Ali and the Heavyweights: What Would You Love to See that Didn't Happened?

elmersalsa
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Ali and the Heavyweights: What Would You Love to See that Didn't Happened?

Post by elmersalsa »

Your thoughts.
DrDuke
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Re: Ali and the Heavyweights: What Would You Love to See that Didn't Happened?

Post by DrDuke »

He had a comprehensive career and faced everyone be should have fought. Barely anyone will feel a lack of the Ali-Bobick bout, for example, or the Peralta one.
Last edited by DrDuke on 14 Feb 2023, 22:19, edited 1 time in total.
p4p1
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Re: Ali and the Heavyweights: What Would You Love to See that Didn't Happened?

Post by p4p1 »

Loved to see is too strong of a phrase but it would have been good if he was more active during 64-65. Not that it would have in anyway of helped his legacy all that much. He could have given Doug Jones a rematch during early 64 before Jones lost to Daniels. In hindsight, a one sided as kicking, which it would have been would have stopped the Jones arguments that have come along since the internet was invented.
Machen may have been a nice name to have during 63 but why would he risk his guaranteed shot after the Cooper fight?
Thad Spencer or Amos Lincoln sometime during 64-65 would have been another 'name' on his record. The big loss of his career, if we can call it a loss outside of the exile are that between feb 64 and and feb 66 just before the Chuvalo fight Ali only fought 3 x in that two year span. He more than made up for it over the next 12 months by defending his title 7x which is probably also why we point Folley and Williams fights as being the best example of Ali. The activity meant he was extremely sharp.

The only interesting things are during the years he was exiled. An earlier Frazier fight without the layoff would have been interesting. He still fights the same guys that he fought anyway only earlier. Outside of Frazier the results are going to be the same.
oogiebe
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Re: Ali and the Heavyweights: What Would You Love to See that Didn't Happened?

Post by oogiebe »

I would have loved to have seen how he would have been had he not been out of boxing those 3 1/2 years. How much greater could he have gotten had it not been for the layoff. Can't even imagine.
tiny_acres
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Re: Ali and the Heavyweights: What Would You Love to See that Didn't Happened?

Post by tiny_acres »

oogiebe wrote: 14 Feb 2023, 22:26 I would have loved to have seen how he would have been had he not been out of boxing those 3 1/2 years. How much greater could he have gotten had it not been for the layoff. Can't even imagine.
He would of beaten Frazier and Foreman before retiring way earlier than he did
DrDuke
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Re: Ali and the Heavyweights: What Would You Love to See that Didn't Happened?

Post by DrDuke »

oogiebe wrote: 14 Feb 2023, 22:26 I would have loved to have seen how he would have been had he not been out of boxing those 3 1/2 years. How much greater could he have gotten had it not been for the layoff. Can't even imagine.
He would have lost to Frazier, but probably won the rematch earlier, than Foreman become a contender. This way his bout against Foreman could have a different context to what it had been in reality. The Frazier trilogy would probably have ended like it was. It would be tougher for Norton to get a shot, but if he did, he would win
writehooks
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Re: Ali and the Heavyweights: What Would You Love to See that Didn't Happened?

Post by writehooks »

On Sept. 24, 1963, Ali (then known as Cassius Clay) signed a letter of intent with Louisville promoter Bill King to fight the winner of the bout between George Chuvalo and Mike DeJohn, which took place three nights later. Chuvalo and DeJohn both signed a similar agreement on the morning of their fight, which Chuvalo won by majority decision -- with Ali watching from ringside. The lead story in the sports section of the Sept. 28 Louisville Courier was headlined "Cassius Refuses to Fight Chuvalo", and included this quote from Clay: "I changed my mind because I don't like the way Chuvalo fights. He can cut you. He butts and does everything else dirty. He's rough and dirty and fights like an old washerwoman."
Besides coining another colorful nickname for an opponent, Clay's response had a hint of genuine trepidation about facing the granite-jawed Canadian brawler in a fight that would have taken place on Nov. 8 in Miami.
On March 29, 1966 Chuvalo became the first fighter to go the 15-round limit with Ali when they finally squared off in Toronto ... but I can't help wondering what might have happened if they'd met three years earlier.
gilgamesh
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Re: Ali and the Heavyweights: What Would You Love to See that Didn't Happened?

Post by gilgamesh »

Obviously I'd love to know what would've happened during those years when he was stripped of his title if he hadn't been, but if he hadn't been stripped of his title he wouldn't be the Legend he is today.

Standing up for what he believes in even though it costs him is a huge part of what made his legacy what it is, and makes him bigger than just an Athlete.

The big fight that didn't happen is against Teofilo Stevenson.

If they had done that in 1976 or 77, it would've been a big fight even if it was Teofilo's 1st Pro Fight.

That's really the only name of his era that he didn't fight, and obviously circumstances there put it beyond his control.
elmersalsa
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Re: Ali and the Heavyweights: What Would You Love to See that Didn't Happened?

Post by elmersalsa »

In Ali's era, I would like to see a fight between the greats Larry Holmes and George Foreman.

I would have love to see a title bout between Ali and Holmes circa 1976-78.

And we also missed a Joe Frazier vs Ken Norton bout.

I also would have love to see Jerry Quarry as world heavyweight champion, or at least win a piece of it. It would have bring lots of ticket sales being Quarry as champion fighting the likes like Frazier, or Ali.

Ah, and I would have love to see a Jerry Quarry vs George Foreman and Foreman vs Earnie Shavers fights.
keithmoonhangover
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Re: Ali and the Heavyweights: What Would You Love to See that Didn't Happened?

Post by keithmoonhangover »

If Ali hadn't missed his peak, he would have fought Frazier in 1968 and Joe would have been comprehensively beaten.
oogiebe
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Re: Ali and the Heavyweights: What Would You Love to See that Didn't Happened?

Post by oogiebe »

DrDuke wrote: 14 Feb 2023, 23:21
oogiebe wrote: 14 Feb 2023, 22:26 I would have loved to have seen how he would have been had he not been out of boxing those 3 1/2 years. How much greater could he have gotten had it not been for the layoff. Can't even imagine.
He would have lost to Frazier, but probably won the rematch earlier, than Foreman become a contender. This way his bout against Foreman could have a different context to what it had been in reality. The Frazier trilogy would probably have ended like it was. It would be tougher for Norton to get a shot, but if he did, he would win
He would have beaten Joe. Cleaned out the division and retired in 1974/75 the latest.
DrDuke
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Re: Ali and the Heavyweights: What Would You Love to See that Didn't Happened?

Post by DrDuke »

oogiebe wrote: 15 Feb 2023, 17:24
DrDuke wrote: 14 Feb 2023, 23:21
oogiebe wrote: 14 Feb 2023, 22:26 I would have loved to have seen how he would have been had he not been out of boxing those 3 1/2 years. How much greater could he have gotten had it not been for the layoff. Can't even imagine.
He would have lost to Frazier, but probably won the rematch earlier, than Foreman become a contender. This way his bout against Foreman could have a different context to what it had been in reality. The Frazier trilogy would probably have ended like it was. It would be tougher for Norton to get a shot, but if he did, he would win
He would have beaten Joe. Cleaned out the division and retired in 1974/75 the latest.
Nah.
oogiebe
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Re: Ali and the Heavyweights: What Would You Love to See that Didn't Happened?

Post by oogiebe »

DrDuke wrote: 15 Feb 2023, 20:37
oogiebe wrote: 15 Feb 2023, 17:24
DrDuke wrote: 14 Feb 2023, 23:21

He would have lost to Frazier, but probably won the rematch earlier, than Foreman become a contender. This way his bout against Foreman could have a different context to what it had been in reality. The Frazier trilogy would probably have ended like it was. It would be tougher for Norton to get a shot, but if he did, he would win
He would have beaten Joe. Cleaned out the division and retired in 1974/75 the latest.
Nah.
Great retort.
DrDuke
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Re: Ali and the Heavyweights: What Would You Love to See that Didn't Happened?

Post by DrDuke »

oogiebe wrote: 15 Feb 2023, 20:39
DrDuke wrote: 15 Feb 2023, 20:37
oogiebe wrote: 15 Feb 2023, 17:24
He would have beaten Joe. Cleaned out the division and retired in 1974/75 the latest.
Nah.
Great retort.
Yeah.
oogiebe
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Re: Ali and the Heavyweights: What Would You Love to See that Didn't Happened?

Post by oogiebe »

DrDuke wrote: 15 Feb 2023, 20:41
oogiebe wrote: 15 Feb 2023, 20:39
DrDuke wrote: 15 Feb 2023, 20:37

Nah.
Great retort.
Yeah.
:lol:
DrDuke
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Re: Ali and the Heavyweights: What Would You Love to See that Didn't Happened?

Post by DrDuke »

oogiebe wrote: 15 Feb 2023, 20:41
DrDuke wrote: 15 Feb 2023, 20:41
oogiebe wrote: 15 Feb 2023, 20:39
Great retort.
Yeah.
:lol:
:D
goose 5
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Re: Ali and the Heavyweights: What Would You Love to See that Didn't Happened?

Post by goose 5 »

A Jimmy Young rematch circa 1977.
elmersalsa
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Re: Ali and the Heavyweights: What Would You Love to See that Didn't Happened?

Post by elmersalsa »

How about a rematch with Big George? This time the fight is in New York City or Las Vegas.
DavidKehler
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Re: Ali and the Heavyweights: What Would You Love to See that Didn't Happened?

Post by DavidKehler »

I would have loved to have seen correct scoring in his bout with Doug Jones.
hhaehre
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Re: Ali and the Heavyweights: What Would You Love to See that Didn't Happened?

Post by hhaehre »

The elephant in the room, Wilt.
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Re: Ali and the Heavyweights: What Would You Love to See that Didn't Happened?

Post by hhaehre »

keithmoonhangover wrote: 15 Feb 2023, 14:07 If Ali hadn't missed his peak, he would have fought Frazier in 1968 and Joe would have been comprehensively beaten.
He might have won, but at no point in history does he beat Frazier comprehensively. The same goes for Norton, who clearly had his number.
keithmoonhangover
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Re: Ali and the Heavyweights: What Would You Love to See that Didn't Happened?

Post by keithmoonhangover »

hhaehre wrote: 20 Feb 2023, 05:16
keithmoonhangover wrote: 15 Feb 2023, 14:07 If Ali hadn't missed his peak, he would have fought Frazier in 1968 and Joe would have been comprehensively beaten.
He might have won, but at no point in history does he beat Frazier comprehensively. The same goes for Norton, who clearly had his number.
Frazier in 68 was raw, but nowhere near his best IMO. Ali would have been faster and more accurate.
DrDuke
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Re: Ali and the Heavyweights: What Would You Love to See that Didn't Happened?

Post by DrDuke »

keithmoonhangover wrote: 20 Feb 2023, 07:47
hhaehre wrote: 20 Feb 2023, 05:16
keithmoonhangover wrote: 15 Feb 2023, 14:07 If Ali hadn't missed his peak, he would have fought Frazier in 1968 and Joe would have been comprehensively beaten.
He might have won, but at no point in history does he beat Frazier comprehensively. The same goes for Norton, who clearly had his number.
Frazier in 68 was raw, but nowhere near his best IMO. Ali would have been faster and more accurate.
Frazier in 68 was at peak, that's the year when he won the championship against Mathis and won the rematch against Bonavena in a one-sided fashion. Ali would lose to him just like he did later in reality.
keithmoonhangover
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Re: Ali and the Heavyweights: What Would You Love to See that Didn't Happened?

Post by keithmoonhangover »

DrDuke wrote: 20 Feb 2023, 08:02
keithmoonhangover wrote: 20 Feb 2023, 07:47
hhaehre wrote: 20 Feb 2023, 05:16
He might have won, but at no point in history does he beat Frazier comprehensively. The same goes for Norton, who clearly had his number.
Frazier in 68 was raw, but nowhere near his best IMO. Ali would have been faster and more accurate.
Frazier in 68 was at peak, that's the year when he won the championship against Mathis and won the rematch against Bonavena in a one-sided fashion. Ali would lose to him just like he did later in reality.
Which one of them dropped him twice? Bonavena?
DrDuke
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Re: Ali and the Heavyweights: What Would You Love to See that Didn't Happened?

Post by DrDuke »

keithmoonhangover wrote: 20 Feb 2023, 08:31
DrDuke wrote: 20 Feb 2023, 08:02
keithmoonhangover wrote: 20 Feb 2023, 07:47

Frazier in 68 was raw, but nowhere near his best IMO. Ali would have been faster and more accurate.
Frazier in 68 was at peak, that's the year when he won the championship against Mathis and won the rematch against Bonavena in a one-sided fashion. Ali would lose to him just like he did later in reality.
Which one of them dropped him twice? Bonavena?
Neither. Bonavena did that in 66 in their first bout, not in the rematch of 68.
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