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Anyone else score Spinks/Holmes II for Spinks?
Posted: 13 Jul 2022, 10:20
by Riddick Bowie
Was rewatching Spinks/Holmes II (technically Spinks/Holmes III) and again I scored it like a bad Vegas judge, having Spinks nick it 8-7. I know this will disgust many Boxreccers, so I was wondering who else has the unfashionable Michael taking it. A few rounds were so close on another day I might have had the other man winning them, but overall the fight is so close I can't agree it that it's a "robbery" or "controversial" whatever the verdict.
My blind drunk Vegas judge card:
First 4 - Holmes
Next 4 - Spinks
9 - Holmes
10 - Spinks
11 - Holmes
12, 13 - Spinks
14 - Holmes big
15 - Spinks
Also, I forgot how prickly and bad tempered Spinks was in the corner. I've never seen someone abuse their corner so much!
Re: Anyone else score Spinks/Holmes II for Spinks?
Posted: 13 Jul 2022, 10:26
by DrDuke
I watched it once long ago, I had Holmes winning. That score wasn't saved, but I remember it being relatively close.
Re: Anyone else score Spinks/Holmes II for Spinks?
Posted: 13 Jul 2022, 19:31
by bwu
Sorry, but I’ve never seen Spinks-Holmes II as anything but an epic robbery. I remember “The Ring” magazine editors saying at the time that not a single reader wrote in support of the verdict.
Slightly off topic, and this pains me to say as a Holmes fan, but I don’t understand the hullabaloo over the first fight. Spinks won that one, almost as handily as Holmes won the second.
Re: Anyone else score Spinks/Holmes II for Spinks?
Posted: 14 Jul 2022, 07:07
by Riddick Bowie
For me a robbery is a fight where one man wins so widely that the decision against him is either corruption or incompetence. Holmes/Spinks II is way too close to qualify as a robbery or a controversial decision.
Re: Anyone else score Spinks/Holmes II for Spinks?
Posted: 14 Jul 2022, 18:38
by bwu
That’s why all of this is ultimately so subjective. I truly believe this was a robbery. I have Spinks winning five rounds at best.
It’s very interesting to see how the Spinks-Holmes fights were perceived now and then. Press accounts at the time were much different. It may be that I’m just stuck in the last century.
Re: Anyone else score Spinks/Holmes II for Spinks?
Posted: 14 Jul 2022, 19:49
by pound per pound
bwu wrote: ↑14 Jul 2022, 18:38
That’s why all of this is ultimately so subjective. I truly believe this was a robbery. I have Spinks winning five rounds at best.
It’s very interesting to see how the Spinks-Holmes fights were perceived now and then. Press accounts at the time were much different. It may be that I’m just stuck in the last century.
10-5 or 9-6 in favor of Homes is a good score. Holmes won it, no doubt,
Re: Anyone else score Spinks/Holmes II for Spinks?
Posted: 15 Jul 2022, 20:57
by goose 5
10-5 Holmes on my card. I had Spinks edging the first bout, 8-7.
Re: Anyone else score Spinks/Holmes II for Spinks?
Posted: 19 Jul 2022, 11:14
by Ambling Alp II
I had Holmes winning the 2nd fight close; Spinks by a bit more in the first one.
I think I agree with Billy Tully that the term "robbery" is used way too often.
When we score a fight, we should note if the round was close enough that someone else reasonably could have called it for the other guy.
If you score the Fight for Fighter A, but then go back and give Fighter B all the close rounds, and still don't have enough rounds for Fighter B to win the fight, then you have a robbery.
Re: Anyone else score Spinks/Holmes II for Spinks?
Posted: 19 Jul 2022, 11:34
by Seamus
I had it for Spinks 144-143.
Re: Anyone else score Spinks/Holmes II for Spinks?
Posted: 19 Jul 2022, 16:49
by chrisjs1985
I had Holmes 9-6, but in fight I, I had Spinks 10-5.
Re: Anyone else score Spinks/Holmes II for Spinks?
Posted: 23 Jul 2022, 19:40
by BroughtonRulesRefuge
- First fight a Spinks masterclass where he carried Rocky's jockstrap with over the top jabs and just a hint of the Jinx that keep poor Lar handcuffed looking shot to shyte.
Second fight Spinks had severe intestinal flu as most of us had then. Today the fight gets postponed, but then he toughed it out where Lar comes out the blocks roaring with Spinks doing a Jimmy Young retreat for the first 5 rounds. Lar still looked kaka, but at least he was swinging this time.
Finally, feet and wind under him Spinks is moving less and countering more to pull it out on my card, but it was close enough for Lar to think he had won. Of course Lar never beat a standing champ having won his title in the Ring such that he would go on to set that Record in Infamy, 0-6, 0 KO record.
Lar somehow managed to top that off with a stupid fight he forced on Butterbean who laughed, mocked, and ultimately dropped poor Lar in his last moment in boxing.
BTW, I hear Bean lost 100+ lb and is making a comeback at his former svelte 330-360 form. Exhibition, yes
Licensed to box, please say NO!!!
Re: Anyone else score Spinks/Holmes II for Spinks?
Posted: 24 Jul 2022, 05:16
by Riddick Bowie
BroughtonRulesRefuge wrote: ↑23 Jul 2022, 19:40
- First fight a Spinks masterclass where he carried Rocky's jockstrap with over the top jabs and just a hint of the Jinx that keep poor Lar handcuffed looking shot to shyte.
Second fight Spinks had severe intestinal flu as most of us had then. Today the fight gets postponed, but then he toughed it out where Lar comes out the blocks roaring with Spinks doing a Jimmy Young retreat for the first 5 rounds. Lar still looked kaka, but at least he was swinging this time.
Finally, feet and wind under him Spinks is moving less and countering more to pull it out on my card, but it was close enough for Lar to think he had won. Of course Lar never beat a standing champ having won his title in the Ring such that he would go on to set that Record in Infamy, 0-6, 0 KO record.
Lar somehow managed to top that off with a stupid fight he forced on Butterbean who laughed, mocked, and ultimately dropped poor Lar in his last moment in boxing.
BTW, I hear Bean lost 100+ lb and is making a comeback at his former svelte 330-360 form. Exhibition, yes
Licensed to box, please say NO!!!
You really show your hand by holding the Brian Nielsen fight against Holmes.
Re: Anyone else score Spinks/Holmes II for Spinks?
Posted: 24 Jul 2022, 07:56
by Fightnight Scores
We covered this bout when we first started doing live scoring streams, where we watch and score bouts from the past using our detailed scoring system.
In the stream we gave Holmes the win by a few rounds. Difficult to see how Spinks won the fight, but as per our average "winning margin %" metric the rounds were close throughout the fight. So maybe not quite a "robbery", but I think the wrong man won.
You folks posting here might be interested in that particular stream detailing how we're scoring the fight as it goes on, comparing and contrasting detailed scorecards.
You can watch it here.
The sound is a bit low, it was only the 2nd stream we did. It's a little better now.
We're gonna be watching and scoring Qawi-Holyfield (
thread) I this afternoon in fact if anyone wants to come along and join in?
cc:
bwu wrote: ↑13 Jul 2022, 19:31
Re: Anyone else score Spinks/Holmes II for Spinks?
Posted: 24 Jul 2022, 08:25
by bwu
I would love to, but I’ll be at a ballgame and birthday party with the family. Thanks for the invite.
Re: Anyone else score Spinks/Holmes II for Spinks?
Posted: 24 Jul 2022, 17:30
by Fightnight Scores
bwu wrote: ↑24 Jul 2022, 08:25
I would love to, but I’ll be at a ballgame and birthday party with the family. Thanks for the invite.
No probs, and that sounds good! We'll be doing more in future, so keep an eye out on the channel!