Ukraine advances in the war

[whiskey]

[Seamus]

Like it or not, right now the Iranians have permission to be in Syria, the US troops there are illegally trespassing. Of course if you subscribe to a belief that certain countries are allowed special privileges, then it won't make sense.

[giacomino]

Stalin was infinitely worse than Hitler but the west didn't do anything about him while he was starving his people to death and ordering his purges.

Well to be fair Banjo, the West had fought two world wars and was a bit tired about the whole thing.Also the USSR was an ally in WW2 and the West couldn't have got the job done nearly as quickly if Germany didn't have to fight on two fronts. Besides that, it was near to impossible to get any information out of the USSR at the time. It was also not imaginable that a leader would starve his own population.

In short, you're putting a lot of blame on the West with the benefit of hindsight and ignoring the war weariness that existed at the time.

the bulk of Stalin's purges and the starvation of the Ukraine (the Holodomor) happened before WW2

Doesn’t help that a lot of the US media - particularly The NY Times - pulled a Fox News and mostly sucked up to Stalin and fed the US readers propaganda about what a glorious place USSR was. I’d point the finger about what happened in the 1930S a lot more if it were today’s economy (then there was a horrific world wide depression, where mere survival was at the forefront of many family’s thoughts) and we had the kind of media, social and mass, we have today to show what was going on. Still, much of the west was pretty isolationist after WW I (see Spanish Civil War and some of Hitler’s early moves) so I am not sure the west would have even thought of doing anything even if the mass starvation was known by the general public. The mass purges inside a sovereign country we wouldn’t do anything about today

[Baby Face Finster]

Hey whiskey, I want to apologize for comments wishing you an excruciating death. I vehemently disagree with your take on the current Ukraine invasion but went way overboard on my comments. I simply hate leaders who hurt innocent people. I don't wish you death, as misguided as you are, but do for leaders like Putin, Xi, Kim and MBS.

Again, I am sorry for my comments directed at you.

[TheRiverCityHippy]

They are not evil dictators, is that what you're saying? If so I think your hatred towards the US is clouding your judgement.

I’m saying the US and the west in general couldn’t care less if you are a despotic murdering scumbag just as long as you do what the US says.
As Kissinger put it in the 70’s we don’t care if someone is a bastard just as long as he is our bastard.

And how does that translate into not helping Ukraine?

There wouldn’t be a war in Ukraine if the west didn’t push east like they promised Gorbachev,
Diplomatic cables released by Wikileaks showed US foreign policy analysts were advising government officials a decade ago that if the U.S. kept on the same path there would be a civil war in Ukraine.
If I’m not mistaken those cables predated the US instigated Maidan coup as well so they either took no notice or plain didn’t care.
Seymour Hersh in his article about the Nord-stream pipeline said the attack on the pipelines was planned before Russia invaded Ukraine,
I have nothing but sympathy for the people of Ukraine who are being used as proxy forces, pawns in the great game between powers.

[conan_the_cribber]

I’m saying the US and the west in general couldn’t care less if you are a despotic murdering scumbag just as long as you do what the US says.
As Kissinger put it in the 70’s we don’t care if someone is a bastard just as long as he is our bastard.

And how does that translate into not helping Ukraine?

There wouldn’t be a war in Ukraine if the west didn’t push east like they promised Gorbachev,
Diplomatic cables released by Wikileaks showed US foreign policy analysts were advising government officials a decade ago that if the U.S. kept on the same path there would be a civil war in Ukraine.
If I’m not mistaken those cables predated the US instigated Maidan coup as well so they either took no notice or plain didn’t care.
Seymour Hersh in his article about the Nord-stream pipeline said the attack on the pipelines was planned before Russia invaded Ukraine,
I have nothing but sympathy for the people of Ukraine who are being used as proxy forces, pawns in the great game between powers.

That's just humbug. Again just spouting Putin's nonsense.

Every nation should have the sovereign right to decide who they want to ally with. All of these nations lived under the threat of the Warsaw Pact. None of them wanted to stay in it when they saw the prosperity and freedoms of the West. That is the why they wish to align themselves with the West.

Every Russian leader knows that their territory was not under threat. No-one in the West was pushing for an invasion of Russia. The only thing Russian leadership is worried about is accountability. Accountability via free and fair elections. Accountability via a free press. Accountability through independent courts. Accountability through an independent and corruption free executive. These are the side-effects of dealing with the West. These are the requirements to join the EU. These things are what happened in the former Warsaw Pact countries. They wanted them. They had communism, now they wanted something else.

And Ukraine had every right to want that as well. Russia had no right to invade. The only reason they did was to stop the spread of accountability to Russia, and of course, to get control of the newly discovered Crimean gas fields thereby protecting their oil kleptocracy.

[whiskey]

Hey whiskey, I want to apologize for comments wishing you an excruciating death. I vehemently disagree with your take on the current Ukraine invasion but went way overboard on my comments. I simply hate leaders who hurt innocent people. I don't wish you death, as misguided as you are, but do for leaders like Putin, Xi, Kim and MBS.

Again, I am sorry for my comments directed at you.

It’s all good Baby. No harm done.

[Ambling Alp II]

What is funny is how Republicans (including Desantis recently) are suddenly worried about the cost of the war. for decades, we have been wasting too much $ on the military. Now we are doing something useful with a fraction of the military budget, and they are suddenly worried.

[Coco]

I thought it was in poor taste England beating them today, they should have taken heed of the Eurovision Song Contest.

[Baby Face Finster]

And in good ole Putin's Russia this is what they are up to these days.......FREEEDOOOOOM!!!:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65102392

Any place that jails children for drawing pictures must be really good.

[Seamus]

Maybe BRICS will end the War in Ukraine later this year, with a peace treaty considered favorable to Russia by the West, but including massive rebuilding aid for Ukraine. Right wing FOX and left wing CNN both featured video editorials this week about the possible demise of the dollar, and if the US gets into serious financhial trouble, aid to Ukraine becomes an issue.

[conan_the_cribber]

Maybe BRICS will end the War in Ukraine later this year, with a peace treaty considered favorable to Russia by the West, but including massive rebuilding aid for Ukraine. Right wing FOX and left wing CNN both featured video editorials this week about the possible demise of the dollar, and if the US gets into serious financhial trouble, aid to Ukraine becomes an issue.

The BRICS won't give one cent for the rebuilding. What you been smoking Seamus?

[Coco]

Maybe BRICS will end the War in Ukraine later this year, with a peace treaty considered favorable to Russia by the West, but including massive rebuilding aid for Ukraine. Right wing FOX and left wing CNN both featured video editorials this week about the possible demise of the dollar, and if the US gets into serious financhial trouble, aid to Ukraine becomes an issue.

The BRICS won't give one cent for the rebuilding. What you been smoking Seamus?

They will if the contracts are awarded to their companies.

The fight for the rebuilding contracts will be more vicious than the war itself!

The reality is those giving arms are doing it to receive contracts.

[The Asleep Lamps]

Very interesting thread. I think we should vote over whether we want to continue funding the war. And maybe we will. Personally I think we should worry about our own shit. Maybe build security fences around the schools... There's homeless camps just a couple miles from me. Funny they weren't there when Trump was President.

[ironbeard]

Very interesting thread. I think we should vote over whether we want to continue funding the war. And maybe we will. Personally I think we should worry about our own shit. Maybe build security fences around the schools... There's homeless camps just a couple miles from me. Funny they weren't there when Trump was President.

Putin and his thugs are currently desensitizing their captive audience to the idea of nuclear war. He has moved nukes into Belarus, and he has stated flatly that Putinland will have subs with Poseidon torpedoes capable of creating nuclear tsunamis in every ocean by the end of the year.

Are you suggesting that he is not blatantly and directly threatening your “own ?”

Anyone who still suggests that the little twat’s goals are limited to Ukraine, and/or cowers behind false equivalencies is a Putin operative (knowingly or not), an idiot, or someone who prefers autocracy/dictatorship over constitutionally guaranteed democratic republics.

I am the definition of an old man, but I will do everything in my power to fight for Ukraine, and for our way of life, not because it is perfect but because it is better for my children and grandchildren. And yes, I dream of getting that arrogant little twat in a room alone before I die.

[conan_the_cribber]

Very interesting thread. I think we should vote over whether we want to continue funding the war. And maybe we will. Personally I think we should worry about our own shit. Maybe build security fences around the schools... There's homeless camps just a couple miles from me. Funny they weren't there when Trump was President.

It is entirely legitimate to question how much is the Ukraine war worth to the US. IMO, All Western nations, in particular the European ones, should be stepping up their support. At the moment as far direct aid as % of GDP goes, the US is one of biggest supporters, with only the countries with borders to Russia (Poland, Estonian etc) giving more.

However, what is not legitimate is somehow to claim indirectly that the Trump presidency was more prosperous than now and that the Biden presidency has lead to homelessness. Practically every economic indicator is betterunder Biden. Perhaps it is true what you say, that a new homeless camp has popped up recently. But to tie that to what is currently happening economically in the US is just pretty silly.

And it appears, you will get your vote in 2024. The war will likely still be going and some R candidates are coming out against it. Personally, I think it's worth the investments so far.

[Seamus]

I think the question to really ask is "Would you risk your life for this man ?"

[conan_the_cribber]

I think the question to really ask is "Would you risk your life for this man ?"

I think there are far greater principles at stake. None of which you seem to particularly care about.

[The Gratest]

My God, would you just look at those Ukrainian Neo Nazis strutting around in their black leather!

[conan_the_cribber]

My God, would you just look at those Ukrainian Neo Nazis strutting around in their black leather!

lol.

[Baby Face Finster]

My God, would you just look at those Ukrainian Neo Nazis strutting around in their black leather!

Why do you guys engage with that fucking fascist?

He is a waste of time and energy!

[The Gratest]

My God, would you just look at those Ukrainian Neo Nazis strutting around in their black leather!

Why do you guys engage with that fucking fascist?

He is a waste of time and energy!

I dunno, I think it's his vast collection of videos of men dancing in leathers and high heels. It puts Jimmy Jacobs historical boxing film collection to shame.

[ironbeard]

Seamless values his leather.

[conan_the_cribber]

A massive snowfall, biggest in the last ten years impedes Ukrainian's Spring offensive. Reports indicate that they have something like 60-80k troops ready to go, however as always with the Ukrainians, exact details are hard to find, very good at keeping their military intelligence secret.

Proof of that came with Bahkmut tunnel story. For months they've been holding onto this town on the front despite waves and waves of Russian assaults (Ukrainian Ministry of Defence claims 30k dead Russians in this battle alone). People have been wondering how they've been holding on so long with the roads leading into Bahkmut often under shelling. Well it appears the Ukrainians built and have been operating a tunnel into Bahkmut for months, using to supply them with arms and food. And despite this being so elementary to their defence and probably tonnes of locals and forces knowing this, the Russians never got wind of it. It kind of shows how disciplined the Ukrainians are and how the remaining local population supports them.

[Counter-puncher]

The Ukrainian media management-along with an obvious willingness on the part of western media to portray only the positives for them- is the best I’ve seen in a conflict, by far.