BoxRec

Personally I believe Floyd will go down as the greatest fighter p4p of all time however, I believe only with time Floyd will truly be appreciated.
Where do you rank Floyd on your all time p4p list.

Quite high. A legit top 10 claim.

He'll be highly rated by historically illiterate fans who are awed by flashy records, belts and undefeated records.

Discerning types with a better grip of the sport will be able to make a more sober assessment of him.

Billy Tully wrote: ↑13 Dec 2021, 09:12 He'll be highly rated by historically illiterate fans who are awed by flashy records, belts and undefeated records.

Discerning types with a better grip of the sport will be able to make a more sober assessment of him.

Dear discerning type of an expert, can you, please, provide a sober and highly profound critical assessment on the subject, while I'm going for my popcorn.

Billy Tully wrote: ↑13 Dec 2021, 09:12 He'll be highly rated by historically illiterate fans who are awed by flashy records, belts and undefeated records.

Discerning types with a better grip of the sport will be able to make a more sober assessment of him.

Totally agree with that. More and more you hear about titles, records, title defenses etc. Things that can be very deceiving.

His apologists always carefully word his "big wins". The bottom line is that he never had a win over a great fighter when that fighter was great.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑13 Dec 2021, 12:17 The bottom line is that he never had a win over a great fighter when that fighter was great.

That's not true.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑13 Dec 2021, 12:17

Billy Tully wrote: ↑13 Dec 2021, 09:12 He'll be highly rated by historically illiterate fans who are awed by flashy records, belts and undefeated records.

Discerning types with a better grip of the sport will be able to make a more sober assessment of him.

Totally agree with that. More and more you hear about titles, records, title defenses etc. Things that can be very deceiving.

His apologists always carefully word his "big wins". The bottom line is that he never had a win over a great fighter when that fighter was great.

Who would you rank above him then

Without question:

Muhammad Ali
Henry Armstrong
Ezzard Charles
Roberto Duran
Harry Greb
Sam Langford
Ray Leonard
Joe Louis
Carlos Monzon
Archie Moore
Willie Pep
Sugar Ray Robinson

Several others who should rate a little ahead of him. Another several who are roughly even.

Good fighter, great skills but his career was a bit too carefully orchestrated to warrant the top spot, probably ranks somewhere at the back end of the top 20.

We'll find out in five years when Elmersalsa is in his top 30.

oogiebe wrote: ↑13 Dec 2021, 18:05 We'll find out in five years when Elmersalsa is in his top 30.

Dude how dare you think that dipshit will be anywhere close to getting his crap list to 30 in 5 years.
The bastard will die of old age before the list hits the top 50

tiny_acres wrote: ↑13 Dec 2021, 19:52

oogiebe wrote: ↑13 Dec 2021, 18:05 We'll find out in five years when Elmersalsa is in his top 30.

Dude how dare you think that dipshit will be anywhere close to getting his crap list to 30 in 5 years.
The bastard will die of old age before the list hits the top 50

You're right...I wasn't thinking...

I personally think he's in the 30-50 range currently. It's always difficult and never accurate to measure all era's. I think he has a case that he's the best of his era, but I prefer Pacquaio's resume and think certain achievements of his have more of a "wow" factor but I consider Mayweather more skilled, but then I consider Jones more talented and better at his peak than either, but below either in a historical sense.

Mayweather was great at getting "names" on his resume but it's not just who you fought, it's more important when you fought them. This is a modern thing where simply getting the name is what counts and to many modernist fans you then incorporate that fighters entire resume sort of how Canelo beating the ghost of Mosley's ghost has worked. De La Hoya used this method too. Pacquaio to a degree started to do this as well. Or his management team. Whatever. Mayweather's biggest names you'll notice somebody else beat them beforehand and beat them better in most cases which is fine, but when one of the arguing points for Mayweather being the best ever is the "0" then you have to look a little closer. Whatever the case; Mosley was just another fighter as was De La Hoya as was Cotto, as was Pacquaio if we are honest, and Canelo certainly wasn't near this roided out force of nature. Marquez was far too small for Mayweather in a fight he didn't even make weight by design too. Excellent names but a couple of those guys were roughly a decade past their best, the others about five years from their's. Then we have to look, is Mosley or De La Hoya likely gonna go down as truly historical fighters? No. Obviously Cotto isn't as well.

So there's the possibility these names will fade away and not be historical, which could actually cause some to underrate Mayweather, but he'll have the "0", but even with the unbeaten record, there are a lot of modern guys retiring with it, so it won't be so unique. Lopez, Calzaghe before him, Ward after him, I'm sure between Fury, Crawford, perhaps another 2-3 current guys, we'll get more and more retiring unbeaten, thus putting the "0" into proper perspective. We are getting guys becoming undisputed more, so the more and more that happens, they start to get compared historically, and then maybe critics will ask why didn't Floyd ever clean out a division? Why did he leave the majority of belts on the table at 130, 135, 140, 154? All things to consider.

I think you'll see some fanatics of his calling him the best ever for the next few years, while his haters will say he was nothing. My guess is that it will sort of level out over time and we'll commonly see him in the 20-40 range.

i dont understand how pac could be ranked over him

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑14 Dec 2021, 12:58 i dont understand how pac could be ranked over him

No way Pac over him.

Top 20 for sure. You could make a case for Top 15. Top 10 is pushing it.

He just doesn't have a Hearns, Duran, Benitez or Hagler type monster he beat. He always waited until the threat was diffused, or they were weight handicapped. Never entered into a 50/50 fight, and he owes the aura of his 0 to a couple of times the judges favoured him. Very talented, but every bit the modern, conniving, legacy-aware boxer backed by subscription channels invested in him and alphabet bodies letting him do whatever he wants.

Arguably no fighter in history has been more privileged than Floyd Mayweather.

Billy Tully wrote: ↑14 Dec 2021, 13:32 He just doesn't have a Hearns, Duran, Benitez or Hagler type monster he beat. He always waited until the threat was diffused, or they were weight handicapped. Never entered into a 50/50 fight, and he owes the aura of his 0 to a couple of times the judges favoured him. Very talented, but every bit the modern, conniving, legacy-aware boxer backed by subscription channels invested in him and alphabet bodies letting him do whatever he wants.

Arguably no fighter in history has been more privileged than Floyd Mayweather.

He literally played the game..

As a defensive technician he's in the top 5 for me. His defence was mind-blowingly good.

As others have said he doesn't have a win vs an ATG killer in their prime. If he'd fought Manny in 2010 that might have been there. Or he might have lost his 0 we'll never know but he'll be judged on it.

TOP 10. Best defensive skills in boxing history IMO.

Better defensively than Pernell Whitaker?

Whitaker surpasses Mayweather not only in terms of defensive skills, but in the overall greatness as well.

DrDuke wrote: ↑15 Dec 2021, 00:34 Whitaker surpasses Mayweather not only in terms of defensive skills, but in the overall greatness as well.

Agreed.

chrisjs1985 wrote: ↑15 Dec 2021, 11:36

DrDuke wrote: ↑15 Dec 2021, 00:34 Whitaker surpasses Mayweather not only in terms of defensive skills, but in the overall greatness as well.

Agreed.

x2. But I'm biased as Sweet Pea is one of my five all time favs.

By the numbers arguably the best ever. His resume after his 30th birthday must be among the best ever also. However, some of his most important bouts were very dull (Pacquaio, De La Hoya) and he had not much of a punch at welterweight which could hurt his legacy as much as his unpopularity for his antics and cherry picking. I rooted against Mayweather in many of his biggest fights but only scored in favor of JL Castillo I against him.