BoxRec

So I'm in the process of an All Time Heavyweight Dream Division that is going to culminate in having dreams matches using CPU vs. CPU sim action with FIGHT NIGHT CHAMPION for PS3 which I will stream and edit the fight highlights dubbing in some of our favorite knockout calls over the years and fight commentary. The game itself is very realistic if the ratings are accurate and the sliders (which i'm working on now) are set up properly to reflect proper punch output.

I"ve done a ton of research and have been a fan of the sport since I first saw Mike Tyson fight in the late 1980 as a little kid. My favorite era is the 60s/70s even though I had to go back and watch these obviously (Born in 1980). Let me know if any of you are interested in giving your opinion on attribute ratings. We are going back 100 years so basically everyone from Jack Dempsey to the present day and in between will be involved. If you aren't confident on an era or boxer it's ok to just leave it blank. Here is the roster and our first attribute is: OVERALL PUNCH STRENGTH. So this is overall how powerful is the average punch from each guy (not just limited to 1 punch KO power) Just rank them in order from #1 being the best to #108 being the softest punching heavyweight (for instance my top 3 were Liston, Shavers and Foreman). Any help is greatly appreciated.

Here is the roster:
BOXERHGT WEIGHT REACH HANDED PRIME ERA
Jack Dempsey6 1 190 77 1920
Gene Tunney6 0 189 76 1925
Jack Sharkey6 0195 76 1925
Max Schmeling6 1 1927 61 935
James Braddock6 3 194 75 1935
Max Baer6 3 210 81 1935
Primo Carnera6 6 264 85 1935
Joe Louis6 2 198 76 1940
Joe Walcott6 0 194 74 1945
Rocky Marciano5 11 184 68 1950
Ezzard Charles6 0 185 73 1950
Henry Cooper6 2 186 75 1960
Floyd Patterson6 0 189 71 1960
Eddie Machen6 0 195 75 1960
Ingemar Johansson6 1 196 72 1960
Sonny Liston6 1 213 84 1960
Cleveland Williams6 2 215 80 1960
Oscar Bonavena5 11 207 73 1965
Karl Mildenberger6 2 208 76 1965
Ernie Terrell6 6 212 82 1965
Muhammad Ali6 3 212 78 1965
George Chuvalo6 0 216 71 1965
Zora Folley6 1 220 77 1965
Jimmy Ellis6 1 189 76 1970
Jerry Quarry6 0 198 72 1970
Leotis Martin6 1 199 76 1970
Boone Kirkman6 1 205 76 1970
Joe Frazier6 0 206 73 1970
Mac Foster6 2 210 79 1970
Chuck Wepner6 5 228 78 1970
Buster Mathis6 3 243 76 1970
Earnie Shavers6 0 206 79 1975
Jimmy Young6 2 213 76 1975
Duane Bobick6 3 215 82 1975
George Foreman6 4 218 79 1975
Ken Norton6 3 220 80 1975
Ron Lyle6 3 220 76 1975
Joe Bugner6 4230821975
Leon Spinks6 1 197 76 1980
Larry Holmes6 3 209 81 1980
Mike Weaver6 1 213 78 1980
Gerrie Coetzee6 4 215 81 1980
Renaldo Snipes6 2 216 78 1980
Michael Dokes6 3 217 78 1980
Trevor Berbick6 2 219 78 1980
Bernardo Mercado6 4 220 1980
Gerry Cooney6 6 225 81 1980
John Tate6 4 232 80 1980
Randall Cobb6 3 234 75 1980
Greg Page6 2 240 81 1980
Michael Spinks6 3 212 76 1985
Mike Tyson5 10 218 71 1985
Pinklon Thomas6 3 218 77 1985
Tony Tucker6 5 221 82 1985
Tim Witherspoon6 4 227 78 1985
Tyrell Biggs6 5 228 80 1985
James Smith6 4 233 82 1985
Tony Tubbs6 3 244 79 1985
Evander Holyfield6 3 205 78 1990
Carl Williams6 4 218 85 1990
Ray Mercer6 1 225 77 1990
Donovan Ruddock6 3 227 82 1990
Tommy Morrison6 2 227 761 990
Frank Bruno6 3 228 82 1990
Buster Douglas6 4 231 83 1990
Bruce Seldon6 3 235 78 1990
Herbie Hide6 2 215 75 1995
Michael Moorer6 22 247 81 995
Michael Bennt6 3 225 79 1995
Oliver McCall6 2 232 82 1995
Henry Akinwande6 7 235 86 1995
Larry Donald6 3 235 81 1995
Andrew Golota6 4 239 79 1995
Riddick Bowe6 5 240 81 1995
Lennox Lewis6 5 241 84 1995
Chris Byrd6 2 208 74 SP (southpaw) 2000
Brian Nielsen6 2 225 78 2000
John Ruiz6 2 225 78 2000
Corrie Sanders6 4 230 77 SP 2000
Lou Savarese6 5 230 80 2000
Shannon Briggs6 4 230 80 2000
Ike Ibeabucchi6 2 235 76 2000
Hasim Rahman6 3 238 82 2000
David Tua5 10 243 70 2000
Ross Purritty6 3 250 80 2000
Michael Grant6 7 252 86 2000
Eddie Chambers6 1 215 75 2005
Calvin Brock6 2 225 77 2005
Lamon Brewster6 2 225 77 2005
Wladimir Klitschko6 6 244 81 2005
Vitali Klitschko6 7 248 79 2005
Tony Thompson6 5 250 82 SP 2005
Nikolay Valuev7 0 310 85 2005
David Haye6 3 211 78 2010
Tomasz Adamek6 2 216 75 2010
Alexander Povetkin6 2 226 75 2010
Ruslan Chagaev6 1 229 74 SP 2010
Chris Arreola6 3 240 76 2010
Luis Ortiz6 4 237 78 2015
Oleksandr Usyk6 3 215 78 SP2020
Deontay Wilder6 7 225 83 2020
Anthony Joshua6 6 237 82 2020
Andy Ruiz6 2 284 74 2020
Tyson Fury6 9 284 85 2020

I dont get it - show us what you have and let us talk.

all i remember was for the 100th anniversary of Boxing some 30 years ago.( 1997 or around there)
Max Baer was voted for first 50 years
and Earnie Shavers was voted for the next 50 years.
but still have 30 more years to vote who it was or going to be
for the 50 years after that

One of the hardest hitting heavyweights must have been Sam McVea, considering he was the only one who was able to stop a prime Joe Grim when Johnson, Fitzsimmons and several other heavy hitters were not able to do the job.

From the list, I have it narrowed down to Tony Tubbs, Chris Byrd and Tyrell Biggs.

Single shot punch i terms of just power?

If I were to rate out of 10. The 10s would be

Foreman
Shavers
Tyson
Wilder

9s

Dempsey
Baer
Louis
Liston
Lewis
Tua
Wlad
Joshua

I probably missed some people off.

Mine would not be that much different:

If I were to rate out of 10. The 10s would be

Foreman
Shavers

9s

Dempsey
Louis
Marciano
Liston
Frazier
Tyson
Lewis
Tua
W. Klitschko
Wilder

how is s John L. Sullivan's punching power considered ( at least his big right)
" Chopped Liver ' ?

It's got to be Shavers.

The guy had devastating one shot power.

Everyone who ever fought him said he was the hardest puncher they ever faced.

When someone like Ali who took heavy punches from the likes of Frazier, Foreman, Lyle & Liston, plus Larry Holmes who also fought Mike Tyson tell you that Shavers was the biggest puncher, there must be something in it.

Shaver's got his power from throwing 100 lb Hay Bails around
back at the farm in Ohio.

the hardest HW Punchers regardless of Boxing skill or if they ever got a shot at title ?

Mike DeJohn
Mel Turnbow (according to George Chuvalo)

Jeff Merritt was a hard puncher.
Roy "Tiger" Williams
Jeff Simms

Caractacus wrote: ↑27 May 2022, 16:25

Long count - dodgy referee gave Shavers a very long could, should have been KO 1 for Sims.

LOL at that count

"It aint Over till its Over" to quote Yogi Berra.
BTW do you think the ref (Jack Sharkey)
gave Archie Moore too much slack in his first fight with Yvonne Durelle.

Big Puncher vrs Big Puncher


The "re-match"

Liston would have to be up there.
Riddick Bowe should probably be considered as well. Funny how we seldom talk about his power.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑29 May 2022, 15:52 Liston would have to be up there.
Riddick Bowe should probably be considered as well. Funny how we seldom talk about his power.

That's true. Bowe's KO ratio is pretty damn high.

To me you actually gotta have Wilder in this conversation. Reason being, is that he's achieved quite a bit, became a noteworthy Heavyweight, and a legit Heavyweight star that people still talk about even on the heels of 2 KO losses.

He had a good run with one of the belts. My feelings on the validity of that reign aside, it's still significant in it's way.

The reason why you gotta consider him in this conversation is because. Of all these guys we've mentioned. Liston, Bowe, Foreman, Tyson.

All of these guys had a wide variety of skills. Could hurt you with either hand. Could get at you any number of ways.

Wilder had a right hand. That's it. A right hand from hell. A right hand that goes off like a bomb if it ever finds it's mark. That one punch got him everything he has.

He has a half decent jab I guess. But almost every damn thing he's got he got off of that right hand. That's unique in Boxing.

Earnie Shavers arguably hit just as hard as Wilder with similar limitations overall skill wise, but it didn't take him as far.

Caractacus wrote: ↑26 May 2022, 16:14 how is s John L. Sullivan's punching power considered ( at least his big right)
" Chopped Liver ' ?

For one thing I don't think John L. was cracking all too hard after 1920 on account of he was busy being dead.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑29 May 2022, 16:11 To me you actually gotta have Wilder in this conversation. Reason being, is that he's achieved quite a bit, became a noteworthy Heavyweight, and a legit Heavyweight star that people still talk about even on the heels of 2 KO losses.

He had a good run with one of the belts. My feelings on the validity of that reign aside, it's still significant in it's way.

The reason why you gotta consider him in this conversation is because. Of all these guys we've mentioned. Liston, Bowe, Foreman, Tyson.

All of these guys had a wide variety of skills. Could hurt you with either hand. Could get at you any number of ways.

Wilder had a right hand. That's it. A right hand from hell. A right hand that goes off like a bomb if it ever finds it's mark. That one punch got him everything he has.

He has a half decent jab I guess. But almost every damn thing he's got he got off of that right hand. That's unique in Boxing.

Earnie Shavers arguably hit just as hard as Wilder with similar limitations overall skill wise, but it didn't take him as far.

Same thing with Ingemar Johansson.

Basically a one-trick pony whom Henry Cooper said was the hardest hitting man he ever fought. The funny thing is Wilder actually can box decently but refuses to do it for whatever reason.

As for Shavers, he simply was in the hardest era of heavyweights possible and had he not been so green and naive he probably could have been the heavyweight champion of the world had Ali not conned him into believing that Ali wasn't hurt. Even if he did win the title he would have lost it pretty quickly in my opinion because Earnie did have conditioning issues and he wasn't really all that skilled.

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑29 May 2022, 19:40

gilgamesh wrote: ↑29 May 2022, 16:11 To me you actually gotta have Wilder in this conversation. Reason being, is that he's achieved quite a bit, became a noteworthy Heavyweight, and a legit Heavyweight star that people still talk about even on the heels of 2 KO losses.

He had a good run with one of the belts. My feelings on the validity of that reign aside, it's still significant in it's way.

The reason why you gotta consider him in this conversation is because. Of all these guys we've mentioned. Liston, Bowe, Foreman, Tyson.

All of these guys had a wide variety of skills. Could hurt you with either hand. Could get at you any number of ways.

Wilder had a right hand. That's it. A right hand from hell. A right hand that goes off like a bomb if it ever finds it's mark. That one punch got him everything he has.

He has a half decent jab I guess. But almost every damn thing he's got he got off of that right hand. That's unique in Boxing.

Earnie Shavers arguably hit just as hard as Wilder with similar limitations overall skill wise, but it didn't take him as far.

Same thing with Ingemar Johansson.

Basically a one-trick pony whom Henry Cooper said was the hardest hitting man he ever fought. The funny thing is Wilder actually can box decently but refuses to do it for whatever reason.

I mean like I said he's got a half decent jab, and because he tends to be very careful up until he throws, he doesn't have bad defense. Because he tends to just kinda stalk, and wait until he can land the bomb, but Wilder is definitely nowhere near the skill level of most Top 10 guys you'll ever see in Boxing. He just has all time great power.

Ingemar was definitely similar to Wilder in the sense that he had similar limitations, I feel like Wilder is superior to Ingo in every which way though as a fighter.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑29 May 2022, 16:11 To me you actually gotta have Wilder in this conversation. Reason being, is that he's achieved quite a bit, became a noteworthy Heavyweight, and a legit Heavyweight star that people still talk about even on the heels of 2 KO losses.

He had a good run with one of the belts. My feelings on the validity of that reign aside, it's still significant in it's way.

The reason why you gotta consider him in this conversation is because. Of all these guys we've mentioned. Liston, Bowe, Foreman, Tyson.

All of these guys had a wide variety of skills. Could hurt you with either hand. Could get at you any number of ways.

Wilder had a right hand. That's it. A right hand from hell. A right hand that goes off like a bomb if it ever finds it's mark. That one punch got him everything he has.

He has a half decent jab I guess. But almost every damn thing he's got he got off of that right hand. That's unique in Boxing.

Earnie Shavers arguably hit just as hard as Wilder with similar limitations overall skill wise, but it didn't take him as far.

Pretty much agree with you except the line about Shavers not going as far. Shavers went as far. He just didn't have a paper title to win. Shavers sheer work rate made him more dangerous than Wilder.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑29 May 2022, 22:23

gilgamesh wrote: ↑29 May 2022, 16:11 To me you actually gotta have Wilder in this conversation. Reason being, is that he's achieved quite a bit, became a noteworthy Heavyweight, and a legit Heavyweight star that people still talk about even on the heels of 2 KO losses.

He had a good run with one of the belts. My feelings on the validity of that reign aside, it's still significant in it's way.

The reason why you gotta consider him in this conversation is because. Of all these guys we've mentioned. Liston, Bowe, Foreman, Tyson.

All of these guys had a wide variety of skills. Could hurt you with either hand. Could get at you any number of ways.

Wilder had a right hand. That's it. A right hand from hell. A right hand that goes off like a bomb if it ever finds it's mark. That one punch got him everything he has.

He has a half decent jab I guess. But almost every damn thing he's got he got off of that right hand. That's unique in Boxing.

Earnie Shavers arguably hit just as hard as Wilder with similar limitations overall skill wise, but it didn't take him as far.

Pretty much agree with you except the line about Shavers not going as far. Shavers went as far. He just didn't have a paper title to win. Shavers sheer work rate made him more dangerous than Wilder.

As far as marquee wins, and resume you're pretty much right. His record is at the very least on par with Wilder's if not superior, but he certainly didn't go as far in terms of money made, and status in the division at the time and all that. Like was Earnie ever considered the 2nd or 3rd best guy in the whole division at any point?

But yeah I see what you're saying.

1. Wilder
2. Joe Louis
3. Shavers
4. Foreman
5. Wladimir Klitschko
6. Tyson
7. Lewis
8. Marciano
9. Jack Johnson
10. Lamon Brewster

Oscar Bonavena and Mac Foster (1960's) were hard punchers.