BoxRec

ireland has a rich boxing history and usually has good fighters about, but looking over their heavy talent now and all time, what's with the massive lack there? even in the ams, where they have guys medalling at big international events, the heavies are usually among the worst on the team

and i dont mean tyson fury "irish", i mean actually brought up and boxing there. otherwise deontay wilder might as well count as a nigerian

even including NI it's the same thing. obviously population size is a factor, but just seems to be disporportionately poor at hw considering the guys they have at other weights

if anyone thinks im ragging on irish fighters, im not. the whole point is that irish talent overall seems pretty solid, so why are the heavies so disappointing by comparison

Cause leprechauns are small basterds.

Ain’t nobody ever heard of a guy called Kevin McBride?

Plenty of Irish Americans and Irish in the UK as well, esp in early era…. John L Sullivan of course.
60s 70s 80s 90s era more sparse but Jerry Quarry is not to be sniffed at. Gerry Cooney was a real talent except in his head…..Tyson Fury is the standout clearly and Hughie often reminds me of Muhammad Ali.

And then there’s Peter McNeeley of course lol

There was a lot of native-born Irish or first generation Irish-American's who were pretty successful heavyweights. Tom Sharkey, Mike McCoole, Peter Maher, Jim Corbett, John Morrisey, John L. Sullivan, etc.

However, it seems as if the Irish only produced good or great heavyweights if they fought elsewhere--- rather than remain in their homeland. Why that is I'm not so sure but I think the "fighting Irish" stereotype is more of an American creation than it is the reality of natural born Irish people.

Most Irish people I know are just hard-working people who seem to be more interested in soccer or rugby than anything else. Boxing is kind of a secondary thing rather than a primary thing over there. At least in my opinion.

After all who knew that handball is considered the national sport of Ireland? Lol

Boxing is much bigger in Ireland than England. With very large participation in certain areas eg Belfast.

Probably just the size / makeup of the population. Apart from fury most good British heavyweights are black. And there’s about 5 black people In Ireland so that’s likely the real reason.

I think it comes down to size. How many 6'5+ people are there in Ireland. You could probably count them on one hand.

because they're not very good

Ireland has a tiny population. less big guys and less need perhaps to become a boxer. big guys can play rugby or just be big.

golden_balls wrote: ↑31 May 2022, 11:11 Ireland has a tiny population. less big guys and less need perhaps to become a boxer. big guys can play rugby or just be big.

Big Joe Joyce’s sons were good amateurs but do bare knuckle

Scandinavian countries also have tiny populations and not many top heavyweights.

Ireland 4.9 million
UK 65 million
Ukraine 45 million
USA 330 million

Ireland is relatively prosperous and has free university. Giants have more choices.

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑31 May 2022, 01:41 if anyone thinks im ragging on irish fighters, im not. the whole point is that irish talent overall seems pretty solid, so why are the heavies so disappointing by comparison

Probably the same reason why you don't have a lot of Mexican Heavyweights. It's just not really the size of most of the people there.

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑31 May 2022, 01:34 ireland has a rich boxing history and usually has good fighters about, but looking over their heavy talent now and all time, what's with the massive lack there? even in the ams, where they have guys medalling at big international events, the heavies are usually among the worst on the team

and i dont mean tyson fury "irish", i mean actually brought up and boxing there. otherwise deontay wilder might as well count as a nigerian

even including NI it's the same thing. obviously population size is a factor, but just seems to be disporportionately poor at hw considering the guys they have at other weights

you know what mags you left out dillian whyte ,and aj has a irish gran da there too,
yea i know what your saying tho my family all well over 6ft loads of other familys i know the same so they have the bigness, i think it comes down to money in the amateurs they get the medals in certain weights and go all in for that ,the last decent amuture one was con sheehan turned pro trained with peter fury then never fought again, i do also think if your big in ireland your family do try to push you in to rugby my dad tryed it with my brothers , but i thinking coaching really in the heavy weight is unique style in the sense it aint boxing fundamentals, the irish love a boxer , iam problay talking rubbish tho wouldnt be the first time

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑31 May 2022, 01:41 if anyone thinks im ragging on irish fighters, im not. the whole point is that irish talent overall seems pretty solid, so why are the heavies so disappointing by comparison

no dont be silly . youre right my older brother is always saying that aswell my dads family are limerick city , yea we have gene tunney who like fury wasnt born in ireland obviously he is irish blood yes but that was like a 100 years ago , i mean tyson fury family are irish aswell all jokes aside both sides but again not born in ireland , my brother thinks the irish born out of ireland have a chip on there shoulder to prove there irish which i agree. also there isnt big competition in ireland meaning your gonna have to go america which is tough your leaving your home and family for really nothing as only a very small portion of fighters make real money

gilgamesh wrote: ↑31 May 2022, 12:08

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑31 May 2022, 01:41 if anyone thinks im ragging on irish fighters, im not. the whole point is that irish talent overall seems pretty solid, so why are the heavies so disappointing by comparison

Probably the same reason why you don't have a lot of Mexican Heavyweights. It's just not really the size of most of the people there.

not true at all irish big people my dads 6ft3 older bro 6 2 other brother 6 6 and i have loads of mates same as me irish london all over 6ft there familys, were not mexicans we have the size that aint the problem irish are homely people there aint enough pro boxing in ireland meaing you have to travel, i had uncles in ireland that came over here to england to play pro football got home sick went home and they had contracts

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑31 May 2022, 08:22 There was a lot of native-born Irish or first generation Irish-American's who were pretty successful heavyweights. Tom Sharkey, Mike McCoole, Peter Maher, Jim Corbett, John Morrisey, John L. Sullivan, etc.

However, it seems as if the Irish only produced good or great heavyweights if they fought elsewhere--- rather than remain in their homeland. Why that is I'm not so sure but I think the "fighting Irish" stereotype is more of an American creation than it is the reality of natural born Irish people.

Most Irish people I know are just hard-working people who seem to be more interested in soccer or rugby than anything else. Boxing is kind of a secondary thing rather than a primary thing over there. At least in my opinion.

After all who knew that handball is considered the national sport of Ireland? Lol

what about gerry cooney he was alright i thought , and the cinderella man james braddock Pride of the Irish

brilo33 wrote: ↑03 Jun 2022, 20:03

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑31 May 2022, 08:22 There was a lot of native-born Irish or first generation Irish-American's who were pretty successful heavyweights. Tom Sharkey, Mike McCoole, Peter Maher, Jim Corbett, John Morrisey, John L. Sullivan, etc.

However, it seems as if the Irish only produced good or great heavyweights if they fought elsewhere--- rather than remain in their homeland. Why that is I'm not so sure but I think the "fighting Irish" stereotype is more of an American creation than it is the reality of natural born Irish people.

Most Irish people I know are just hard-working people who seem to be more interested in soccer or rugby than anything else. Boxing is kind of a secondary thing rather than a primary thing over there. At least in my opinion.

After all who knew that handball is considered the national sport of Ireland? Lol

what about gerry cooney he was alright i thought , and the cinderella man james braddock Pride of the Irish

They weren't Irish born.

They were Americans of Irish descent.

This thread is about why there are no good or great heavyweights produced out of Ireland or living in Ireland. Or at least that's my understanding of the thread.

Danny McAlinden and Gordon Ferris were British heavyweight champions from Ireland. McAlinden destroyed Jack Bodell to lift British and Commonwealth belts and was all set to face Joe Bugner in a triple title bonanza (Bugner held the European title) when he was shockingly knocked out by unknown American Morris Jackson in a warm-up and Joe Frazier came over to fight Bugner instead. McAlinden later lost the belts to Bunny Johnson. He could punch but never had any luck.
Ferris was a game, dedicated fighter who outpointed Liverpool's Billy Aird to win the vacant British title in Birmingham in 1981 but was crushed by Neville Meade in his first defence. Managed by Paddy and Tommy Lynch, Ferris lacked sparkle but did score an emphatic two-round stoppage of Stewart Lithgo in early 1982 (on the Tony Sibson-Dwight Davison card at the NEC). Ferris really destroyed Lithgo.
Jack Doyle was born in Ireland and challenged Jack Petersen for the British heavyweight title in London in 1933 but kept punching low and was slung out in the second round in front of a huge crowd at White City Stadium. Doyle could punch but lacked durability and temperament. He was more interested in drinking than fighting and spent his later years shamelessly busking in London for beer money.
Dublin's Joe Christle beat a young Frank Bruno in the unpaid ranks but proved an ordinary heavyweight when he turned pro, although he did score a win over a rudderless Hughroy Currie. It should be mentioned that Bruno destroyed the Irishman in an amateur rematch. Nice guy is Joe.

While Ireland has a rich history and tradition in amateur boxing, this hasn't translated into the pros.
There has been a relatively low percentage of heavies that have won British/ Commonwealth and Euro titles but that is also the same in the lower weights too.
Also don't forget that many Irish fighters don't want to fight for Brit/ comm titles and winning a euro title is much harder!
And Northern Ireland is a very small country, Scotland is significantly bigger and how many heavy champs have they had?

Big Scott Belshaw sprang to mind. He was never talked up as being great and as soon as he stepped up we seen why. He kind of faded into obscurity.

Rogan was good fun until Fury dismantled him left handed.

1025587 wrote: ↑05 Jun 2022, 12:39 Remember when he beat Skelton, cracking fight that ?

And Fraudley.

look at the back stories of most heavyweight champions. where are they from and what have they escaped?

plenty of big lads in Ireland and Scandinavia (percentage wise), but few of them have to go boxing to earn money/look after their family. Ditto for Germany. I lived in Germany for years and they are huge compared to the UK and US (two other places I've lived).

Difference is they are not desperate enough to resort to be being hit in the head for money. Their government (and economy) looks after them enough (although you can argue that this is not the case as much for the immigrants and children of).

big people are always the minority in any country. we all have lots of average-sized people. what i see is lots of heavyweight champions who are from minority backgrounds in their country, else from countries which are quite poor. or the US (which is just f%&ked re: healthcare and work). The UK is like a mini-me USA.

Dioufy wrote: ↑05 Jun 2022, 12:23 Rogan was good fun until Fury dismantled him left handed.

Fckin hell how did we forget about Rogie. He was pushing 40 when he came onto the scene. Good value fighter , always in a brawl.

golden_balls wrote: ↑31 May 2022, 11:11 Ireland has a tiny population. less big guys and less need perhaps to become a boxer. big guys can play rugby or just be big.

Double the population of NZ and we have two top 30 HW's.
You might have seen our #2 get Tazered in the ring last night?