BoxRec

Apart from his one punch comeback against Damiani, his only good win was against the unbeaten hype job that was Tommy Morrison. This is the same guy Michael Bentt shattered in a round. Ray lost to 42 year old Larry Holmes and Jesse Ferguson. I think he gets an American biased by some.

Tommy Morrison was not a 'hype job"
and he walked/ran right into a in-coming punch,
when Michael Bent was covering up but throwing from on the ropes.
Morrison was still able to get back up on his feet after the third knockdown.

do people rate him all that high

Ray Mercer started the pro game a little late and he was a little undersized in comparison to different heavyweights out there. That being said he was able to overcome a lot of good challenges and even on the losing end of fights he was often competitive against the likes of a prime Lennox Lewis. Overrated? I don't know. I don't think anyone has ever said he would have been heavyweight champion in other era's but I think he would have been a top contender in most eras just like he was a top contender in the 90s.

I feel like he's rated right alongside David Tua as one of the better Contenders of the 90's who never won a major title, and I think that's a fair assessment of him.

I can't say I've ever seen too many people overrate him.

Mercer isn't overrated. He had a legitimate claim to be #4 of the 90s, after Lennox, Holy, Bowe and Tyson.

He didn't only defeated top fighters like Damiani, Morrison and Witherspoon, but also gave highly competetive bouts to Lennox and Holy.

Yes, he lost to aged Holmes and to a journeyman Ferguson, but his ups were much more significant than downs.

DrDuke wrote: ↑11 Jan 2023, 03:51 He had a legitimate claim to be #4 of the 90s,

If you lose to Jesse Ferguson, you're not the 4th best in the decade. Don't be silly.

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑11 Jan 2023, 11:33

DrDuke wrote: ↑11 Jan 2023, 03:51 He had a legitimate claim to be #4 of the 90s,

If you lose to Jesse Ferguson, you're not the 4th best in the decade. Don't be silly.

What's silly about that? Who if not him?

Mercer is hard to rate. Some people overrate him and some underrate him.


If you look at just the Ferguson fight, then he looks terrible. Even the the 2nd Ferguson fight he didn't look much better.
Also looked bad when he got beat convincingly by an old Larry Holmes.

On the hand, he did look good against Morrison. He fought a very good fight against Holyfield and Lewis. If he would have got the decision against Lewis (or even a draw) people would think rate him a lot higher.

He didn't look that good against Damiani but did come on to stop him which has to count for something.
He probably deserves to be rated below the mid-level hw champs (Sharkey, Schmeling, Baer, Walcott, Charles etc.) but ahead of the title holders of the late 1970s-early 1990s (Witherspoon, Thomas etc.)

DrDuke wrote: ↑11 Jan 2023, 11:50

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑11 Jan 2023, 11:33

DrDuke wrote: ↑11 Jan 2023, 03:51 He had a legitimate claim to be #4 of the 90s,

If you lose to Jesse Ferguson, you're not the 4th best in the decade. Don't be silly.

What's silly about that? Who if not him?

God, where do I start.... Moorer, Foreman, Ike, Larry Holmes, McCall, Bruno, Tua..... want some more?

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑10 Jan 2023, 16:58 do people rate him all that high

4th best boxer of the 90's according to DrDuke

Like a lot of fighters on their best day they are capable of causing an upset. More so at HW I think it's easier to not train your hardest for every bout as there's no weight limit to get under. So lots of HWs underperform. But when they turn up they look like a different fighter, Buster Douglas a perfect example. Mercer was tough and gave Lewis a hard fight losing on a MD, some thought he deserved the nod. He wasn't the biggest HW but could take a good shot and give one back. Like so many fighters inconsistency, laziness or lack of professionalism lets them down.

DrDuke wrote: ↑11 Jan 2023, 03:51 Mercer isn't overrated. He had a legitimate claim to be #4 of the 90s, after Lennox, Holy, Bowe and Tyson.

He didn't only defeated top fighters like Damiani, Morrison and Witherspoon, but also gave highly competetive bouts to Lennox and Holy.

Yes, he lost to aged Holmes and to a journeyman Ferguson, but his ups were much more significant than downs.

After, Lennox, Holy, Bowe and Tyson would only make Mercer #5.

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑11 Jan 2023, 11:56

DrDuke wrote: ↑11 Jan 2023, 11:50

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑11 Jan 2023, 11:33

If you lose to Jesse Ferguson, you're not the 4th best in the decade. Don't be silly.

What's silly about that? Who if not him?

God, where do I start.... Moorer, Foreman, Ike, Larry Holmes, McCall, Bruno, Tua..... want some more?

Foreman was awarded wins over Alex Stewart, Axel Schulz and Lou Savarese.

Moorer was stopped by him, before he had gone life-and-death with Cooper, against whom Mercer performed better.

McCall was an over-achieved mediocre fighter, a one hit wonder.

Holmes lost to McCall.

Bruno had never won a legitimate top fighter.

Tua lost to Ibrabuchi and had a lot of fights, where he used his puncher's chance.

None of the mentioned fought Holy or Lewis like Mercer did. Moorer only won te injured version of Holyfield, while the rematch showed their true levels.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑11 Jan 2023, 12:03

DrDuke wrote: ↑11 Jan 2023, 03:51 Mercer isn't overrated. He had a legitimate claim to be #4 of the 90s, after Lennox, Holy, Bowe and Tyson.

He didn't only defeated top fighters like Damiani, Morrison and Witherspoon, but also gave highly competetive bouts to Lennox and Holy.

Yes, he lost to aged Holmes and to a journeyman Ferguson, but his ups were much more significant than downs.

After, Lennox, Holy, Bowe and Tyson would only make Mercer #5.

Indeed.

DrDuke wrote: ↑11 Jan 2023, 12:07 None of the mentioned fought Holy or Lewis like Mercer did. Moorer only won te injured version of Holyfield, while the rematch showed their true levels.

He lost to both of them......and Ferguson,....and Holmes.

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑11 Jan 2023, 12:12

DrDuke wrote: ↑11 Jan 2023, 12:07 None of the mentioned fought Holy or Lewis like Mercer did. Moorer only won te injured version of Holyfield, while the rematch showed their true levels.

He lost to both of them......and Ferguson,....and Holmes.

His ups are higher than ups of the mentioned fighters. Only Moorer is arguable because of the official win over Holy.

DrDuke wrote: ↑11 Jan 2023, 12:14

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑11 Jan 2023, 12:12

DrDuke wrote: ↑11 Jan 2023, 12:07 None of the mentioned fought Holy or Lewis like Mercer did. Moorer only won te injured version of Holyfield, while the rematch showed their true levels.

He lost to both of them......and Ferguson,....and Holmes.

His ups are higher than ups of the mentioned fighters. Only Moorer is arguable because of the official win over Holy.

Bruno beat the guy who beat Lennox Lewis. Holmes BEAT Mercer.

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑11 Jan 2023, 12:15

DrDuke wrote: ↑11 Jan 2023, 12:14

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑11 Jan 2023, 12:12

He lost to both of them......and Ferguson,....and Holmes.

His ups are higher than ups of the mentioned fighters. Only Moorer is arguable because of the official win over Holy.

Bruno beat the guy who beat Lennox Lewis. Holmes BEAT Mercer.

The guy who beat Lewis was far worse than Mercer and a row of other fighters. Holmes lost to him.

DrDuke wrote: ↑11 Jan 2023, 12:18

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑11 Jan 2023, 12:15

DrDuke wrote: ↑11 Jan 2023, 12:14

His ups are higher than ups of the mentioned fighters. Only Moorer is arguable because of the official win over Holy.

Bruno beat the guy who beat Lennox Lewis. Holmes BEAT Mercer.

The guy who beat Lewis was far worse than Mercer and a row of other fighters. Holmes lost to him.

So McCall beats Lennox Lewis and Ray Mercer losses to Jesse Ferguson and somehow on Planet Duke, Mercer gets a pass and leapfrogs McCall.

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑11 Jan 2023, 12:20

DrDuke wrote: ↑11 Jan 2023, 12:18

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑11 Jan 2023, 12:15

Bruno beat the guy who beat Lennox Lewis. Holmes BEAT Mercer.

The guy who beat Lewis was far worse than Mercer and a row of other fighters. Holmes lost to him.

So McCall beats Lennox Lewis and Ray Mercer losses to Jesse Ferguson and somehow on Planet Duke, Mercer gets a pass and leapfrogs McCall.

Suddenly, McCall got an overall worse credibility. He was considered as a journeyman before Damiani FFS.

Boringly, I think Mercer is probably in exactly the right place in terms of what he did and how he is perceived.

He was a constant threat during his prime and secured some decent wins but could also be tripped-up by guys he was supposed to sweep aside or he ended-up having some troubles getting a result against.

I think Ray's losing fight with Lewis - when Lennox looked a guy on the wrong end of a massive pub brawl - has always been the complicating factor.

Firstly, because it could have just easily been an draw or been an MD for Mercer. The much-missed Brit Mag Boxing Monthly openly said that Mercer got the thin end off the wedge. And it was hard not to disagree.

But the Lewis fight also suggested that Mercer was capable of far, far more and against the very elite guys.

DrDuke wrote: ↑11 Jan 2023, 14:32

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑11 Jan 2023, 12:20

DrDuke wrote: ↑11 Jan 2023, 12:18

The guy who beat Lewis was far worse than Mercer and a row of other fighters. Holmes lost to him.

So McCall beats Lennox Lewis and Ray Mercer losses to Jesse Ferguson and somehow on Planet Duke, Mercer gets a pass and leapfrogs McCall.

Suddenly, McCall got an overall worse credibility. He was considered as a journeyman before Damiani FFS.

Jesse Ferguson was a journeyman and Mercer lost to him. You just choose to ignore it. McCall beat Lennox Lewis and then Larry Holmes, who beat Mercer. Name the two boxers Mercer beat who were as good as Lewis and Holmes.

Stop being silly. I'm starting to think that you may not be a real Doctor.

Context is everything and Oliver McCall prior to his shocking upset win over Lennox Lewis was basically seen as a glorified journeyman or trial horse. Only in retrospect is he held in greater esteem then he was at the time.

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑11 Jan 2023, 15:24 Context is everything and Oliver McCall prior to his shocking upset win over Lennox Lewis was basically seen as a glorified journeyman or trial horse. Only in retrospect is he held in greater esteem then he was at the time.

He beat the unbeaten Seldon and Damiani. Those wins made him a contender. Then he beat a Hall of Famer and successfully defended against another one.