BoxRec

Made this poll because of a question Mickey posed in the Fury v Whyte thread.

Ali’s noted as having one of the best chins of all time yet was knocked down and badly hurt by Cooper. Fury gets stick for his knockdown vs Cunningham.

Who wins and also is it unfair on Fury?

There’s no doubt who is greater out of Ali and Tyson and their resumes are miles apart.

I can't believe the amount of times the Cooper KD is cited as a means to diminish Ali, always with Cooper's weight referenced. If Foreman, Liston, Frazier, Norton, Lyle and Shavers can hit you in the mush and not stop you, you evidently have a great chin and early career KDs can be ignored. De la Hoya, with his great chin, was also down a couple of times as a young pro.

Fury has proven he can take a shot and get up. Why is the Cunningham KD such a big deal?

People expect perfection from fighters every time, as if they're programmed robots rather than fallible humans.

I was playing devils advocate. Cunningham being a cruiserweight is always used to criticise Fury. Cooper was barely that and never got near a world title.

mickey1975 wrote: ↑24 Mar 2022, 09:33 I was playing devils advocate. Cunningham being a cruiserweight is always used to criticise Fury. Cooper was barely that and never got near a world title.

Who do you pick out the two Mickey?

Just goes to show that anyone can be hurt/dropped if caught right, too much gets made of knockdowns sometimes.

Wee Tommy wrote: ↑24 Mar 2022, 09:35

mickey1975 wrote: ↑24 Mar 2022, 09:33 I was playing devils advocate. Cunningham being a cruiserweight is always used to criticise Fury. Cooper was barely that and never got near a world title.

Who do you pick out the two Mickey?

Who knows? I know Cooper got stopped a lot more times.

Anyone can get caught just right.

Controversial wrote: ↑24 Mar 2022, 09:46 Just goes to show that anyone can be hurt/dropped if caught right, too much gets made of knockdowns sometimes.

Which is my point.

I wonder how near a world title Steve Cunningham would have got in Cooper's day, with no cruiserweight division, one world heavyweight champion, and that either Sonny Liston or prime Muhammad Ali.

Either way, the Cunningham KD only proves that Fury, like the overwhelming majority of heavies, can go down if hit at the right time on the right spot when in the wrong position. We should leave this type of critique to the YouTube commenters.

Henry Cooper in the grand scheme of things was basically just a European level heavyweight. Cunningham may not have been a great cruiserweight champion but at least he was a world champion level fighter. Every time Cooper went up in class he basically lost so if I had to give the edge to anybody it would be Cunningham.

Good grief. Cunningham wins this every day of the week and twice on Sundays. I like Cooper, but assuming that he weighed in at somewhere between 13-3 and 13-8, as he did for most of his fights, and that Cunningham came in between 14-4 and 15-0, Cooper would have very little chance. If Cooper can lose to Amos Johnson and Roger Rischer, he can certainly lose to Cunningham.

We need a John McDermott v Ken Norton poll as well.

Both lost controversial decisions to all time greats.

Cunningham by decision

Are we going old school sawdust, stale sweat and spit training with steak and eggs or “modern training and nutrition”

“modern training and nutrition”

the reason why modern fighters who fight once a year MUST have BETTER FITNESS than men who fought every month BECAUSE MODERN TRAINING AND NUTRITION!!!'

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑24 Mar 2022, 10:01 Henry Cooper in the grand scheme of things was basically just a European level heavyweight. Cunningham may not have been a great cruiserweight champion but at least he was a world champion level fighter. Every time Cooper went up in class he basically lost so if I had to give the edge to anybody it would be Cunningham.

Again, would Cunningham be a world champion in the 60s, with no cruiserweight division, one champion and Sonny Liston or Muhammad Ali holding the title?

There's only one answer to this question, and if you give any other you're a troll or a lunatic.

Very well matched and hard to call. Steve has a height and weight advantage but nothing that Henry hadn't seen before. Cooper the better puncher, Cunningham the more durable. I think Cooper might edge it with his better boxing and power but then again he cut up easely. English judging maybe get Henry the decision,

Billy Tully wrote: ↑24 Mar 2022, 11:50

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑24 Mar 2022, 10:01 Henry Cooper in the grand scheme of things was basically just a European level heavyweight. Cunningham may not have been a great cruiserweight champion but at least he was a world champion level fighter. Every time Cooper went up in class he basically lost so if I had to give the edge to anybody it would be Cunningham.

Again, would Cunningham be a world champion in the 60s, with no cruiserweight division, one champion and Sonny Liston or Muhammad Ali holding the title?

There's only one answer to this question, and if you give any other you're a troll or a lunatic.

Of course he wouldn't be but what the hell does that have to do with him fighting Henry Cooper in a hypothetical match? Lmao, the beloved Englishman I'm sorry to say was just a European level fighter and nothing more than that.

not a bad matchup actually

Cooper would have had a different rank status in each decade.

In the 90s just British level, absolutely nothing more. His best rank was possibly in the 60s. In this era he and as the British heavyweight scene as it is he could be British champion but would find it hard against the big guys these days. Babic would cut him to ribbons

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑24 Mar 2022, 12:42

Billy Tully wrote: ↑24 Mar 2022, 11:50

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑24 Mar 2022, 10:01 Henry Cooper in the grand scheme of things was basically just a European level heavyweight. Cunningham may not have been a great cruiserweight champion but at least he was a world champion level fighter. Every time Cooper went up in class he basically lost so if I had to give the edge to anybody it would be Cunningham.

Again, would Cunningham be a world champion in the 60s, with no cruiserweight division, one champion and Sonny Liston or Muhammad Ali holding the title?

There's only one answer to this question, and if you give any other you're a troll or a lunatic.

Of course he wouldn't be but what the hell does that have to do with him fighting Henry Cooper in a hypothetical match? Lmao, the beloved Englishman I'm sorry to say was just a European level fighter and nothing more than that.

And what is Cunningham with his mixed results versus Euros Wlodarczyk, Huck, Adamek and Glaskov? None of these guys are champions or world level threats without a cruiser division and with Liston or Ali as heavyweight champ.

I'm not a lover of Cooper, I'm a lover of reason.

MasterG wrote: ↑24 Mar 2022, 13:19 Cooper would have had a different rank status in each decade.

In the 90s just British level, absolutely nothing more. His best rank was possibly in the 60s. In this era he and as the British heavyweight scene as it is he could be British champion but would find it hard against the big guys these days. Babic would cut him to ribbons

Yeah it's not like Henry Cooper could have beaten a brain damaged Michael Bentt like the great Herbie Hide did, or have chinned iron man Jeremy Williams, like Henry Akinwande.

Who moved the thread into this backwater of a section?

The post wasn’t just about who wins out the pair but also Tyson Fury’s possibly unfair criticism.