BoxRec

Not talking on "accomplishments", I'm talking pure talent, ability and who you think would actually come out on top in head to heads - where would you rank them purely on a talent scale.

Not counting Lewis and Tyson Fury - we can assume they are comfortably one and two.

I'll keep AJ and Bruno in there as it will be interesting to see how people rank them.

But in reality where do the likes of Joyce, Whyte and Chisora compare to the likes of a prime Mason, Skelton, Hide, Danny Williams. Heavyweight but prime Haye, Joe Bugner (of the 1980s), Horace Notice etc.

Be interesting to you guys compile see a talent wise top 10 of the heavyweights in the UK of the last 40 years and where people see the current crop. Not "unfulfilled potential" (e.g. Danny Williams would be better had he not been fat - but where the best version of Danny Williams we actually saw would rank).

I'm not convinced that talent wise this current crop of "world class" heavyweights who can seemingly command stadium fights and take year long negotiations are any better than an absolute peak Danny Williams etc. I think David Haye mark 2012 massacres the lot of the current crop (well he did one of them).

Is the best Danny Williams say the one who wiped out Kali Meehan in about ten seconds?? I didn't catch much of Williams mid 2000s

I've got a top five

1. Tyson 'Gypsy King' Fury
2. 'Gypsy' John Fury
3. Hughie Fury
4. Nathan Gorman
5. Peter Fury (clearly robbed when he retired after two rounds in his only pro fight)

1. lewis
2. fury
3. joshua
4. haye
5. joyce
6.mason
7. akinwande
8. whyte
9. bruno
10. hide

GreenLightning wrote: ↑18 Jan 2022, 15:34 Is the best Danny Williams say the one who wiped out Kali Meehan in about ten seconds?? I didn't catch much of Williams mid 2000s

Yes, I would say the best Danny Williams was the one between the Francis defeat and the Sam fight - he was never quite the same for me after Sam - although didn't have a bad run post Sam - Tyson (he was robbed vs Sprott - a terrible decision). Definitely post Tyson he was never the same - one decent showing vs Gammar aside.

stujones wrote: ↑18 Jan 2022, 15:41

GreenLightning wrote: ↑18 Jan 2022, 15:34 Is the best Danny Williams say the one who wiped out Kali Meehan in about ten seconds?? I didn't catch much of Williams mid 2000s

Yes, I would say the best Danny Williams was the one between the Francis defeat and the Sam fight - he was never quite the same for me after Sam - although didn't have a bad run post Sam - Tyson (he was robbed vs Sprott - a terrible decision). Definitely post Tyson he was never the same - one decent showing vs Gammar aside.

I think it was more post Klitschko he was never the same. He took a hell of a beating that night. Was an uncomfortable watch.

maverick23 wrote: ↑18 Jan 2022, 15:46

stujones wrote: ↑18 Jan 2022, 15:41

GreenLightning wrote: ↑18 Jan 2022, 15:34 Is the best Danny Williams say the one who wiped out Kali Meehan in about ten seconds?? I didn't catch much of Williams mid 2000s

Yes, I would say the best Danny Williams was the one between the Francis defeat and the Sam fight - he was never quite the same for me after Sam - although didn't have a bad run post Sam - Tyson (he was robbed vs Sprott - a terrible decision). Definitely post Tyson he was never the same - one decent showing vs Gammar aside.

I think it was more post Klitschko he was never the same. He took a hell of a beating that night. Was an uncomfortable watch.

100% agree his corner should have pulled him out all i remember was sterling mcpherson shouting over everybody in the corner

maverick23 wrote: ↑18 Jan 2022, 15:46

stujones wrote: ↑18 Jan 2022, 15:41

GreenLightning wrote: ↑18 Jan 2022, 15:34 Is the best Danny Williams say the one who wiped out Kali Meehan in about ten seconds?? I didn't catch much of Williams mid 2000s

Yes, I would say the best Danny Williams was the one between the Francis defeat and the Sam fight - he was never quite the same for me after Sam - although didn't have a bad run post Sam - Tyson (he was robbed vs Sprott - a terrible decision). Definitely post Tyson he was never the same - one decent showing vs Gammar aside.

I think it was more post Klitschko he was never the same. He took a hell of a beating that night. Was an uncomfortable watch.

Well yes, but he was absolutely awful vs Klitschko also. Wobbling to jabs....balance shot. I reckon those Tyson shots did more damage than we thought

How does Welch stack up? I never saw him fight.

There’s a couple of fights where I don’t think Williams did any proper training at all to prepare for. KitschKO is one of them.

He was a bizarre character at times. Suffered terribly with his nerves and was impossible to motivate if he didn’t want to be motivated.

Gnome wrote: ↑18 Jan 2022, 17:55 How does Welch stack up? I never saw him fight.

Smaller, slower Joe Joyce with less power

Seeing what we now know about AJ pynch resistance and stamina, I struggle to see anyone beating a prime Dsvid Haye. This doesnt include Lewis or Fury

Lewis
Fury
Bruno
Joshua
Haye
Mason
Joyce
Whyte
Chisora
Akinwande

dan28uk wrote: ↑18 Jan 2022, 15:39 1. lewis
2. fury
3. joshua
4. haye
5. joyce
6.mason
7. akinwande
8. whyte
9. bruno
10. hide

This seems reasonable. Maybe peak Akinwande up one place as I think he’d outpoint Mason. Haye is quite hard to place. Joyce may have got to him. Akinwande might have done a Jeremy Williams on him.

Akinwande would be a lot higher up. As would Martin Murray.

i think mason is really over rated, a slow, plodding, caveman slugging 6'0 foot tall poor man's bruno who accomplished little in around 40 fights. record absolutely filled and padded with meaningless fights against weak opposition. he beat a couple recognizable names past their primes, but was mostly a can crusher, let's be honest

why exactly do people rank him so high? i know he was a loveable guy and all that but his career and abilities were not as high as many have them

mickey1975 wrote: ↑18 Jan 2022, 20:33 Akinwande would be a lot higher up. As would Martin Murray.

did you mean michael murray ?

The stand out names...

Joshua, Haye, Joyce, Whyte, Bruno.

If they all fought I'd fancy Joyce to come out on top.

Ezzard wrote: ↑19 Jan 2022, 03:47 The stand out names...

Joshua, Haye, Joyce, Whyte, Bruno.

If they all fought I'd fancy Joyce to come out on top.

I like Joyce a lot. He’s like a fired up Oliver McCall. Trouble for the curry loving Fury I think, who would gas out I suspect. AJ’s chin might well go again. I think he’ll be avoided like the plague by both!

I'd have to have Haye at 1. Most of the other heavies had stamina issues and chins were not great. Joyce doesnt tick those boxes, but I think as time has passed people forget how much he was eating Dubois shots for Breakfast, lunch and dinner.

stujones wrote: ↑19 Jan 2022, 05:11 I'd have to have Haye at 1. Most of the other heavies had stamina issues and chins were not great. Joyce doesnt tick those boxes, but I think as time has passed people forget how much he was eating Dubois shots for Breakfast, lunch and dinner.

but haye had his stamina problems at times

I can imagine Haye winning a tournament but he could also be stopped by AJ and Joyce. I imagine he'd be too cautious against AJ (as he was against Wlad). Joyce has everything to beat Haye. But Haye did crack Chisora's mostly solid chin.

At some level Haye was fully aware of his limitations in size at HW (a good thing). But it may limit his ambitions in the ring with these gents.

John L. Gardner deserves a place in the top 10. The Londoner won British and European titles and was a typically superfit Terry Lawless fighter who lacked a big punch but who pressured opponents - round after round - until his pressure proved too much. Gardner 'broke' the likes of Ossie Ocasio, Paul Sykes, Billy Aird, Neville Meade and Greg Sorrentino and only needed to beat Jimmy Young at Wembley in 1979 to secure a shot at the world heavyweight title, but the fleshy Young, who never got over his defeat to Ken Norton, had enough left to win on points.
Gardner came back to win the European title with a knockout of the perennially fragile Lorenzo Zanon but was later the victim of a suicidal piece of matchmaking by his promoter Mickey Duff, who threw him in with an unbeaten Michael Dokes in the States but only Dokes, "Sailor" Ibar Arrington and Noel Quarless ever beat Gardner in 10 years as a pro. Arrington caught him cold in the first round; Quarless hammered a washed-up Gardner.

polecateddy wrote: ↑19 Jan 2022, 04:48

Ezzard wrote: ↑19 Jan 2022, 03:47 The stand out names...

Joshua, Haye, Joyce, Whyte, Bruno.

If they all fought I'd fancy Joyce to come out on top.

I like Joyce a lot. He’s like a fired up Oliver McCall. Trouble for the curry loving Fury I think, who would gas out I suspect. AJ’s chin might well go again. I think he’ll be avoided like the plague by both!

I hope he can get the fights he deserves. He needs to be more defensive minded in those early rounds. But once he gest going he's a nightmare for anyone.

I've met him a couple of times and he comes across as great guy. I love his interviews. He just grins, totally at sea. Nothing fake about him.

I also think he should have won the gold. And AJ should have lost to the Cuban. Joyce has been very unlucky.

dan28uk wrote: ↑19 Jan 2022, 05:52

stujones wrote: ↑19 Jan 2022, 05:11 I'd have to have Haye at 1. Most of the other heavies had stamina issues and chins were not great. Joyce doesnt tick those boxes, but I think as time has passed people forget how much he was eating Dubois shots for Breakfast, lunch and dinner.

but haye had his stamina problems at times

Not really at Heavyweight - I think Haye's stamina problems were early in his career when he didn't train right - after Thompson he passed after stamina test, crucially carried power late in to fights vs Valuev and Ruiz and past stamina checks vs Fragomeni and Mormeck at cruiseright.