BoxRec

Hi all, first post for a while.

I just wonder how prevealent PEDs are in the sport and how many people are (for want of a better word) in on it. Some of the most respected trainers, retired boxers and journalists have spoken out recently at their disgust regarding the Connor Benn situation. If it's an open secret that most top fighters are on them, I wouldn't expect the likes of Carl Frampton and Gareth A to be so genuinely angry/disappointed about it. I've spoken to a couple of trainers I know and they flat out refuse to believe that Tony Sims is involved in any way. So I guess I'm asking.

Do the promoters know which of their fighters are using?
Which members of the teams would know?
Could the boxers keep it from their trainers?

Be interesting to hear your thoughts on this.

there's stories about conor's dr. peds hanging around in the gym with him, what did sims think he was doing? wasnt he hanging with other simms fighters too? one of whom just withdrew from a fight.....

im skeptical of trainers who claim to know nothing of it, id expect them to know very closely what a fighter is doing with their body. dont a lot of peds get taken immediately after training sessions too

promoters are more removed from the day to day training and physical grinding, so i could more easily believe their claims of ignorance

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑01 Nov 2022, 15:46 there's stories about conor's dr. peds hanging around in the gym with him, what did sims think he was doing? wasnt he hanging with other simms fighters too? one of whom just withdrew from a fight.....

im skeptical of trainers who claim to know nothing of it, id expect them to know very closely what a fighter is doing with their body. dont a lot of peds get taken immediately after training sessions too

I somehow doubt they would fail to notice exponential physical gains in size and body shape and strength/explosiveness. I mean, you’re doing pads with the dude for years, suddenly he seems to hit harder? Nah. Training someone one on one would make you very aware of their physical properties and any changes IMO.

Counter-puncher wrote: ↑01 Nov 2022, 15:58

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑01 Nov 2022, 15:46 there's stories about conor's dr. peds hanging around in the gym with him, what did sims think he was doing? wasnt he hanging with other simms fighters too? one of whom just withdrew from a fight.....

im skeptical of trainers who claim to know nothing of it, id expect them to know very closely what a fighter is doing with their body. dont a lot of peds get taken immediately after training sessions too

I somehow doubt they would fail to notice exponential physical gains in size and body shape and strength/explosiveness. I mean, you’re doing pads with the dude for years, suddenly he seems to hit harder? Nah. Training someone one on one would make you very aware of their physical properties and any changes IMO.

But if they've been safe cycling all their career, would the trainer notice?

There’s peds and peds. I feel like I’m the 90s guys were just going for broke getting jacked, that’s probably rare now.

The one I often wonder about now is EPO. If I could take one drug as a boxer that would be it, stamina is everything in boxing, let’s you throw more, throw harder, take more, recover better, move more whatever you want..

EPO is supposedly an expensive test, I’d love to know how often people get tested for it, (at a ukad level, at a USA commission level, and at a vada level.

Have to say that Zep vs Diaz performance had me raising my eyebrows, buttt, little guys I guess. Areola vs kow had me thinking too, coupla big fatties throwing 100+ shots a round….Joyce is obviously a bit sus in that respect. (Now I don’t nessasarily think these guys are doing anything, but I’d be curious to see if they have been tested for EPO).

The other curiosity I have is TRT. Don’t think the idea of that, if your test is low it’s low deal with it (in pro sport not in life) I don’t know how many exceptions there are for TRT you do hear chatter from punters…. Boosting your test to the upper limit of natural is still cheating for me.

I think a lot of the top level guys are on them, lower down probably not so much as they ain't cheap from what I've read.

It's interesting how much bigger and stronger Lennox got during the 90's. It wasn't like he only added weight training later, as he was referenced in the weights room bench pressing and whatnot with Tyson in '84. Behind the scenes, he was probably blasting pretty hard for that edge.

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑01 Nov 2022, 16:04

Counter-puncher wrote: ↑01 Nov 2022, 15:58

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑01 Nov 2022, 15:46 there's stories about conor's dr. peds hanging around in the gym with him, what did sims think he was doing? wasnt he hanging with other simms fighters too? one of whom just withdrew from a fight.....

im skeptical of trainers who claim to know nothing of it, id expect them to know very closely what a fighter is doing with their body. dont a lot of peds get taken immediately after training sessions too

I somehow doubt they would fail to notice exponential physical gains in size and body shape and strength/explosiveness. I mean, you’re doing pads with the dude for years, suddenly he seems to hit harder? Nah. Training someone one on one would make you very aware of their physical properties and any changes IMO.

But if they've been safe cycling all their career, would the trainer notice?

No, definitely not.

Nightmare Roy wrote: ↑01 Nov 2022, 16:27 I think a lot of the top level guys are on them, lower down probably not so much as they ain't cheap from what I've read.

They are cheap mate. £150-200 would get you a full three month cycle.

Wee Tommy wrote: ↑01 Nov 2022, 17:23

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑01 Nov 2022, 16:04

Counter-puncher wrote: ↑01 Nov 2022, 15:58

I somehow doubt they would fail to notice exponential physical gains in size and body shape and strength/explosiveness. I mean, you’re doing pads with the dude for years, suddenly he seems to hit harder? Nah. Training someone one on one would make you very aware of their physical properties and any changes IMO.

But if they've been safe cycling all their career, would the trainer notice?

No, definitely not.

You’d know better than I would.

What about if he isn’t juicing right from the start, would it be evident to the trainer at any point after, when and if he did start, do you reckon?

In an early interview Fury said (and I'm paraphrasing) that pretty much everyone except him were on them, Oh, the irony,

Yes Keith. Long time.

This is a really important thread. I'd also throw in the question:

How much blame do you give the boxer who failed a drugs test?

Peter Fury made the point that these are young people, who do make mistakes.

Plus, we don't know what pressure they are under from sponsors/TV companies/promoters/Peer pressure etc.

Also, they might think that taking PEDS is their only chance of competing if they think/it is known that everyone else is on something.

But, really, if, for example, you are doing EPO, then you can throw as many punches as you want in the early rounds with full knowledge that you can, artificially, keep that work rate up. That's a huge advantage to have and changes the entire outcome of a fight if the opponent isn't on PEDS, it would seem to me.

I really think the Governing bodies need to impose some meaningful bans as an incentive not to take PEDS. Its a seriously dangerous sport being made more dangerous than it needs to be.

This article by Elliott Worsell really sums up how I feel, especially the concluding section:

https://www.boxingnewsonline.net/the-be ... way-to-go/

which PEDS are harmful and which are actually harmless? We all hear that steroids affect the heart etc (loads of WWF wrestlers going pop prematurely)

if the PEDS that are kinda ok for the body were just made legal, would that be a good idea? especially as it's apparently not that expensive and anybody could do it.

would save a lot of hassle

golden_balls wrote: ↑01 Nov 2022, 19:25 which PEDS are harmful and which are actually harmless? We all hear that steroids affect the heart etc (loads of WWF wrestlers going pop prematurely)

if the PEDS that are kinda ok for the body were just made legal, would that be a good idea? especially as it's apparently not that expensive and anybody could do it.

would save a lot of hassle

I’m someone who feels squeamish about legalisation, both of recreational drugs in society and PED’s in sport, but the older I get the more I think let them get on with the inevitable. The money and political will will never be there to eradicate them even if the demand side could ever be reduced (which it can’t, never mind eradicated).

Counter-puncher wrote: ↑01 Nov 2022, 19:55

golden_balls wrote: ↑01 Nov 2022, 19:25 which PEDS are harmful and which are actually harmless? We all hear that steroids affect the heart etc (loads of WWF wrestlers going pop prematurely)

if the PEDS that are kinda ok for the body were just made legal, would that be a good idea? especially as it's apparently not that expensive and anybody could do it.

would save a lot of hassle

I’m someone who feels squeamish about legalisation, both of recreational drugs in society and PED’s in sport, but the older I get the more I think let them get on with the inevitable. The money and political will will never be there to eradicate them even if the demand side could ever be reduced (which it can’t, never mind eradicated).

exactly. it's not perfect, but maybe it's better to legalise some and focus on the dangerous ones. most people know that modern athletes are doing all kinds of things to get an edge. why the facade of drugs testing with all its foibles and $$$?

Is there a doctor in the house?

Look taking any sort of PED in any sport at any elite level is wrong.

In a sport like boxing it is as wrong as it could possibly be.

Maybe that's what the crowd wants though....not unprecedented.......if no one wants a well matched points decision...........then they want a KO minimal....anything less is selling the gladitorial spirit short. Right?

Wrote a lenghty essay on it in another thread , so i'm not going to repeat myself except to reiterate ,, they should either stop testing completly . leave it open for everyone , then if someone is killed with outlandish weight making , hydration clauses , while his opponent is taking peds ,, perhaps encourage police to get manslaughter charges going , let the govt pay the bill to fight lawyers .

Or start giving life bans , for users , and encouraging police to look into anyone injured in previous fights with the view of serious assault charges ,, this may stop it .

Regards trainers ,, theres no way do good trainers , profesional well paid trainers . NOT KNOW ,,, fook sake dare any of you to go to Tony Simms gym , walk in and walk around talking to all and sundry especielly when there training for a big fight and not be questioned who you are ,,, then answer Oh i'm dr rip rap ,, Conors new doctor who lives 200 mile away , without questions being asked ,, are people realyy that gullible they believe he did'nt know excatly wether Connor was or WAS NOT on the juice

coneye wrote: ↑02 Nov 2022, 02:31 Wrote a lenghty essay on it in another thread , so i'm not going to repeat myself except to reiterate ,, they should either stop testing completly . leave it open for everyone , then if someone is killed with outlandish weight making , hydration clauses , while his opponent is taking peds ,, perhaps encourage police to get manslaughter charges going , let the govt pay the bill to fight lawyers .

Or start giving life bans , for users , and encouraging police to look into anyone injured in previous fights with the view of serious assault charges ,, this may stop it .

Regards trainers ,, theres no way do good trainers , profesional well paid trainers . NOT KNOW ,,, fook sake dare any of you to go to Tony Simms gym , walk in and walk around talking to all and sundry especielly when there training for a big fight and not be questioned who you are ,,, then answer Oh i'm dr rip rap ,, Conors new doctor who lives 200 mile away , without questions being asked ,, are people realyy that gullible they believe he did'nt know excatly wether Connor was or WAS NOT on the juice

I think I agree.

I think they are very prevalent - we recently had a young rugby player of our local team banned for taking them .. there have been various reports of middle aged cyclists caught using them to just ride local crit races .. it seems even the mediocre are getting in on them.

What often gets overlooked is that people are only tested for known banned substances - as professional cycling previously demonstrated with EPO; it can take a few years to become aware of the latest PEDs being used.

Even as a teenager cutting weight .....there were lads way ahead of their time using steroids bulking up to attract any bit of snatch available to them. And getting into nawties. Big lads back then were bouncers and distributors.

Just seems the norm nowaydays. Pretty much every lad are at it ..bulking up.

SticknMove wrote: ↑02 Nov 2022, 03:15 Even as a teenager cutting weight .....there were lads way ahead of their time using steroids bulking up to attract any bit of snatch available to them. And getting into nawties. Big lads back then were bouncers and distributors.

Just seems the norm nowaydays. Pretty much every lad are at it ..bulking up.

A lot of the teenage influencers are taking Sarms (a rough and ready equivalent of steroids), which are drugs not cleared as safe for human consumption. But you can order them legally online in the UK from underground type online supplement stores. Huge debate whether they actually work that well. Probably hugely harmful in the long term.

Counter-puncher wrote: ↑01 Nov 2022, 17:32

Wee Tommy wrote: ↑01 Nov 2022, 17:23

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑01 Nov 2022, 16:04

But if they've been safe cycling all their career, would the trainer notice?

No, definitely not.

You’d know better than I would.

What about if he isn’t juicing right from the start, would it be evident to the trainer at any point after, when and if he did start, do you reckon?

This needs a long post. Soon as I have time will do it.

Wee Tommy wrote: ↑02 Nov 2022, 04:16

Counter-puncher wrote: ↑01 Nov 2022, 17:32

Wee Tommy wrote: ↑01 Nov 2022, 17:23

No, definitely not.

You’d know better than I would.

What about if he isn’t juicing right from the start, would it be evident to the trainer at any point after, when and if he did start, do you reckon?

This needs a long post. Soon as I have time will do it.

cheers mate

I've got a mate who is really into the Obstacle Course Racing, him and a couple of mates from that have done a couple of Crossfit-type things and he said it was comical how many on that were clearly 'on it'