BoxRec

We had an extremely interesting topic of Wlad vs Mike Tyson with tones of fireworks, yet with a quite confident score for Tyson, about 70 to 30 percents. Let's give Wlad a more competetive matchup, against a demo-version of Iron Mike.

So, who ranks higher, Wlad or Floyd?

Wlad. One is great the other is good.

I agree; with your second sentence.

One guy was stopped 5x, against Ali (2x) Liston(2x), and Johannson. Stopped Moore, Johansson 2x, and beat Machen convincingly. Won a great fight against Chuvalo. Beat Bonavena when he was past it.

The other guy got stopped by three lesser fighters. Beat Chris Byrd, and many other professional fighters.

This is a no Brainer.

Wlad, and it's not close.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑04 Jan 2023, 12:18 This is a no Brainer.

Wlad, and it's not close.

Patterson's best wins were Johansson, Moore, Bonavena, Chuvalo and Cooper. The least three were quite limited, although Bonavena could give hell to many fighters. Moore was a great fighter at the LHW, he wasn't capable of winning elite HWs.

Klit's best wins were Povetkin, Byrd, Haye, Rahman, Chagaev, Pulev, Ibragimov, who were significantly more advanced in comparison to the likes of Chuvalo and Cooper. It's especially tough to see any of Floyd's list winning the likes of Povetkin or Byrd.

Both were imperfect leaders of their eras. Patterson eventually lost to the main contender. Wlad has never faced the main contender, yet did much more than him. Klit surpasses Patty with in both quality and quantity.

How many of those great Klit's opponents do you see putting Ali on it's ass like the limited Cooper did?

Jaywheel wrote: ↑04 Jan 2023, 15:07 How many of those great Klit's opponents do you see putting Ali on it's ass like the limited Cooper did?

Where someone called them great? Still better than the sluggish Cooper, who got a one second of fame against over-confident Clay.

What was Cooper's best win ?

Seamus wrote: ↑04 Jan 2023, 16:20 What was Cooper's best win ?

I venture to say that Henry Cooper's best win was probably against Zora Folley because anytime Cooper basically left the British and Commonwealth level he almost always lost and that was really the only top 10 worthy heavyweight he ever beat.

Cooper also could have got the decision against Bugner and he was well past it by then.
Lets not get sidetracked by Cooper.

Patterson beat several fighters far better- Johannson, Moore, Machen, Bonavena. That trumps a win over Chris Byrd.

Klitschko did beat professional fighters like Povetkin, Haye, Chagaev, Pulev, Ibragimov, who gave us so many memories with their fights.
Klitschko did beat Rahman but Rahman was past and not exactly a great fighter even in his prime.

Eddie Machen was more "advanced" then anyone Klitschko ever beat.
Archie Moore was obviously not as good as heavy as light heavy, but he was still very good. Beat Henry, Valdes, Baker etc.

Many people only have the image of Patterson getting crushed by Liston.
Watch his fights against Moore, Jackson II, Johannson II, Machen, Chuvalo, Bonavena.

Rahman does have the Lewis win though. Ibragimov has a win against ancient Evander and asthmaroid Briggs and a nice draw against Austin.

I still maintain it don't really matter who has the better wins when you are basically 6 ft tall and 190 lb going up against somebody 6 foot 7 and nearly 250 lb of solid muscle with all the athleticism that goes with it. When was the last time you ever saw somebody that small ever make it into the top 10 ratings?

Come on. Not the weight again.

nothing gets our ol bois going like some klits

5'10'' Toney dispatched Evander 4 years before mighty Ibragimov did, in much more convincing fashion.

For a reason. German promoted smoke shows like Ottke and Erdei. Vitali was a durable robot, Wlad had a good offensive arsenal and a glass chin. Neither has a great win, nor did they win in spectacular fashion against good opponents.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑04 Jan 2023, 17:06 Come on. Not the weight again.

Again tell me somebody being 6 ft tall and 190 lbs being in the Top 10 rankings in the past 30 Years cuz I can't really think of one. Chris Byrd was like 210 pounds, and Tomasz Adamek was like 214 pounds in his heavyweight debut. Floyd Patterson was 188 pounds in his final fight against Ali, and was 184 when he fought Archie Moore.

And you seen how incredibly small those guys were compared to the Klitschko brothers so could you imagine how absolutely tiny Floyd Patterson would look going up against the Klitschko brothers?

Easy one. Wlad by a mile.

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑04 Jan 2023, 17:12 nothing gets our ol bois going like some klits

Basically, a one boi for all times. Alone against a couple of them Klits.

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑04 Jan 2023, 17:00 I still maintain it don't really matter who has the better wins when you are basically 6 ft tall and 190 lb going up against somebody 6 foot 7 and nearly 250 lb of solid muscle with all the athleticism that goes with it. When was the last time you ever saw somebody that small ever make it into the top 10 ratings?

30-40 years ago maybe?

Patterson for me. They both had easy defences, but Patterson's win against Moore was better than anything Wlad did.

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑05 Jan 2023, 11:10 Patterson for me. They both had easy defences, but Patterson's win against Moore was better than anything Wlad did.

No matter how weak Vladimir Klitschko's title defenses were they certainly were not as weak as the pro debuting Pete Rademacher, the unheralded Roy Harris, club fighting Tom McNeeley and Brian London.

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑05 Jan 2023, 11:23

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑05 Jan 2023, 11:10 Patterson for me. They both had easy defences, but Patterson's win against Moore was better than anything Wlad did.

No matter how weak Vladimir Klitschko's title defenses were they certainly were not as weak as the pro debuting Pete Rademacher, the unheralded Roy Harris, club fighting Tom McNeeley and Brian London.

I'll stick to the facts....
In his prime Patterson only lost to Hall of Famers
Patterson beat a Hall of Famer, who outweighed him to win the title.
Patterson avenged one of his losses twice against a Hall of Famer.

In his prime Wlad only lost to guys who are not in the Hall of Fame
Wlad never beat a Hall of Famer.
Wlad only avenged one of his losses, who isn't in the Hall of Fame and was coming off a loss.

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑05 Jan 2023, 11:43

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑05 Jan 2023, 11:23

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑05 Jan 2023, 11:10 Patterson for me. They both had easy defences, but Patterson's win against Moore was better than anything Wlad did.

No matter how weak Vladimir Klitschko's title defenses were they certainly were not as weak as the pro debuting Pete Rademacher, the unheralded Roy Harris, club fighting Tom McNeeley and Brian London.

I'll stick to the facts....
In his prime Patterson only lost to Hall of Famers
Patterson beat a Hall of Famer, who outweighed him to win the title.
Patterson avenged one of his losses twice against a Hall of Famer.

In his prime Wlad only lost to guys who are not in the Hall of Fame
Wlad never beat a Hall of Famer.
Wlad only avenged one of his losses, who isn't in the Hall of Fame and was coming off a loss.

Considering how diluted the Hall of Fame has become and is going to continue becoming all the more diluted it don't really hold much water for me when people talk about the Hall of Fame.

If it is a critique against Rocky Marciano for having fought Archie Moore because they always bring up Archie's age, then it is an even greater critique against Floyd Patterson.

Mind you I like Patterson but in my view he fought far better opposition following his championship reign. He's literally the only case I can think of in boxing history where a man was better or got better after being champion.

And we don't really need to remind people that Archie was originally a middleweight who was the light heavyweight champion when he fought Rocky Marciano and Floyd Patterson. Wins against men your own size or near your own size is one thing it's something else entirely when you are fighting men twice as big as yourself.

Which is why I keep bringing up time and again it don't matter who has the better resume of wins because head to head it's very difficult to imagine somebody 6 ft tall and 190 lb being able to do anything to the Klitschko brothers. Can you really make a convincing argument that Floyd Patterson would have defeated either one or both?