BoxRec

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑07 Mar 2022, 16:47 The bantamweight division almost never has had a lot depth; so it would have been hard to have a really impressive list of challengers for him to have beaten.

Even given that, it was pretty weak.
Think only two of the 9 were ranked (Fererra and Davila). Guess you could make a case for Batista and Hernandez, but there was nothing special about them.
No way that the other 5 title challengers should have been given a title shot.

Too bad that the Zamora fight was not for the title. Still a big win for him.

chrisjs1985 wrote: ↑08 Mar 2022, 14:01

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑07 Mar 2022, 16:47 The bantamweight division almost never has had a lot depth; so it would have been hard to have a really impressive list of challengers for him to have beaten.

Even given that, it was pretty weak.
Think only two of the 9 were ranked (Fererra and Davila). Guess you could make a case for Batista and Hernandez, but there was nothing special about them.
No way that the other 5 title challengers should have been given a title shot.

Too bad that the Zamora fight was not for the title. Still a big win for him.

I think the division had a lot of depth in the 50's and 60's but thinned out a little in the 70's.

Emilio Hernandez was a farcical title defense as was John Kodjo Mensah, who Don Fraser even admitted he lied about his sparring sessions and record to sell him as viable. It wasn't easy getting Zarate top opponents around then as many knew he had weight problems and wanted to wait until he moved up. Albert Davila was advised to do that, but actually wanted a crack at Zarate. Waruinge Nakayama & Juan Francisco Rodriguez were excellent amateurs, but fairly average pros. Batista went unbeaten coming into the Zarate shot but turned out to be a bust. I think Fernando Cabanella was a good title defense, as he was deceptively good, despite his average looking on paper record.

Most impressive thing about Zarate's reign is how spectacular and dominant he was. His biggest fights were his title win against Rodolfo Martinez and against Alfonso Zamora and he shined about as brightly as you could hope in those two. Davila was a fine fighter too and Zarate dismantled him and even Zarate's title "loss", was really a win against an excellent fighter in Pintor. Zarate never really lost at the weight.

dagosd2000 wrote: ↑08 Mar 2022, 14:24

chrisjs1985 wrote: ↑08 Mar 2022, 14:01

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑07 Mar 2022, 16:47 The bantamweight division almost never has had a lot depth; so it would have been hard to have a really impressive list of challengers for him to have beaten.

Even given that, it was pretty weak.
Think only two of the 9 were ranked (Fererra and Davila). Guess you could make a case for Batista and Hernandez, but there was nothing special about them.
No way that the other 5 title challengers should have been given a title shot.

Too bad that the Zamora fight was not for the title. Still a big win for him.

I think the division had a lot of depth in the 50's and 60's but thinned out a little in the 70's.

Emilio Hernandez was a farcical title defense as was John Kodjo Mensah, who Don Fraser even admitted he lied about his sparring sessions and record to sell him as viable. It wasn't easy getting Zarate top opponents around then as many knew he had weight problems and wanted to wait until he moved up. Albert Davila was advised to do that, but actually wanted a crack at Zarate. Waruinge Nakayama & Juan Francisco Rodriguez were excellent amateurs, but fairly average pros. Batista went unbeaten coming into the Zarate shot but turned out to be a bust. I think Fernando Cabanella was a good title defense, as he was deceptively good, despite his average looking on paper record.

Most impressive thing about Zarate's reign is how spectacular and dominant he was. His biggest fights were his title win against Rodolfo Martinez and against Alfonso Zamora and he shined about as brightly as you could hope in those two. Davila was a fine fighter too and Zarate dismantled him and even Zarate's title "loss", was really a win against an excellent fighter in Pintor. Zarate never really lost at the weight.

Chris
Good assessment of those eras and Zarate's opposition and how he dominated them. When he fought Pintor it was his unexpected mediocrity that cost him the decision. Lupe came into that fight with no real rep and everyone thought Zarate would go through him, Maybe struggling with his weight and his catastrophic loss to Gomez had something to do with his tepid effort. Yeah,Carlos should have won but I think his pedestrian performance influenced the judges to sway it in Pintor's favor.


Two great bantanweights-Eder Jofre and Carlos Zarate at Rick Farris' West Coast Boxing Hall Of Fame bash last year.

chrisjs1985 wrote: ↑08 Mar 2022, 15:06

dagosd2000 wrote: ↑08 Mar 2022, 14:24

chrisjs1985 wrote: ↑08 Mar 2022, 14:01
I think the division had a lot of depth in the 50's and 60's but thinned out a little in the 70's.

Emilio Hernandez was a farcical title defense as was John Kodjo Mensah, who Don Fraser even admitted he lied about his sparring sessions and record to sell him as viable. It wasn't easy getting Zarate top opponents around then as many knew he had weight problems and wanted to wait until he moved up. Albert Davila was advised to do that, but actually wanted a crack at Zarate. Waruinge Nakayama & Juan Francisco Rodriguez were excellent amateurs, but fairly average pros. Batista went unbeaten coming into the Zarate shot but turned out to be a bust. I think Fernando Cabanella was a good title defense, as he was deceptively good, despite his average looking on paper record.

Most impressive thing about Zarate's reign is how spectacular and dominant he was. His biggest fights were his title win against Rodolfo Martinez and against Alfonso Zamora and he shined about as brightly as you could hope in those two. Davila was a fine fighter too and Zarate dismantled him and even Zarate's title "loss", was really a win against an excellent fighter in Pintor. Zarate never really lost at the weight.

Chris
Good assessment of those eras and Zarate's opposition and how he dominated them. When he fought Pintor it was his unexpected mediocrity that cost him the decision. Lupe came into that fight with no real rep and everyone thought Zarate would go through him, Maybe struggling with his weight and his catastrophic loss to Gomez had something to do with his tepid effort. Yeah,Carlos should have won but I think his pedestrian performance influenced the judges to sway it in Pintor's favor.


Two great bantanweights-Eder Jofre and Carlos Zarate at Rick Farris' West Coast Boxing Hall Of Fame bash last year.

What a great time! That's Carlos showing Eder a photo of them together in Cancun a couple years earlier I believe. Carlos is gonna be here next week for 10 days and I'll be hosting an event at the same location I had the Saturday meet & greet last time if you are interested in coming? March 26 for that one. I have Zarate, Zamora, Nunn, Little Red, Vasquez all confirmed.

Esquire wrote: ↑22 Mar 2022, 08:17 When I was growing up it seemed the boxing world was overwhelmed by Zarate's "greatness". His eye-popping record and his domination at bantamweight. But looking back now you can see how overrated he actually was. While he beat the men put in front of him he came up short against fellow hall of famers. He'll always be mentioned on any list of all time great bantamweights but I have no doubt that many of those also listed would beat him.

In other words, his legend is far greater than his accomplishments.

bollocks wrote: ↑22 Mar 2022, 20:57 I know Jeff Chandler didn't think too highly of Zarate

chrisjs1985 wrote: ↑23 Mar 2022, 01:16

bollocks wrote: ↑22 Mar 2022, 20:57 I know Jeff Chandler didn't think too highly of Zarate

Really? I’ve only saw Chandler say great things about him.