BoxRec

seeing it regularly with dubstep's loss to joyce, but it's not limited to that fight

getting smashed by punches to the point where you cant take the pain of a busted eye or jaw is really no different from being cracked with a stinging body shot that makes you take a knee and get counted out. yet one gets dressed up with all this 'oh, he was ahead until the injury got him' nonsense and the other doesnt - it's just considered a straight up knockout/stoppage

being concussed could certainly be considered an injury too, but no one says sheeyat like 'ortiz was ahead on the cards against wilder until the injury' . if a guy gets gradually worn down by shots on the chin and then capitulates because he's gotten concussed and dizzy, no one said he lost on the injury

just stawp this 'lost due to the injury' stuff.........save that for when a guy is winning a fight and then slips on wet canvas and cracks his ankle or something

I think there’s different levels to be fair. For example, Dubois and Brook definitely lost from injuries because they couldn’t continue from the pain (no shame in that obviously). But Vitali would have happily continued against Lennox despite his eye, so he has more of a case as being ‘unlucky’ at being stopped.

ya that's true, but it's not the scenario i mean though when discussing this. i was overly broad in the thread title tbf

when a guy is, say, schooling his opponent and then in round 9 gets caught by a single jab that cuts his eye and the fight is stopped to his protests, while he has all his wits and balance about him, that's different. in that case, hell, another doctor might even have given him the fury treatment and let him continue and go on to win.

but when a dude is counted out because his face was smashed in and he doesn't want anymore, that's hardly any different from being counted out on a cracking rib shot that makes one take a knee for 10, or being counted out because you've been ground down and are concussed and dizzy from accumulated shots on the chin

a concussion is an injury too...maybe from now on to be consistent we should just say someone flattened by a shot to the head lost on injury

Rigondeaux and Walters quit against Lomachenko, those are they types of quits that deserve criticism, bailing from a broken bone, especially to the face, eye, jaw etc is more than understandable, although if it's Saunders that's getting slaughtered then I'm all aboard that bandwagon

Yeh I can't remember ever seeing a fighter getting called a quitter for failing to rise from a body shot

ya, and im not criticizing a guy for calling it a day after he's had his face bashed in. i dont think dubs showed himself to have weak heart. i just think it's silly that the 'lost on injury' card gets thrown around in cases like dub-joyce.

guys stopped on a knee from a cracking shot to the ribs, or dudes concussed and worn down by solid shots on the jaw never seem to get the same luxury of merely having lost due to injury

though youre right that at the same time theyre less likely to have quitter label attached. maybe it's part of the same thing - the so called 'injury' is seen as less serious and something a fighter should continue under, while the body shot that is so painful they don't want to continue is seen as a legitimate knockout, hence no quitter label

for me it's simple, both these cases are knockouts, dress them all up or dress none of them up. it's a different story if a guy was pitching a shutout, then slipped on wet canvas and broke his ankle.

handsofstone wrote: ↑14 Aug 2022, 06:03 Yeh I can't remember ever seeing a fighter getting called a quitter for failing to rise from a body shot

DeLaHoya Vs Hopkins

that shot looked like nothing so i can understand why.......but i never have doubted it was legit and that he was in agony

incidentally, oscar boxed well in that fight despite being well above his best weight, i had it even in the 9th i think. much better than he was vs sturm

Wee Tommy wrote: ↑14 Aug 2022, 07:04

handsofstone wrote: ↑14 Aug 2022, 06:03 Yeh I can't remember ever seeing a fighter getting called a quitter for failing to rise from a body shot

DeLaHoya Vs Hopkins

Even seen a few people call that a dive

There's definitely a distinction between injury losses where a boxer appeared well on his way to a win and suffers an unfortunate cut eye or dislocated shoulder and a guy getting beaten and then official reason for the loss might be an injury.

I mean look at Marco Antonia Berrera's team who would storm the ring (ok not an injury loss) and get him disqualified rather than MAB having an official stoppage loss on his record

handsofstone wrote: ↑14 Aug 2022, 07:37

Wee Tommy wrote: ↑14 Aug 2022, 07:04

handsofstone wrote: ↑14 Aug 2022, 06:03 Yeh I can't remember ever seeing a fighter getting called a quitter for failing to rise from a body shot

DeLaHoya Vs Hopkins

Even seen a few people call that a dive

I went over to that fight and whenever we got on the plane home a lad I'd been chatting to all week said, "He took a fackin' dive didn't he?" I hadn't even considered it at the time.

I think regarding Dubs' loss to JJ folks are making the point that the fight was close at the time of the stoppage. No one is saying he'd have won or he was schooling JJ. He clearly lost, but his performance was still good in that fight. Mags going off on a point that was never made. Dubs lost because he got punched in the eye over and over again. Period. Very similar to Klit's performance vs LL. Lost fair and square but still a shame how it ended in such a closely fought match.

handsofstone wrote: ↑14 Aug 2022, 07:37

Wee Tommy wrote: ↑14 Aug 2022, 07:04

handsofstone wrote: ↑14 Aug 2022, 06:03 Yeh I can't remember ever seeing a fighter getting called a quitter for failing to rise from a body shot

DeLaHoya Vs Hopkins

Even seen a few people call that a dive

Tbh I was one of them

Kell Brook winning rounds against GGG before he couldn’t continue anymore due to his orbital bone being broken (caused by GGG’s fists)..

Wee Tommy wrote: ↑14 Aug 2022, 12:03

handsofstone wrote: ↑14 Aug 2022, 07:37

Wee Tommy wrote: ↑14 Aug 2022, 07:04

DeLaHoya Vs Hopkins

Even seen a few people call that a dive

Tbh I was one of them

handsofstone wrote: ↑14 Aug 2022, 12:12

Wee Tommy wrote: ↑14 Aug 2022, 12:03

handsofstone wrote: ↑14 Aug 2022, 07:37

Even seen a few people call that a dive

Tbh I was one of them

I defo felt Oscar’s theatrics on the canvas was suspect.

Wee Tommy wrote: ↑14 Aug 2022, 12:18

handsofstone wrote: ↑14 Aug 2022, 12:12

Wee Tommy wrote: ↑14 Aug 2022, 12:03

Tbh I was one of them

I defo felt Oscar’s theatrics on the canvas was suspect.

Still to this day mate? I thought he got creased, never even suspected a dive until I heard someone on here mention it a few years ago then I learned it was a fairly common view

handsofstone wrote: ↑14 Aug 2022, 12:31

Wee Tommy wrote: ↑14 Aug 2022, 12:18

handsofstone wrote: ↑14 Aug 2022, 12:12

I defo felt Oscar’s theatrics on the canvas was suspect.

Still to this day mate? I thought he got creased, never even suspected a dive until I heard someone on here mention it a few years ago then I learned it was a fairly common view

I just watched the slowmo again it’s not a great punch but he seems to land with the outside of the glove. Not the usual impact creases either. He was down for well over a minute tho.

Julio Diaz beat Jesus Chavez by TKO once because Chavez moving around the ring, blew his knee out and just collapsed to the canvas unable to continue. THAT'S an injury stoppage.

If your eye is beaten to a pulp, and you can't see or can't handle the pain that the punches has caused. That's a TKO.

Wee Tommy wrote: ↑14 Aug 2022, 12:18

handsofstone wrote: ↑14 Aug 2022, 12:12

Wee Tommy wrote: ↑14 Aug 2022, 12:03

Tbh I was one of them

I defo felt Oscar’s theatrics on the canvas was suspect.

I saw it as a quit rather than a dive

Getting knocked out cold is technically an injury loss…. Your brain got injured.

Broken bones and cuts are a bit trickier, there is moreee bad luck involved, but you still got it done. (still a lot of luck in knockouts).

Guys fight through a broken jaw all the time.
Joe Smith Jr famously carried on for 5 or so rounds.
These guys are tough, but you would have to be tough and stupid to risk losing the sight in one eye due to a fractured or broken orbital bone. I give those guys (Brook, DDD) a pass.
Also if your orbital bone is broken, you are guaranteed to have a very swollen eye- something a good ref will stop the fight over anyway.

Coco wrote: ↑14 Aug 2022, 15:55

Wee Tommy wrote: ↑14 Aug 2022, 12:18

handsofstone wrote: ↑14 Aug 2022, 12:12

I defo felt Oscar’s theatrics on the canvas was suspect.

I saw it as a quit rather than a dive

Agreed

it is a point people make oogs, loads of people wont say dubs was knocked out/stopped by joyce...........it's 'well the injury caught up to him'

like greg said, when a guy is winning but utterly flattened, do we say an injury (concussion) caught up to him even though it's true? or if he was winning then got his ribs cacked by a l ovely body shot? oh he was winning until the injury

just seems like a way of downplaying the loss to me. keep in mind that the doctor never stepped in and said the eye was too messed up for dubs to continue