BoxRec

Is there a more polarised rivalry between two boxing nations?

Pretty sure that the stat is that no Japanese boxers have ever won when boxing over here in the UK and only Wayne McCullogh has won in Japan out of our British and Irish guys.

Not only that but when our guys box for World titles over in Japan they get obliterated.

Are there any other places where home advantage seems pretty much insurmountable?

I'm certainly no expert on this but I do remember McDonnell getting done by Inoue and some years before that Rendall Munroe losing wide to Toshiaki Nishioka in Tokyo.

I was somewhat surprised by the wide nature of Munroe's defeat as he'd previously beaten a good fighter in the eliminator, Victor 'El Vikingo' Terrazas.
I was in Coventry for that fight and thought Rendall would go on to prove a real handful for the Japanese champion by using his fitness to come on strong late on in the bout, as he did against the Mexican. Unfortunately he barely landed a decent punch in the entire fight.

Michael Brodie lost to a Japanese guy yeah? Or was he Korean?

if inoue beats donaire we'll probably get the inoue-butler super fight for all da marbles

Coco wrote: ↑04 Jun 2022, 19:00 Michael Brodie lost to a Japanese guy yeah? Or was he Korean?

In-Jin Chi is Korean

Inoue already spanked McDonnell in a round too. Was a hard watch.

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑04 Jun 2022, 20:01 Inoue already spanked McDonnell in a round too. Was a hard watch.

Yeah, and McDonnell had every advantage except home turf.

McDonnell had previously beat some decent Japanese guy twice before Inoue destroyed him.

tigermoth87 wrote: ↑05 Jun 2022, 03:52 McDonnell had previously beat some decent Japanese guy twice before Inoue destroyed him.

was it that Kameda or something?

Have things changed because I was under the impression Japanese fighters could only fight for WBA and WBC titles?

Foggy wrote: ↑05 Jun 2022, 09:59 Have things changed because I was under the impression Japanese fighters could only fight for WBA and WBC titles?

Within Japan I think.

jameswilson wrote: ↑04 Jun 2022, 18:00 Is there a more polarised rivalry between two boxing nations?

Pretty sure that the stat is that no Japanese boxers have ever won when boxing over here in the UK and only Wayne McCullogh has won in Japan out of our British and Irish guys.

Not only that but when our guys box for World titles over in Japan they get obliterated.

Are there any other places where home advantage seems pretty much insurmountable?

I think the first UK vs Japan world title fight was when world flyweight champion Terry Allen lost his title to Yoshiro Shirai in Honolulu - which would have been like a hometown fight for Shirai - or ten years after Pearl Harbour - maybe not!

British fighters don't have a good record against Japanese fighters, no - not even Ken Buchanan could get the win when he went over to Japan to face Guts Ishimatu (sp? as always! ).

Although he wasn’t fighting a Brit Inoue has a victory on these shores (Scotland)

littlepug wrote: ↑05 Jun 2022, 10:11 Although he wasn’t fighting a Brit Inoue has a victory on these shores (Scotland)

Yeh. When he beat Rodriguez.

Brought a lot fans with him too.

Fray Bentos wrote: ↑05 Jun 2022, 10:05

Foggy wrote: ↑05 Jun 2022, 09:59 Have things changed because I was under the impression Japanese fighters could only fight for WBA and WBC titles?

Within Japan I think.

how come? what's that all about?

Nightmare Roy wrote: ↑05 Jun 2022, 11:32

Fray Bentos wrote: ↑05 Jun 2022, 10:05

Foggy wrote: ↑05 Jun 2022, 09:59 Have things changed because I was under the impression Japanese fighters could only fight for WBA and WBC titles?

Within Japan I think.

how come? what's that all about?

I think the Japanese boxing board banned IBF (and they might have banned WBO title fights for a while or they still do..)title fights on their shores, probably the only national boxing board to have standards - they might have lifted them in the meantime though.

Some of the IBF's first champions were Japanese though, like the fellow who Jeff Fenech beat for their bantamweight title.

NB: It seems when the IBF first came into place, there were IBF title fights held in Japan, Bennie will know the history of it all.

Fray Bentos wrote: ↑05 Jun 2022, 12:26

Nightmare Roy wrote: ↑05 Jun 2022, 11:32

Fray Bentos wrote: ↑05 Jun 2022, 10:05

Within Japan I think.

how come? what's that all about?

I think the Japanese boxing board banned IBF (and they might have banned WBO title fights for a while or they still do..)title fights on their shores, probably the only national boxing board to have standards - they might have lifted them in the meantime though.

Some of the IBF's first champions were Japanese though, like the fellow who Jeff Fenech beat for their bantamweight title.

NB: It seems when the IBF first came into place, there were IBF title fights held in Japan, Bennie will know the history of it all.

The Japanese Boxing Commission for a long time only recognised the WBA and WBC - the early IBF title fights did not take place with the sanction of the JBC (who eventually affiliated to the WBO and IBF only in 2013) but through "IBF Japan". That was a branch of the IBF set up because Nara Ikeda Gym, who had their fighter Satoshi Shingaki waiting to challenge for a world title at junior-fly, got fed up with Katsuo Tokashiki, the WBA champion, entering into a fairly lengthy series of fights with Lupe Madera (see https://boxrec.com/en/proboxer/23466) and not being willing to fight Shingaki. See Jim Brady's "Boxing Confidential" for detail of some of the curious circumstances of the earliest IBF title fights in that region.

On a separate note, I think the first UK show featuring Japanese boxers was in 1967 - https://boxrec.com/en/event/125683, with two British fighters winning.

First things first, AB and Bennie will blow us all out the water on this subject. I wouldn’t have got into the Asian scene or lower weights at all if weren’t for AB. I don’t know how he does it but his knowledge, coverage and eagerness to share is contagious.

I was a massive Inoue fan from the get go, and was telling everyone in the gym and anyone who would listen all about him. No one was having it when I bet on Inoue RND 1-3 against McDonnell and when he exploded onto the world scene I felt vindicated.

AB put a very good case forward about acclimatisation once. He said any time a Japanese fighter spent more than 2 weeks in the new destination he faired much better. There’s something to be said about an archipelago nation and their insular culture here, I’m just not the guy to tell you it.

Wonder how much of an effect it had on Tyson vs Douglas?

Anyway, their NYE and mid-week matinee shows always give me something to look forward to when there’s very little boxing otherwise.

Belter of a thread idea

olij999 wrote: ↑05 Jun 2022, 12:51

Fray Bentos wrote: ↑05 Jun 2022, 12:26

Nightmare Roy wrote: ↑05 Jun 2022, 11:32

how come? what's that all about?

I think the Japanese boxing board banned IBF (and they might have banned WBO title fights for a while or they still do..)title fights on their shores, probably the only national boxing board to have standards - they might have lifted them in the meantime though.

Some of the IBF's first champions were Japanese though, like the fellow who Jeff Fenech beat for their bantamweight title.

NB: It seems when the IBF first came into place, there were IBF title fights held in Japan, Bennie will know the history of it all.

The Japanese Boxing Commission for a long time only recognised the WBA and WBC - the early IBF title fights did not take place with the sanction of the JBC (who eventually affiliated to the WBO and IBF only in 2013) but through "IBF Japan". That was a branch of the IBF set up because Nara Ikeda Gym, who had their fighter Satoshi Shingaki waiting to challenge for a world title at junior-fly, got fed up with Katsuo Tokashiki, the WBA champion, entering into a fairly lengthy series of fights with Lupe Madera (see https://boxrec.com/en/proboxer/23466) and not being willing to fight Shingaki. See Jim Brady's "Boxing Confidential" for detail of some of the curious circumstances of the earliest IBF title fights in that region.

On a separate note, I think the first UK show featuring Japanese boxers was in 1967 - https://boxrec.com/en/event/125683, with two British fighters winning.

Nice one! Cheers!

olij999 wrote: ↑05 Jun 2022, 12:51

Fray Bentos wrote: ↑05 Jun 2022, 12:26

Nightmare Roy wrote: ↑05 Jun 2022, 11:32

how come? what's that all about?

I think the Japanese boxing board banned IBF (and they might have banned WBO title fights for a while or they still do..)title fights on their shores, probably the only national boxing board to have standards - they might have lifted them in the meantime though.

Some of the IBF's first champions were Japanese though, like the fellow who Jeff Fenech beat for their bantamweight title.

NB: It seems when the IBF first came into place, there were IBF title fights held in Japan, Bennie will know the history of it all.

The Japanese Boxing Commission for a long time only recognised the WBA and WBC - the early IBF title fights did not take place with the sanction of the JBC (who eventually affiliated to the WBO and IBF only in 2013) but through "IBF Japan". That was a branch of the IBF set up because Nara Ikeda Gym, who had their fighter Satoshi Shingaki waiting to challenge for a world title at junior-fly, got fed up with Katsuo Tokashiki, the WBA champion, entering into a fairly lengthy series of fights with Lupe Madera (see https://boxrec.com/en/proboxer/23466) and not being willing to fight Shingaki. See Jim Brady's "Boxing Confidential" for detail of some of the curious circumstances of the earliest IBF title fights in that region.

On a separate note, I think the first UK show featuring Japanese boxers was in 1967 - https://boxrec.com/en/event/125683, with two British fighters winning.

Love this forum sometimes

There def is a bit of knowledge lurking about!

I remember the Danish board refusing to continue sanctioning WBO fights, I think one of the Bredhal brothers handed in his belt too

olij999 wrote: ↑05 Jun 2022, 12:51

Fray Bentos wrote: ↑05 Jun 2022, 12:26

Nightmare Roy wrote: ↑05 Jun 2022, 11:32

how come? what's that all about?

I think the Japanese boxing board banned IBF (and they might have banned WBO title fights for a while or they still do..)title fights on their shores, probably the only national boxing board to have standards - they might have lifted them in the meantime though.

Some of the IBF's first champions were Japanese though, like the fellow who Jeff Fenech beat for their bantamweight title.

NB: It seems when the IBF first came into place, there were IBF title fights held in Japan, Bennie will know the history of it all.

The Japanese Boxing Commission for a long time only recognised the WBA and WBC - the early IBF title fights did not take place with the sanction of the JBC (who eventually affiliated to the WBO and IBF only in 2013) but through "IBF Japan". That was a branch of the IBF set up because Nara Ikeda Gym, who had their fighter Satoshi Shingaki waiting to challenge for a world title at junior-fly, got fed up with Katsuo Tokashiki, the WBA champion, entering into a fairly lengthy series of fights with Lupe Madera (see https://boxrec.com/en/proboxer/23466) and not being willing to fight Shingaki. See Jim Brady's "Boxing Confidential" for detail of some of the curious circumstances of the earliest IBF title fights in that region.

On a separate note, I think the first UK show featuring Japanese boxers was in 1967 - https://boxrec.com/en/event/125683, with two British fighters winning.

cheers guys

I think tj doheny beat a jap in Japan to win his world title a few years ago

watsupdoc87 wrote: ↑06 Jun 2022, 22:47 I think tj doheny beat a jap in Japan to win his world title a few years ago

He beat Ryosuke Iwasa in Japan to win the belt, his first defence was a win over Ryohei Takahashi in New York.

olij999 wrote: ↑05 Jun 2022, 12:51

Fray Bentos wrote: ↑05 Jun 2022, 12:26

Nightmare Roy wrote: ↑05 Jun 2022, 11:32

how come? what's that all about?

I think the Japanese boxing board banned IBF (and they might have banned WBO title fights for a while or they still do..)title fights on their shores, probably the only national boxing board to have standards - they might have lifted them in the meantime though.

Some of the IBF's first champions were Japanese though, like the fellow who Jeff Fenech beat for their bantamweight title.

NB: It seems when the IBF first came into place, there were IBF title fights held in Japan, Bennie will know the history of it all.

The Japanese Boxing Commission for a long time only recognised the WBA and WBC - the early IBF title fights did not take place with the sanction of the JBC (who eventually affiliated to the WBO and IBF only in 2013) but through "IBF Japan". That was a branch of the IBF set up because Nara Ikeda Gym, who had their fighter Satoshi Shingaki waiting to challenge for a world title at junior-fly, got fed up with Katsuo Tokashiki, the WBA champion, entering into a fairly lengthy series of fights with Lupe Madera (see https://boxrec.com/en/proboxer/23466) and not being willing to fight Shingaki. See Jim Brady's "Boxing Confidential" for detail of some of the curious circumstances of the earliest IBF title fights in that region.

On a separate note, I think the first UK show featuring Japanese boxers was in 1967 - https://boxrec.com/en/event/125683, with two British fighters winning.

Yes, the Japanese Boxing Commission had no time for the IBF and Japan's Akio Kameda only got his shot at IBF champion Terry Marsh after severing ties with the JBC. Kameda lost to Marsh, of course, in a bitterly disappointing performance and never fought again. He must have known his career was over on his way to London (only occasional shows were ever staged by the IBF in Japan) but spent most of the fight grabbing Marsh. He came over for the payday.
The IBF had few friends in the Orient. When Thai boxing legend Khaosai Galaxy took on Elly Pical in Indonesia in 1987, it was a potential unification showdown because Galaxy held the WBA super-flyweight title and Pical, the IBF super-flyweight title. However, Galaxy had absolutely no interest in the IBF title. He retained his WBA belt stopping Pical late on.
The Koreans initially embraced the IBF but a series of farcical world title fights forced them to turn their back on the organisation. The IBF was ranking fighters who were little more than novices. Korean holders of the IBF title were forced to relinquish.