BoxRec

I have always loved comparing great fighters of the past. Here is my list of the greatest fighters
since 1900-
1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Henry Armstrong
4. Sam Langford
5. Harry Greb
6. Benny Leonard
7. Roberto Duran
8. Sugar Ray Leonard
9. Willie Pep
10. Joe Louis
11. Joe Gans
12. Marvin Hagler
13. Eder Jofre
14. Jimmy Wilde
15. Jack Johnson
16. Roy Jones jr
17. Mickey Walker
18. Archie Moore
19. Pernell Whitaker
20. Carlos Monzon

1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Sam Langford
3. Harry Greb
4. Ezzard Charles
5. Henry Armstrong
6. Willie Pep
7. Roberto Duran
8. Muhammad Ali
9. Archie Moore
10. Sugar Ray Leonard
11. Joe Louis
12. Benny Leonard
13. Gene Tunney
14. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
15. Mickey Walker
16. Barney Ross
17. Joe Gans
18. Charley Burley
19. Marvin Hagler
20. Sandy Saddler

The Balletic Bomber wrote: ↑23 Apr 2022, 19:05 I have always loved comparing great fighters of the past. Here is my list of the greatest fighters
since 1900-
1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Henry Armstrong
4. Sam Langford
5. Harry Greb
6. Benny Leonard
7. Roberto Duran
8. Sugar Ray Leonard
9. Willie Pep
10. Joe Louis
11. Joe Gans
12. Marvin Hagler
13. Eder Jofre
14. Jimmy Wilde
15. Jack Johnson
16. Roy Jones jr
17. Mickey Walker
18. Archie Moore
19. Pernell Whitaker
20. Carlos Monzon

Not a bad list at all. A good list

Always fun to do. We won't ever find two people who have it exactly the same. Guess we all tweak it from time to time. Lots of close calls. There are several guys that are right outside of the Top 20 that easily could be in there. .ie. Hard not to put Chavez, Arguello, Tunney and a few others in the top 20.

1. Ray Robinson
2. Sam Langford
3. Harry Greb
4. Ezzard Charles
5. Muhammad Ali
6. Henry Armstrong
7. Ray Leonard
8. Archie Moore
9. Willie Pep
10. Joe Louis
11. Roberto Duran
12. Barney Ross
13. Mickey Walker
14. Benny Leonard
15. Joe Gans
16. Sandy Saddler
17. Roy Jones Jr.
18. Carlos Monzon
19. Marvin Hagler
20. Pernell Whitaker

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑28 Apr 2022, 11:01 Always fun to do. We won't ever find two people who have it exactly the same. Guess we all tweak it from time to time. Lots of close calls. There are several guys that are right outside of the Top 20 that easily could be in there. .ie. Hard not to put Chavez, Arguello, Tunney and a few others in the top 20.

1. Ray Robinson
2. Sam Langford
3. Harry Greb
4. Ezzard Charles
5. Muhammad Ali
6. Henry Armstrong
7. Ray Leonard
8. Archie Moore
9. Willie Pep
10. Joe Louis
11. Roberto Duran
12. Barney Ross
13. Mickey Walker
14. Benny Leonard
15. Joe Gans
16. Sandy Saddler
17. Roy Jones Jr.
18. Carlos Monzon
19. Marvin Hagler
20. Pernell Whitaker

Pretty solid list, Ambling Alp. Like me you rank Hagler in the top twenty. I’ve always been surprised when I see lists without Hagler ranked as highly as he should be. Roy Jones, at his best , probably was as great as any fighter ever.—Mark

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑28 Apr 2022, 11:01 Always fun to do. We won't ever find two people who have it exactly the same. Guess we all tweak it from time to time. Lots of close calls. There are several guys that are right outside of the Top 20 that easily could be in there. .ie. Hard not to put Chavez, Arguello, Tunney and a few others in the top 20.

1. Ray Robinson
2. Sam Langford
3. Harry Greb
4. Ezzard Charles
5. Muhammad Ali
6. Henry Armstrong
7. Ray Leonard
8. Archie Moore
9. Willie Pep
10. Joe Louis
11. Roberto Duran
12. Barney Ross
13. Mickey Walker
14. Benny Leonard
15. Joe Gans
16. Sandy Saddler
17. Roy Jones Jr.
18. Carlos Monzon
19. Marvin Hagler
20. Pernell Whitaker

And I always love to see Sugar Ray Leonard in the top ten!—Mark

1. Ray Leonard
2. Pernell Whitaker
3. Lennox Lewis
4. Carlos Monzon
5. Gene Tunney
6. Ray Robinson
7. Evander Holyfield
8. Henry Armstrong
9. Marvin Hagler
10. Ezzard Charles
11. Roberto Duran
12. Muhammad Ali
13. Thomas Hearns
14. Willie Pep
15. Roy Jones Jr
16. Floyd Mayweather Jr
17. Harry Greb
18. Alexis Arguello
19. Andre Ward
20. Manny Pacquiao

The Balletic Bomber wrote: ↑29 Apr 2022, 12:03

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑28 Apr 2022, 11:01 Always fun to do. We won't ever find two people who have it exactly the same. Guess we all tweak it from time to time. Lots of close calls. There are several guys that are right outside of the Top 20 that easily could be in there. .ie. Hard not to put Chavez, Arguello, Tunney and a few others in the top 20.

1. Ray Robinson
2. Sam Langford
3. Harry Greb
4. Ezzard Charles
5. Muhammad Ali
6. Henry Armstrong
7. Ray Leonard
8. Archie Moore
9. Willie Pep
10. Joe Louis
11. Roberto Duran
12. Barney Ross
13. Mickey Walker
14. Benny Leonard
15. Joe Gans
16. Sandy Saddler
17. Roy Jones Jr.
18. Carlos Monzon
19. Marvin Hagler
20. Pernell Whitaker

Pretty solid list, Ambling Alp. Like me you rank Hagler in the top twenty. I’ve always been surprised when I see lists without Hagler ranked as highly as he should be. Roy Jones, at his best , probably was as great as any fighter ever.—Mark

Your list and gilgamesh had good lists too. If Hagler is not in the top 20, he has to be quite close. Talent wise, Jones was right up there. I just wish he faced better competition at light heavyweight.

The Balletic Bomber wrote: ↑23 Apr 2022, 19:05 I have always loved comparing great fighters of the past. Here is my list of the greatest fighters
since 1900-
1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Henry Armstrong
4. Sam Langford
5. Harry Greb
6. Benny Leonard
7. Roberto Duran
8. Sugar Ray Leonard
9. Willie Pep
10. Joe Louis
11. Joe Gans
12. Marvin Hagler
13. Eder Jofre
14. Jimmy Wilde
15. Jack Johnson
16. Roy Jones jr
17. Mickey Walker
18. Archie Moore
19. Pernell Whitaker
20. Carlos Monzon

How can Moore possibly be above Charles mate?

Wee Tommy wrote: ↑30 Apr 2022, 20:33posted

Wee Tommy wrote: ↑30 Apr 2022, 20:33

The Balletic Bomber wrote: ↑23 Apr 2022, 19:05 I have always loved comparing great fighters of the past. Here is my list of the greatest fighters
since 1900-
1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Henry Armstrong
4. Sam Langford
5. Harry Greb
6. Benny Leonard
7. Roberto Duran
8. Sugar Ray Leonard
9. Willie Pep
10. Joe Louis
11. Joe Gans
12. Marvin Hagler
13. Eder Jofre
14. Jimmy Wilde
15. Jack Johnson
16. Roy Jones jr
17. Mickey Walker
18. Archie Moore
19. Pernell Whitaker
20. Carlos Monzon

How can Moore possibly be above Charles mate?

Wee Tommy, I have for years have ranked Archie Moore as one of the 20 greatest fighters ever. I know that Charles and Moore met 3 times with Charles winning all three. In the past 25 or so years Ezzard Charles has gained considerable recognition as one the very greatest of all time. I have admittedly been reluctant to jump on the Charles bandwagon because I haven’t wanted the lists of other boxing fans to influence mine. I do have Charles in the top 30. Moore’s long title reign and prolific knockout record are the reasons that I rank him so highly. Charles had a magnificent career , a superb light heavyweight and a very good heavyweight champ.
But I am in general slow to alter my rankings. I acknowledge that you are probably right that Charles should be ranked higher than Moore. Although Willie Pep lost 3 of 4 to Sandy Saddler, but Pep is ranked more highly by most for several reasons. On a head-to-head basis regarding the Charles vs Moore, yours is a point well taken!-Mark

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑30 Apr 2022, 19:33

The Balletic Bomber wrote: ↑29 Apr 2022, 12:03

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑28 Apr 2022, 11:01 Always fun to do. We won't ever find two people who have it exactly the same. Guess we all tweak it from time to time. Lots of close calls. There are several guys that are right outside of the Top 20 that easily could be in there. .ie. Hard not to put Chavez, Arguello, Tunney and a few others in the top 20.

1. Ray Robinson
2. Sam Langford
3. Harry Greb
4. Ezzard Charles
5. Muhammad Ali
6. Henry Armstrong
7. Ray Leonard
8. Archie Moore
9. Willie Pep
10. Joe Louis
11. Roberto Duran
12. Barney Ross
13. Mickey Walker
14. Benny Leonard
15. Joe Gans
16. Sandy Saddler
17. Roy Jones Jr.
18. Carlos Monzon
19. Marvin Hagler
20. Pernell Whitaker

Pretty solid list, Ambling Alp. Like me you rank Hagler in the top twenty. I’ve always been surprised when I see lists without Hagler ranked as highly as he should be. Roy Jones, at his best , probably was as great as any fighter ever.—Mark

Your list and gilgamesh had good lists too. If Hagler is not in the top 20, he has to be quite close. Talent wise, Jones was right up there. I just wish he faced better competition at light heavyweight.

Ambling, it was so sad to see Roy Jones, as magnificent as he was, having moved up in weight to win a heavyweight title, coming down in weight and suffering those devastating knockouts. It caused some people to question his previous brilliance and diminish his standing among the all time greats. Roy was such a superior fighter that he dominated everyone, was never really pushed hard in a tough fight. Because few were able to truly test his chin in his prime, we never saw him have to prove his durability.
Those KOs he suffered led people to believe that he never a great chin and wasn’t as great as he seemed. And that’s a shame.-Mark

DrDuke wrote: ↑29 Apr 2022, 12:34 1. Ray Leonard
2. Pernell Whitaker
3. Lennox Lewis
4. Carlos Monzon
5. Gene Tunney
6. Ray Robinson
7. Evander Holyfield
8. Henry Armstrong
9. Marvin Hagler
10. Ezzard Charles
11. Roberto Duran
12. Muhammad Ali
13. Thomas Hearns
14. Willie Pep
15. Roy Jones Jr
16. Floyd Mayweather Jr
17. Harry Greb
18. Alexis Arguello
19. Andre Ward
20. Manny Pacquiao

DrDuke, I love to see Leonard at number 1. But it’s hard to see Robinson down at 6, and even harder to see Ali out of the top ten. But it is good to see you recognize the greatness of Alexis Arguello and Marvin Hagler. After his losses to Aaron Pryor, people seemed to forget what an extraordinary fighter Arguello had been.—Mark

gilgamesh wrote: ↑23 Apr 2022, 19:18 1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Sam Langford
3. Harry Greb
4. Ezzard Charles
5. Henry Armstrong
6. Willie Pep
7. Roberto Duran
8. Muhammad Ali
9. Archie Moore
10. Sugar Ray Leonard
11. Joe Louis
12. Benny Leonard
13. Gene Tunney
14. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
15. Mickey Walker
16. Barney Ross
17. Joe Gans
18. Charley Burley
19. Marvin Hagler
20. Sandy Saddler

Nice list Gilgamesh. Wouldn’t it have been great to see a series of fights amongst the top 3 men on your list?-Mark

The Balletic Bomber wrote: ↑03 May 2022, 23:05 DrDuke, I love to see Leonard at number 1. But it’s hard to see Robinson down at 6, and even harder to see Ali out of the top ten. But it is good to see you recognize the greatness of Alexis Arguello and Marvin Hagler. After his losses to Aaron Pryor, people seemed to forget what an extraordinary fighter Arguello had been.—Mark

Robinson is obviously great, but I've never been sold on people always picking him #1. Leonard's collection of Duran's, Hagler's, Hearn's and Benitez' scalps, all in prime, is the most impressive possesion ever. The first three are inarguable top-20 fighters themselves. Robinson had a lot of big wins, bigger in quantity in comparison to Leonard, but smaller in quality. Only Armstrong can be compared in greatness with the best scalps of Leonard, but he was on a decline when he lost to Robinson.

Ali had the biggest cultural impact on boxing ever, but his legacy in the ring can be questioned because of the arguable performances against Young and especially the third against Norton, which I've always considered as a robbery Imagine, how different the boxing history could have looked like with Kenny's win in that bout, while he deserved that in my opinion.

Hagler had the second best MW reign after Monzon, which contained wins over ATGs and ended with a close loss to Leonard himself, so he undoubtedly should be included there.

Arguello's loss to Pryor is a one of the most excusable ever, so he shouldn't be underestimated because of that. He fought on par with Pryor, who clearly was cheating.

The Balletic Bomber wrote: ↑03 May 2022, 22:21

Wee Tommy wrote: ↑30 Apr 2022, 20:33posted

Wee Tommy wrote: ↑30 Apr 2022, 20:33

The Balletic Bomber wrote: ↑23 Apr 2022, 19:05 I have always loved comparing great fighters of the past. Here is my list of the greatest fighters
since 1900-
1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Henry Armstrong
4. Sam Langford
5. Harry Greb
6. Benny Leonard
7. Roberto Duran
8. Sugar Ray Leonard
9. Willie Pep
10. Joe Louis
11. Joe Gans
12. Marvin Hagler
13. Eder Jofre
14. Jimmy Wilde
15. Jack Johnson
16. Roy Jones jr
17. Mickey Walker
18. Archie Moore
19. Pernell Whitaker
20. Carlos Monzon

How can Moore possibly be above Charles mate?

Wee Tommy, I have for years have ranked Archie Moore as one of the 20 greatest fighters ever. I know that Charles and Moore met 3 times with Charles winning all three. In the past 25 or so years Ezzard Charles has gained considerable recognition as one the very greatest of all time. I have admittedly been reluctant to jump on the Charles bandwagon because I haven’t wanted the lists of other boxing fans to influence mine. I do have Charles in the top 30. Moore’s long title reign and prolific knockout record are the reasons that I rank him so highly. Charles had a magnificent career , a superb light heavyweight and a very good heavyweight champ.
But I am in general slow to alter my rankings. I acknowledge that you are probably right that Charles should be ranked higher than Moore. Although Willie Pep lost 3 of 4 to Sandy Saddler, but Pep is ranked more highly by most for several reasons. On a head-to-head basis regarding the Charles vs Moore, yours is a point well taken!-Mark

Hello Mark. I take your point

I would also argue that Charles had as good or better wins against other great light heavies if the time. He fought everyone despite being avoided by the champions at light heavy. His wins over Walcott and Louis being better than any that the also incredible Moore managed at that weight. Food for thought anyway. All the best.

The Balletic Bomber wrote: ↑03 May 2022, 22:47

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑30 Apr 2022, 19:33

The Balletic Bomber wrote: ↑29 Apr 2022, 12:03

Pretty solid list, Ambling Alp. Like me you rank Hagler in the top twenty. I’ve always been surprised when I see lists without Hagler ranked as highly as he should be. Roy Jones, at his best , probably was as great as any fighter ever.—Mark

Your list and gilgamesh had good lists too. If Hagler is not in the top 20, he has to be quite close. Talent wise, Jones was right up there. I just wish he faced better competition at light heavyweight.

Ambling, it was so sad to see Roy Jones, as magnificent as he was, having moved up in weight to win a heavyweight title, coming down in weight and suffering those devastating knockouts. It caused some people to question his previous brilliance and diminish his standing among the all time greats. Roy was such a superior fighter that he dominated everyone, was never really pushed hard in a tough fight. Because few were able to truly test his chin in his prime, we never saw him have to prove his durability.
Those KOs he suffered led people to believe that he never a great chin and wasn’t as great as he seemed. And that’s a shame.-Mark

I know some people put a lot of stock in the losses that Jones had that you are referring to. I don't. Obviously he was well past it. We have to take into account the state of a fighter's career in regard to losses/bad performances. People that really know the sport and it's history know not to count Joe Louis fights after WWII against him, or Ali's after the 3rd Frazier fight. Or Robinson late in his career etc.

What hurts Jones to most is his lack of quality wins. His competition at light heavyweight was awful. For about 5 years the biggest fight was against DM and it never happened. I think Jones would have won, but thinking and doing is not the same thing. Still think he is top 20, but he could have been even higher.

The Balletic Bomber wrote: ↑03 May 2022, 23:14

gilgamesh wrote: ↑23 Apr 2022, 19:18 1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Sam Langford
3. Harry Greb
4. Ezzard Charles
5. Henry Armstrong
6. Willie Pep
7. Roberto Duran
8. Muhammad Ali
9. Archie Moore
10. Sugar Ray Leonard
11. Joe Louis
12. Benny Leonard
13. Gene Tunney
14. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
15. Mickey Walker
16. Barney Ross
17. Joe Gans
18. Charley Burley
19. Marvin Hagler
20. Sandy Saddler

Nice list Gilgamesh. Wouldn’t it have been great to see a series of fights amongst the top 3 men on your list?-Mark

Yeah it would've. Langford and Greb could've conceivably faced off with Charles too. I suppose Robinson could've as well, but his one foray into the Light Heavyweight division didn't work out so well for him.

My top 5

1. Henry Armstrong
2. Sugar Ray Robinson
3. Sam Langford
4. Roberto Duran
5. Muhammad Ali or Harry Greb. I will lean towards Ali.

elmersalsa wrote: ↑06 May 2022, 07:38 My top 5

1. Henry Armstrong
2. Sugar Ray Robinson
3. Sam Langford
4. Roberto Duran
5. Muhammad Ali or Harry Greb. I will lean towards Ali.

Elmersalsa, what happened to the other fifteen?

The Balletic Bomber wrote: ↑06 May 2022, 07:48

elmersalsa wrote: ↑06 May 2022, 07:38 My top 5

1. Henry Armstrong
2. Sugar Ray Robinson
3. Sam Langford
4. Roberto Duran
5. Muhammad Ali or Harry Greb. I will lean towards Ali.

Elmersalsa, what happened to the other fifteen?

Leonard deviously tricked them all into rematch earlier than they wanted, and there may have been a steak involved

Counter-puncher wrote: ↑06 May 2022, 08:04

The Balletic Bomber wrote: ↑06 May 2022, 07:48

elmersalsa wrote: ↑06 May 2022, 07:38 My top 5

1. Henry Armstrong
2. Sugar Ray Robinson
3. Sam Langford
4. Roberto Duran
5. Muhammad Ali or Harry Greb. I will lean towards Ali.

Elmersalsa, what happened to the other fifteen?

Leonard deviously tricked them all into rematch earlier than they wanted, and there may have been a steak involved

Benny wouldn’t do that.

The Balletic Bomber wrote: ↑06 May 2022, 07:48

elmersalsa wrote: ↑06 May 2022, 07:38 My top 5

1. Henry Armstrong
2. Sugar Ray Robinson
3. Sam Langford
4. Roberto Duran
5. Muhammad Ali or Harry Greb. I will lean towards Ali.

Elmersalsa, what happened to the other fifteen?

Well, let's go at it off top of my head:
1. Henry Armstrong
2. Sugar Ray Robinson
3. Sam Langford
4. Roberto Duran
5. Muhammad Ali
6. Harry Greb
7. Ezzard Charles
8. Floyd Mayweather, Jr.
9. Joe Louis
10. Joe Gans
11. Benny Leonard
12. Willie Pep
13. Archie Moore
14. Tony Canzoneri
15. Jack Johnson
16. Bob Fitzsimmons
17. Carlos Monzon
18. Sugar Ray Leonard
19. Mickey Walker
20. Pernell Whitaker

My Mt Rushmore of Boxing:
Muhammad Ali
Henry Armstrong
Roberto Duran
Sugar Ray Robinson

elmersalsa wrote: ↑08 May 2022, 13:52

The Balletic Bomber wrote: ↑06 May 2022, 07:48

elmersalsa wrote: ↑06 May 2022, 07:38 My top 5

1. Henry Armstrong
2. Sugar Ray Robinson
3. Sam Langford
4. Roberto Duran
5. Muhammad Ali or Harry Greb. I will lean towards Ali.

Elmersalsa, what happened to the other fifteen?

Well, let's go at it off top of my head:
1. Henry Armstrong
2. Sugar Ray Robinson
3. Sam Langford
4. Roberto Duran
5. Muhammad Ali
6. Harry Greb
7. Ezzard Charles
8. Floyd Mayweather, Jr.
9. Joe Louis
10. Joe Gans
11. Benny Leonard
12. Willie Pep
13. Archie Moore
14. Tony Canzoneri
15. Jack Johnson
16. Bob Fitzsimmons
17. Carlos Monzon
18. Sugar Ray Leonard
19. Mickey Walker
20. Pernell Whitaker

My Mt Rushmore of Boxing:
Muhammad Ali
Henry Armstrong
Roberto Duran
Sugar Ray Robinson

At last, my friend, your top 20. Floyd Mayweather over Ray Leonard? Floyd was great no doubt. I think Ray was a bit better. . But your list is good. It’s great that you have Walker and Canzoneri in there. I’m surprised that you don’t have Duran no. 1 given your admiration for his ability. Which is understandable. In his prime he was a powerful puncher and a very good defensive fighter as well. Keep posting!

The Balletic Bomber wrote: ↑09 May 2022, 13:36

elmersalsa wrote: ↑08 May 2022, 13:52

The Balletic Bomber wrote: ↑06 May 2022, 07:48

Elmersalsa, what happened to the other fifteen?

Well, let's go at it off top of my head:
1. Henry Armstrong
2. Sugar Ray Robinson
3. Sam Langford
4. Roberto Duran
5. Muhammad Ali
6. Harry Greb
7. Ezzard Charles
8. Floyd Mayweather, Jr.
9. Joe Louis
10. Joe Gans
11. Benny Leonard
12. Willie Pep
13. Archie Moore
14. Tony Canzoneri
15. Jack Johnson
16. Bob Fitzsimmons
17. Carlos Monzon
18. Sugar Ray Leonard
19. Mickey Walker
20. Pernell Whitaker

My Mt Rushmore of Boxing:
Muhammad Ali
Henry Armstrong
Roberto Duran
Sugar Ray Robinson

At last, my friend, your top 20. Floyd Mayweather over Ray Leonard? Floyd was great no doubt. I think Ray was a bit better. . But your list is good. It’s great that you have Walker and Canzoneri in there. I’m surprised that you don’t have Duran no. 1 given your admiration for his ability. Which is understandable. In his prime he was a powerful puncher and a very good defensive fighter as well. Keep posting!

Floyd Mayweather, Jr beat every significant fighter of his time. The ONLY knock on him is that he should have fought the great Manny Pacquiao way much earlier than 2015.

We can't argue with PERFECTION.