.

Makabu-Thabiaso winner is a top 5 CW champion

Beterbiev, Bivol and Joe Smith Jr are top LHW champions

Imo, Canelo fighting champions from much bigger weight divisions like Makabu/Thabiaso, Beterbiev, Bivol and Joe Smith is more risky and dangerous than when FMJ fought 152 lbs Canelo or 2012 Cotto.

I could see Canelo daring to fight Usyk too at 190-200 lbs weight, of course if Usyk will beat AJ again and then Fury.

u crazy.

Why not? Canelo has big balls. He'd probably do it at 190-200 with a rehydration clause and also a rematch clause.

apollo creed wrote: ↑03 Dec 2021, 12:18I still think Canelo ducked 2015 GGG.

Canelo vacated his wbc mw title to fight Liam Beefy Smith to avoid his mandatory challenger in GGG at that time.

Nope. Wrong.

he dont really get that much hate , he is king kong and rightly so , so when ur top you are the one to have stuff flung at because everyone wants to see the next best thing, saul is far more watchable then all of the above names there

Canelo will never overshadow Mayweather because Mayweather whupped dat @ss like a rented mule. Don't tell me Canelo was inexperienced. He had been pro for 8 years, a champion, having destroyed numerous former or current world champs. Yet a 36 year old welterweight who started his career at super featherweight made this 23 year phenom look like novice. You can't erase the past!

Fightdoctor wrote: ↑04 Dec 2021, 16:53 Don't tell me Canelo was inexperienced. He had been pro for 8 years

Alvarez was most definitely not in his prime yet. At this point in his career, he had pretty close to 0 uncontroversial wins against divisional top 5 opponents, and I don't think there was a consensus that he was top 10 p4p yet. Also, there is a huge difference between someone turning pro at age 15 and being pro for 8 years vs someone like Lomanchenko turning pro at age 25 and then being pro for 8 years. Saul's first 6 years of being pro were pretty much his amateur career. Just like how Manny Pacquiao turned pro at 15, and somehow, 8 years into his pro career, he still hadn't cracked the top 10 p4p, and was a one-weight, one-belt world champ with only 2 title defenses.

Fightdoctor wrote: ↑04 Dec 2021, 16:53 having destroyed numerous former or current world champs.

And he certainly didn't destroy numerous current world champs. He literally only had 1 official win against a reigning world champ, and it was a decision win that many regarded as an unofficial loss. So that would mean he destroyed 0 current world champs going into the Mayweather fight. By the way, what exactly is the value of beating a former champ without the context of that fighter's current state? David Avanesyan beat former champ Shane Mosley, but would he have been some career-defining scalp for Mayweather? Sadam Ali beat former champ Miguel Cotto, but does that mean anyone who beats Sadam Ali is now a legend that Saul Alvarez could never hope to surpass?

Fightdoctor wrote: ↑04 Dec 2021, 16:53You can't erase the past!

And by that, you mean that fighters like Pacquiao and Hopkins can never do anything to prove that they've improved beyond the early pre-prime losses of their career, no matter who they beat later on? When Hopkins was 23, he lost to debutant Clinton Mitchell, but he can't do anything henceforth to prove that his abilities have grown beyond Clinton Mitchell's? No matter what Pacquiao does, he can never prove that he's grown beyond his pre-prime defeat against Rustico Torrecampo?

saul in his prime would beat mayweather i think if they had rematched 5 years down the line