BoxRec

Ali - Liston, Frazier & Foreman

Did anyone do better?

easily ali, though for some people it's hip to rate louis higher

Yes. The trifecta of Liston, Frazier and Foreman is near impossible to top.

The only Heavyweight who even comes close would be Lennox Lewis I guess, but even he falls well short.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑14 Jan 2023, 21:53 Yes. The trifecta of Liston, Frazier and Foreman is near impossible to top.

The only Heavyweight who even comes close would be Lennox Lewis I guess, but even he falls well short.

Gene Tunney's is pretty good too, just smaller guys (even though at HW)

Dempsey
Carpentier
Grebb

Joe Louis
WKO1 Max Schmeling
WKO13 Billy Conn
WKO11 Jersey Joe Walcott (II)

They really do all pale vs the Greatest.

Foreman's is pretty good:

Frazier
Norton
Lyle

How about the great Rocky Marciano?
WTKO13 Jersey Joe Walcott
W15 Ezzard Charles
WTKO9 Archie Moore

I know, I know, those guys were past a little bit of miles in the tank, but, they were still dangerous and not anybody could have beaten them that easy. Even then, you had to fight hard, very hard to beat those guys when Marciano beat them.

Am I wrong?

If we are going simply by names alone rather than the context of the matches whether people were in their primes or not... Holyfield, Tyson and Klitschko are pretty close and that's on Lennox Lewis's resume.

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑14 Jan 2023, 22:50 If we are going simply by names alone rather than the context of the matches whether people were in their primes or not... Holyfield, Tyson and Klitschko are pretty close and that's on Lennox Lewis's resume.

Yeah exactly. That's why he's #2 behind Ali.

If Holyfield and Tyson would've both been prime, he'd be right there neck and neck with Ali in this department, and for the record I will say that even though Holyfield may have been slightly past his best I'd still give it to Lennox that he was still damn formidable at the time. Tyson was pretty much just a name only by the time Lennox got him.

elmersalsa wrote: ↑14 Jan 2023, 22:31 How about the great Rocky Marciano?
WTKO13 Jersey Joe Walcott
W15 Ezzard Charles
WTKO9 Archie Moore

I know, I know, those guys were past a little bit of miles in the tank, but, they were still dangerous and not anybody could have beaten them that easy. Even then, you had to fight hard, very hard to beat those guys when Marciano beat them.

Am I wrong?

Are you putting this forward as better than Ali's three wins or giving it an honourable mention?

Johnson: McVey, Jennette, Langford

Schmeling: Louis, Sharkey (one more and he'd be up there)

Not the best, and officially he didn't get the wins in some fights but Jimmy Young beat Foreman and Lyle and lost close decisions to Ali and Norton (fights some thought he won)

Controversial wrote: ↑15 Jan 2023, 07:31 Not the best, and officially he didn't get the wins in some fights but Jimmy Young beat Foreman and Lyle and lost close decisions to Ali and Norton (fights some thought he won)

Also, robbed vs Shavers.

Imagine Young having them all: Ali, Foreman, Norton, Lyle, Shavers.

DrDuke wrote: ↑15 Jan 2023, 08:39

Controversial wrote: ↑15 Jan 2023, 07:31 Not the best, and officially he didn't get the wins in some fights but Jimmy Young beat Foreman and Lyle and lost close decisions to Ali and Norton (fights some thought he won)

Also, robbed vs Shavers.

Imagine Young having them all: Ali, Foreman, Norton, Lyle, Shavers.

He'd be the winner if that was the case and he was never champ

Controversial wrote: ↑15 Jan 2023, 10:51

DrDuke wrote: ↑15 Jan 2023, 08:39

Controversial wrote: ↑15 Jan 2023, 07:31 Not the best, and officially he didn't get the wins in some fights but Jimmy Young beat Foreman and Lyle and lost close decisions to Ali and Norton (fights some thought he won)

Also, robbed vs Shavers.

Imagine Young having them all: Ali, Foreman, Norton, Lyle, Shavers.

He'd be the winner if that was the case and he was never champ

Ali was miles past his best when he fought Young.

Ali beat Liston to win the title, beat Frazier 2 out of 3 and Foreman as champ.

Even Ali's second best 3 are terrific:

Lyle
Shavers
Quarry

Next is better than fair:
Patterson
Bonavena
Ellis

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑15 Jan 2023, 12:47

Controversial wrote: ↑15 Jan 2023, 10:51

DrDuke wrote: ↑15 Jan 2023, 08:39

Also, robbed vs Shavers.

Imagine Young having them all: Ali, Foreman, Norton, Lyle, Shavers.

He'd be the winner if that was the case and he was never champ

Ali was miles past his best when he fought Young.

Ali beat Liston to win the title, beat Frazier 2 out of 3 and Foreman as champ.

Yeah true, was more thinking for someone who wasn’t even a champ

Ezzard wrote: ↑15 Jan 2023, 07:20 Johnson: McVey, Jennette, Langford

Schmeling: Louis, Sharkey (one more and he'd be up there)

mcvea was 18 and had been boxing for just over a year when johnson beat him. langford was a 156 pound 19 year old facing a 26 year old 190 pound man. it would've been good to see him fight these guys when they were more developed

is there any other case in history, where people consider it an atg win to beat a teenager who hadn't even picked up the sport 2 years earlier? sounds crazy writing that

oogiebe wrote: ↑14 Jan 2023, 22:29 They really do all pale vs the Greatest.

Foreman's is pretty good:

Frazier
Norton
Lyle

Foreman might be #2. Holyfield had Bowe and Tyson, then there is a drop off.

1116701 wrote: ↑17 Jan 2023, 10:48 Ali, Rocky Marciano, Joe Louis, and Larry Holmes are the best boxers.

Absolutely nothing to do with this topic, but thanks.

1. Ali
2. Marciano
3. Holyfield
4. Lewis

Jeff_lacy_ko wrote: ↑17 Jan 2023, 23:21 1. Ali
2. Marciano
3. Holyfield
4. Lewis

You saying Marciano is 2nd only to Ali as far as the 3 best wins on someone's record?

Because I'd say he's WAY behind him.

On paper Marciano can be even better than Ali. He defeated the legendary Joe Louis, whose record of the undisputed World title defences is still unbeaten. He defeated Louis' successor Ezzard Charles, who has a p4p ATG claim. And he defeated Walcott, who was robbed against Louis and KOed Charles.

And Ali defeated only the short-lived Liston as well as some fighters of his own era, whom he made popular himself because of his cultural impact on the sport. According to some posters of this forum, it's a sh1t of an achievement just to be a champ of your own era.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑18 Jan 2023, 02:15

Jeff_lacy_ko wrote: ↑17 Jan 2023, 23:21 1. Ali
2. Marciano
3. Holyfield
4. Lewis

You saying Marciano is 2nd only to Ali as far as the 3 best wins on someone's record?

Because I'd say he's WAY behind him.

Walcott, charles, joe louis (albeit old) is pretty darn good. Ali is light years ahead of everyone its no question he has the best

Despite how history unfolded. Too me no one was in a better spot in time to prove himself than Jack Dempsey...

Dempsey certainly could of fought an Over the hill Sam Langford 1917

Dempsey should of fought a prime Harry Wills in 1919 pre title (far before there supposed match date)

Dempsey should of had at least 1 title defense against Kid Norfolk at some point.

and Finally Dempsey should of probably had fought Harry Greb in place of george carpentier.

If Dempsey had wins over Langford, Wills & Norfolk and Greb he would be rated as one of the greatest. Do i think he would beat all these guys? No

But he was perfectly place in the timeframe of history to majorly capitalize much more than he did.

The langford win would have really looked good on his resume as his manager i would have have matched him immediately with Sam Langford after Langford lost to Fulton.

Jack Dempsey has to rank as the biggest missed opportunity's in history. Not to mention he probably could have faced a not quite as seasoned Gene Tunney much earlier if he had stayed busy.

No one would rank higher having a Langford win, a Wills win, a Norfolk win, a Greb win & a Tunney win. His lack of effort was just unfathomable, history had him perfectly placed in time to capitalize