BoxRec

Should these fighters be in? Give me your opinion...

1. Santos Laciar
2. Betulio Gonzalez
3. Ceferino Garcia
4. Bennie Briscoe
5. Rodrigo Valdes
6. Antonio Esparragoza
7. Jiro Watanabe
8. Vonda Ward
9. Wilfredo Vazquez
10. Jose Luis Ramirez
11. Ernesto Marcel
12. Jose Legra
13. Rocky Lockridge
14. Marvin Johnson
15. Paulie Ayala
16. Tom Johnson
17. Laura Serrano
18. Carlos De Leon
19. Samuel Serrano
20. Sergio Martinez
21. Bruno Arcari
22. Alfredo Escalera
23. Kid Azteca
24. Acelino Freitas
25. Pone Kinpetch
26. Hogan Bassey
27. Lou Salica
28. Rafael Herrera
29. Ricky Hatton

What do you all think???

How about Rafael Herrera and Wilfredo Vazquez?

Great list. Deleon and Kingpetch for certain; Briscoe does not deserve induction. Those three guys stand out to me. A lot of the other names you listed are borderline-makes for a great debate.

elmersalsa wrote: ↑09 Oct 2022, 17:28 How about Rafael Herrera and Wilfredo Vazquez?

I listed Vazquez but forgot Herrera...let me see if I can put him there....

I'd also induct Marvin Johnson and Laciar. Hatton shouldn't be inducted and neither should Lockridge, in my opinion.

Lockridge lost a close decision to Chavez in a very good fight. Had two fights with Pedroza that could have gone his way. Got screwed against Gomez. He gets any of those 4 decisions and nobody would question him getting in.

I agree with Herrera, Vasquez, DeLeon, and Kingpetch.
Valdes certainly.
Lean towards putting Marvin Johnson in.
Hatton should but will some day.
Most of the other are a no, but a few are arguable.

How about the most obvious one of them all?
Eddie Mustapha Muhammad. He beat Johnson and Mathew Saad Muhammad. Should have been more than 20 years ago and I don't think he is even on the HOF ballot. Wasn't mentioned here either.
He may be the most underrated fighter of all time.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑10 Oct 2022, 16:11

How about the most obvious one of them all?
Eddie Mustapha Muhammad. He beat Johnson and Mathew Saad Muhammad. Should have been more than 20 years ago and I don't think he is even on the HOF ballot. Wasn't mentioned here either.
He may be the most underrated fighter of all time.

I was thinking about that!

Great champion but the thing that works against him is he only had one reign, unlike De Leon, Johnson, Vazquez, Kingpetch and etc, and his reign was not that lengthy,, like some of the others here.

But he did beat those two other greats and gave Spinks all he could handle. He was an excellent fighter.

In Bennie Briscoe's case he wasnt even a champ and I do have him on that list and not Mustapha Muhhamad,, but ..i don't know...he's just more of a sentimental case for me. Heck I havent even seen many of his fights but reading about them when I was a kid, I just imagined this very good boxer who was unlucky to win a title....

AntonioMartin wrote: ↑10 Oct 2022, 17:27

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑10 Oct 2022, 16:11

How about the most obvious one of them all?
Eddie Mustapha Muhammad. He beat Johnson and Mathew Saad Muhammad. Should have been more than 20 years ago and I don't think he is even on the HOF ballot. Wasn't mentioned here either.
He may be the most underrated fighter of all time.

I was thinking about that!

Great champion but the thing that works against him is he only had one reign, unlike De Leon, Johnson, Vazquez, Kingpetch and etc, and his reign was not that lengthy,, like some of the others here.

But he did beat those two other greats and gave Spinks all he could handle. He was an excellent fighter.

In Bennie Briscoe's case he wasnt even a champ and I do have him on that list and not Mustapha Muhhamad,, but ..i don't know...he's just more of a sentimental case for me. Heck I havent even seen many of his fights but reading about them when I was a kid, I just imagined this very good boxer who was unlucky to win a title....

You forgot that Sam Langford, Harry Wills, Sam McVey, Joe Jeannette, Peter Jackson, Jimmy Bivins, Charley Burley and Joe Choynski just to name several who never were world champions were inducted into the International Hall of Fame. Why not "Bad" Bennie? Briscoe deserve as much those fighters I mentioned who weren't champions as well and "Bad" Bennie fought big names in his career. The two best wins of Briscoe's career were future WBA Light Heavyweight Champions Eddie Mustafa Muhammad and the forgotten Vicente Rondon when both fought Briscoe at middleweights. If they were to induct "Bad" Bennie Briscoe into the International Boxing Hall of Fame, then they would induct him under the old timer category since their rules changed 7 years ago that fighters who last fought until 1988 are old timers and Briscoe was from the late era old timer.

Rodrigo Valdes-to me- is a very interesting case. Based on ability he gets in for certain but other than Briscoe the guys he beat were nothing special in my view.

nah on bennie, his record is too spotty

and many of those none world champs listed above were black dudes held back by race politics too, bennie wasnt

This goes against conventional wisdom, but I’m okay with letting in as many as possible. At this point, I don’t think you can put the toothpaste back in the tube.

In an ideal world, the Hall of Fame would’ve been much more restrictive. But here we are, so I’m just going the other way. Full speed ahead!

What the heck; we’re honoring people who took a lot of punishment to entertain us.

Oh, and I’ve said it before, but I’ll say it again. Eddie Mustafa Muhammad should be in as a boxer, a trainer and for his efforts to unionize the sport.

I actually don't think that the IBHOF has done a worse job than other sports. There are guys in the Baseball HOF, Pro Football Basketball HOF etc. who have no business being there. And guys who should have been in a long time ago who are not.

Early on, the Boxing Hall of Fame selected really well. Then they got to the point that they felt the need to put in heavyweights that didn't belong and the barn door was open. However, two wrongs don't make a right.

When a voter makes his selection, he is not picking against someone who is already in. (i.e, this guy was better than Gatti or he who shall not be named) but against other guys who aren't in.

The most important thing they need to do is realize that boxing is a sport where numbers are much less reliable than other sports. This is a sport where you choose your opponents after all. So win/loss records, and WBS title defenses should be not be the focal point, but seems to be.

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑11 Oct 2022, 19:26 nah on bennie, his record is too spotty

and many of those none world champs listed above were black dudes held back by race politics too, bennie wasnt

Billy Graham was inducted even though he was robbed in a fight against Kid Gavilan as Graham wasn't a champion and spotty record. Why not Bad Bennie? You said his record was too spotty, but he fought all comers in his prime and past his prime as Briscoe scored 53 knockouts out of 66 wins with 24 losses mostly past his prime. Old school fans see him as a Hall of Famer whether or not he was inducted or not because of his swarming punching style with knockout power.

Santos Laciar is probably the most deserving on the list, but overall the most deserving fighter not in the IBHOF is Jimmy Leto.

Laciar and Vazquez definitely yes. Also Pone, who was the first to beat Pascual Pérez and who also outpointed Fighting Harada and Ebihara in title fights. Bruno Arcari had a good record (70-2) and a nice four-year title reign but didn’t fight Cervantes or Locche, who were top dogs at 140 at the time.

I'm pretty strict so my list will be short.

Santos Laciar
Jose Legra
Ernesto Marcel
Marvin Johnson
Lou Salica
Pone Kingpetch
Rafael Herrera

All have good cases. Marcel was a HOF ATG talent but resume-wise he might be a little thin due to his early retirement. Salica is an all-time great, I feel. I can't believe he's not in. I think there's probably 20-25 guys already in that are inferior to these guys. Lionel Rose should be in. I can't believe he's not. I love Briscoe, and feel he's a very significant historical fighter and again, there's many inferior to him that are inducted but it doesn't quite feel he's a bonafide IBHOF guy.

Pongsaklek Wonjongkam isn't in the IBHOF yet, which is ridiculous.

chrisjs1985 wrote: ↑15 Oct 2022, 12:04 I'm pretty strict so my list will be short.

Santos Laciar
Jose Legra
Ernesto Marcel
Marvin Johnson
Lou Salica
Pone Kingpetch
Rafael Herrera

All have good cases. Marcel was a HOF ATG talent but resume-wise he might be a little thin due to his early retirement. Salica is an all-time great, I feel. I can't believe he's not in. I think there's probably 20-25 guys already in that are inferior to these guys. Lionel Rose should be in. I can't believe he's not. I love Briscoe, and feel he's a very significant historical fighter and again, there's many inferior to him that are inducted but it doesn't quite feel he's a bonafide IBHOF guy.

That's a decent list; I just don't see how people can keep picking Marvin Johnson over Eddie Mustapha Muhammad.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑17 Oct 2022, 11:22

chrisjs1985 wrote: ↑15 Oct 2022, 12:04 I'm pretty strict so my list will be short.

Santos Laciar
Jose Legra
Ernesto Marcel
Marvin Johnson
Lou Salica
Pone Kingpetch
Rafael Herrera

All have good cases. Marcel was a HOF ATG talent but resume-wise he might be a little thin due to his early retirement. Salica is an all-time great, I feel. I can't believe he's not in. I think there's probably 20-25 guys already in that are inferior to these guys. Lionel Rose should be in. I can't believe he's not. I love Briscoe, and feel he's a very significant historical fighter and again, there's many inferior to him that are inducted but it doesn't quite feel he's a bonafide IBHOF guy.

That's a decent list; I just don't see how people can keep picking Marvin Johnson over Eddie Mustapha Muhammad.

Despite their fight and the dominant victory by Eddie, I think Marvin got more out of his ability and had the better career.

Really? I guess he did have the win over Galindez, but otherwise I would go with Eddie. He also beat Saad Muhammad, who has been in for 24 years. Can't believe after all this time, Mustapha Muhammad is still not in.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑17 Oct 2022, 11:54 Really? I guess he did have the win over Galindez, but otherwise I would go with Eddie. He also beat Saad Muhammad, who has been in for 24 years. Can't believe after all this time, Mustapha Muhammad is still not in.

He was 3x time champ, had the great Galindez win too. I think Eddie was close to defeating Galindez too. I say both are worthy candidates for sure.

Seamus wrote: ↑17 Oct 2022, 09:52 Pongsaklek Wonjongkam isn't in the IBHOF yet, which is ridiculous.

Pong was great but hurt by the fact that he only fought in Thailand and Japan. Would have been great to see him in his prime in the US or somewhere else in the west. Always wanted to see him vs Narváez, who was at his best at flyweight and a longtime belt holder at the same time, in the US or Mexico or someplace else neutral, but there probably wasn’t enough money in it

Is Luis Estaba in?

bennie wrote: ↑19 Oct 2022, 00:59 Is Luis Estaba in?

No.

chrisjs1985 wrote: ↑19 Oct 2022, 11:15

bennie wrote: ↑19 Oct 2022, 00:59 Is Luis Estaba in?

No.

That's barmy. Estaba won his world title against a man making his pro debut (Rafael Lovera) but he made up for that with a long, hard-hitting reign.