BoxRec

I was watching Peter Buckley v Richard Evatt the other day and had a closer look at Buckley's defence, often called cross-arm in his fight reports.

We've all seen the 'classic' cross-arm defence used by Moore, Frazier, 90s Foreman, and more recently by Chisora. But Buckley's version is rather different in that both elbows are kept tucked in (instead of having both arms parallel and elbows out) and both hands are held high, rather like the conventional guard but reversed. It's almost a completely different guard.

Have any other fighters used Buckley's version of the cross-arm defence? Why is it not used more often?

dookus wrote: ↑29 Dec 2022, 08:11 Have any other fighters used Buckley's version of the cross-arm defence? Why is it not used more often?

Because it's harder to get straight shots off?

How much success did Buckley have with it?

Boxerbeetle wrote: ↑29 Dec 2022, 09:45 How much success did Buckley have with it?

He didn't do too badly in his particular field, whatever you think of it.

Pugilist-specialist wrote: ↑29 Dec 2022, 09:39

dookus wrote: ↑29 Dec 2022, 08:11 Have any other fighters used Buckley's version of the cross-arm defence? Why is it not used more often?

Because it's harder to get straight shots off?

Sounds about right. The same is true for the classic cross-arm defence though (which has been used at a much higher level), hence I'm interested to know if anyone else used Buckley's version.

Boxerbeetle wrote: ↑29 Dec 2022, 09:45 How much success did Buckley have with it?

A lot. He’s still coherent after 300 fights.

mickey1975 wrote: ↑29 Dec 2022, 09:59

Boxerbeetle wrote: ↑29 Dec 2022, 09:45 How much success did Buckley have with it?

A lot. He’s still coherent after 300 fights.

very much so (my pal knows him). the average young local prospect would be doing well to land more than a couple of genuine clean shots on pete over 4 or 6x3's

mickey1975 wrote: ↑29 Dec 2022, 09:59

Boxerbeetle wrote: ↑29 Dec 2022, 09:45 How much success did Buckley have with it?

A lot. He’s still coherent after 300 fights.

How much money was he likely to have made in his whole career?

JamesPhilips wrote: ↑29 Dec 2022, 10:32

mickey1975 wrote: ↑29 Dec 2022, 09:59

Boxerbeetle wrote: ↑29 Dec 2022, 09:45 How much success did Buckley have with it?

A lot. He’s still coherent after 300 fights.

How much money was he likely to have made in his whole career?

I'd guess half a milly

Nightmare Roy wrote: ↑29 Dec 2022, 10:34

JamesPhilips wrote: ↑29 Dec 2022, 10:32

mickey1975 wrote: ↑29 Dec 2022, 09:59
A lot. He’s still coherent after 300 fights.

How much money was he likely to have made in his whole career?

I'd guess half a milly

Yeah that’s seems likely. Just seen there’s a book on him… anyone read it?

Not yet. Can’t get it open.

dookus wrote: ↑29 Dec 2022, 08:11 I was watching Peter Buckley v Richard Evatt the other day and had a closer look at Buckley's defence, often called cross-arm in his fight reports.

We've all seen the 'classic' cross-arm defence used by Moore, Frazier, 90s Foreman, and more recently by Chisora. But Buckley's version is rather different in that both elbows are kept tucked in (instead of having both arms parallel and elbows out) and both hands are held high, rather like the conventional guard but reversed. It's almost a completely different guard.

Have any other fighters used Buckley's version of the cross-arm defence? Why is it not used more often?

freddie mills and len harvey

Britisk boxers need to fight boxers who come to win. What a bunch of pussies.

Boxerbeetle wrote: ↑29 Dec 2022, 09:45 How much success did Buckley have with it?

Well despite the 300 fights he has been officially stopped ten times and one of those was a pretty shitty stoppage in the second Hamed fight after being his only early opponent to take him the full four

Worth noting he was actually 7-1-1 in his first 9 fights

He is fully cognitive and says it's a shame young boxing journeymen are fed to prospects without knowing how to defend themselves

I'd say in the grand scheme of the thankless and brutal sport of boxing, he's done very fornicating well actually

Has pro fights against Naseem and Kell Brook, boy was around for a looooooooong time

JamesPhilips wrote: ↑29 Dec 2022, 10:32

mickey1975 wrote: ↑29 Dec 2022, 09:59

Boxerbeetle wrote: ↑29 Dec 2022, 09:45 How much success did Buckley have with it?

A lot. He’s still coherent after 300 fights.

How much money was he likely to have made in his whole career?

More than a lot of 15-0 padded prospects who had to retire because they couldn't get fights and were having to leave their day job an hour early to try stand in the street and sell tickets and train for peak fitness and actual success in the sport itself

Buckley would have been earning nicely getting "outworked" but never really hit clean

Whereas Michael Gomez , who beat him, was slurring in his early twenties, legitimately worrying

dookus wrote: ↑29 Dec 2022, 08:11 I was watching Peter Buckley v Richard Evatt the other day and had a closer look at Buckley's defence, often called cross-arm in his fight reports.

We've all seen the 'classic' cross-arm defence used by Moore, Frazier, 90s Foreman, and more recently by Chisora. But Buckley's version is rather different in that both elbows are kept tucked in (instead of having both arms parallel and elbows out) and both hands are held high, rather like the conventional guard but reversed. It's almost a completely different guard.

Have any other fighters used Buckley's version of the cross-arm defence? Why is it not used more often?

I call it the butterfly guard but I probably didn't coin that

GreenLightning wrote: ↑30 Dec 2022, 02:42

JamesPhilips wrote: ↑29 Dec 2022, 10:32

mickey1975 wrote: ↑29 Dec 2022, 09:59
A lot. He’s still coherent after 300 fights.

How much money was he likely to have made in his whole career?

More than a lot of 15-0 padded prospects who had to retire because they couldn't get fights and were having to leave their day job an hour early to try stand in the street and sell tickets and train for peak fitness and actual success in the sport itself

Buckley would have been earning nicely getting "outworked" but never really hit clean

Whereas Michael Gomez , who beat him, was slurring in his early twenties, legitimately worrying

Gomez won’t have been helped by copious amounts of drink and drugs.

I used to spar with an ex Welsh Amateur international who adopted a similar guard in his later amateur career (when he was in a semi retirement) - impossible to hit clean, but he just couldn't let his hands go. He lost a fair few fights (at the tail end) that he probably had the capabilities still of winning because he was very much in sparring partner mentality with that guard.

That’s the main issue with it. I initially presumed the question was asking why it hadn’t been adopted at a higher level, which seems self-explanatory. But maybe it was more about why more journeymen don’t use it, which is a fair question I suppose.

Steveh583 wrote: ↑29 Dec 2022, 20:22

dookus wrote: ↑29 Dec 2022, 08:11 I was watching Peter Buckley v Richard Evatt the other day and had a closer look at Buckley's defence, often called cross-arm in his fight reports.

We've all seen the 'classic' cross-arm defence used by Moore, Frazier, 90s Foreman, and more recently by Chisora. But Buckley's version is rather different in that both elbows are kept tucked in (instead of having both arms parallel and elbows out) and both hands are held high, rather like the conventional guard but reversed. It's almost a completely different guard.

Have any other fighters used Buckley's version of the cross-arm defence? Why is it not used more often?

freddie mills and len harvey

More than a few journeyman seem to have one arm that doesn’t really work right in terms of punching. I think Buckley was effectively a one-armed fighter and perhaps the guard played into that issue.

polecateddy wrote: ↑30 Dec 2022, 10:22 More than a few journeyman seem to have one arm that doesn’t really work right in terms of punching. I think Buckley was effectively a one-armed fighter and perhaps the guard played into that issue.

Prob don’t want to risk hitting the prospect by letting a right hand go lol

Peter Buckley: I just love boxing. I was fighting every week more or less. I never turned a fight down. I injured my shoulder in a fight so I probably should have had a good rest really but I didn’t bother so in a lot of my fights I actually fought with one arm for a lot of my career. I used to have a lot of physio on it which didn’t really work. The last few years I started having acupuncture on my shoulder and that seemed to cure the problem. I just loved boxing really.

Peter Buckley: Yeah, I had a good defence. I had a cross arm defence which I picked up from watching a lot of the old greats. It’s a good defence because if someone’s hitting you on the glove you learn how to roll with the shots and I was always tucked behind my left shoulder. If my opponent threw a right hand and I was tucked behind my left shoulder, it’s actually difficult for the right hand to hit you flush. If you got a cross arm defence and someone’s hitting you with hooks and that, it’s actually a bit like someone hitting you on the pads, but just a bit harder. It worked because in 300 fights I never even had a cut eye. The only cut I ever had was on my nose and that was from a clash of heads.