Who Are Your #1 and #2 Heavyweights Of All Time?

[keithmoonhangover]

Who ya got?

For me it's......

1. Ali
2. Louis

[DrDuke]

1. Lewis
2. Holyfield

[keithmoonhangover]

1. Lewis
2. Holyfield

Sorry, I didn't explain myself properly. I meant the two best heavyweight boxers ever. Again, apologies.

[tiny_acres]

1. Lewis
2. Holyfield

Sorry, I didn't explain myself properly. I meant the two best heavyweight boxers ever. Again, apologies.

[margaret thatcher]

1. wladimir klitschko
2. vitali klitschko
3. tyson fury
4. olek usyk
5. anthony joshua


but seriously.................if we are talking accomplishments, or even accomplishments + ability at 50/50.........it's hands down ali for me. some people rate louis as #1 but i dont see his argument over ali

that said, if we go purely on head to head potential, i think the rankings end up looking arguably a lot different than the standard hw atg lists we see

[DrDuke]

1. Lewis
2. Holyfield

Sorry, I didn't explain myself properly. I meant the two best heavyweight boxers ever. Again, apologies.

The banal perception got shattered?

[margaret thatcher]

i would not be remotely surprised if lewis and holy beat joe louis (and all/pretty much all his challengers). at minimum they'd be very very competitive

ali and louis are often grouped together, and no doubt joe's a legend, but other than joe's activity level im much more impressed by ali's career and also think he was the better fighter

[keithmoonhangover]

i would not be remotely surprised if lewis and holy beat joe louis (and all/pretty much all his challengers). at minimum they'd be very very competitive

ali and louis are often grouped together, and no doubt joe's a legend, but other than joe's activity level im much more impressed by ali's career and also think he was the better fighter

If Joe Louis had access to the same PEDs that Holyfield did, he would be a completely different proposition.

Ranking wise, do you have Ali #1, Louis #2?

[margaret thatcher]

you could be right, but i take them for what they actually were

i have ali #1, from there it gets less clear for me and there's a few different possibilities, i do think louis is a bit overrated

[keithmoonhangover]

1. Lewis
2. Holyfield

Sorry, I didn't explain myself properly. I meant the two best heavyweight boxers ever. Again, apologies.

The banal perception got shattered?

No, there's nothing banal about rating Ali and Louis as the top two. I'm not trying to conform, I just happen to agree with a lot of other people.

[keithmoonhangover]

you could be right, but i take them for what they actually were

i have ali #1, from there it gets less clear for me and there's a few different possibilities, i do think louis is a bit overrated

Who do you have in mind for the second spot?

[margaret thatcher]

could be the likes of foreman, louis, lewis, holmes if we're talking about how these guys would actually fare vs one another. ive seen nothing from louis to suggest the others werent in his league. i think tyson and some others would have a real chance of beating him too, though they wouldnt fare well enough vs the others to be a serious #2 contender

i do agree with consensus that ali was #1, but not nearly as much about louis being top 2. he was vulnerable to some pretty unimpressive opponents even past his earliest years and for a legend im not so impressed with his level of wins

[funso banjo baby]

1. Ali
2. Louis


Seems reasonable

[SteveO]

1. Muhammad Ali (by a mile)
2. Joe Louis

[gilgamesh]

If this were a courtroom anybody who didn't have Ali and Joe Louis as their #1 and #2 respectively would not be able to form a winning case.

[margaret thatcher]

the gap between ali and louis is greater than the gap between louis and the other leading guys

[gilgamesh]

the gap between ali and louis is greater than the gap between louis and the other leading guys

Yeah I'd agree, but as long as Joe Louis holds the all time title defense record his standing won't be easily surpassed.

[Ezzard]

All just depends on your criteria.

I remember The Ring having Ali and Johnson as 1 and 2 at some point in the 1980s. I also remember an issue in which they thought Holmes was #2. He would be too big for the old-timers and only Ali would beat him.

[HomicideHenry]

1. Larry Holmes
2. Muhammad Ali

In my opinion everything that Muhammad Ali could do Larry Holmes did it better. He had a far better jab than Muhammad Ali did. He actually could box and punch. Larry also didn't do a lot of unnecessary movements like Muhammad Ali did, bouncing around the ring he could stand in the middle of the ring like Jack Johnson and control the action. Larry Holmes couldn't be psyched out, so I know none of Muhammad Ali's mind games wouldn't have worked against Larry. Larry Holmes was in my mind more dedicated than Muhammad Ali because his work schedule was greater than Muhammad Ali's.

The only knock against Larry Holmes was that there was not that many good or great challengers in his time, but he beat Earnie Shavers twice as well as Ken Norton and he defeated future champions Mike Weaver and Bonecrusher Smith and Trevor Berbick. I have little doubt in my mind he could have fought and defeated the same men that Muhammad Ali did like Frazier and Foreman.

[DrDuke]

I'd put our Muh at 3, after Lenny and Holy.

Holmes falls shorts for me here, although he surpasses Louis, I agree on Louis being overrated.

[Ambling Alp II]

Who ya got?

For me it's......

1. Ali
2. Louis

Agreed. Not even arguable. #3 to about #10 is where it gets interesting with a lot of close calls.

[gilgamesh]

I'd put our Muh at 3, after Lenny and Holy.

Holmes falls shorts for me here, although he surpasses Louis, I agree on Louis being overrated.

If you wanted to have Lennox Lewis at #2 behind Ali I could actually see that. Putting Lennox and Holyfield above Ali though is just...like I said you couldn't win a court case if you were trying to defend this opinion.

[gilgamesh]

1. Larry Holmes
2. Muhammad Ali

In my opinion everything that Muhammad Ali could do Larry Holmes did it better. He had a far better jab than Muhammad Ali did. He actually could box and punch. Larry also didn't do a lot of unnecessary movements like Muhammad Ali did, bouncing around the ring he could stand in the middle of the ring like Jack Johnson and control the action. Larry Holmes couldn't be psyched out, so I know none of Muhammad Ali's mind games wouldn't have worked against Larry. Larry Holmes was in my mind more dedicated than Muhammad Ali because his work schedule was greater than Muhammad Ali's.

The only knock against Larry Holmes was that there was not that many good or great challengers in his time, but he beat Earnie Shavers twice as well as Ken Norton and he defeated future champions Mike Weaver and Bonecrusher Smith and Trevor Berbick. I have little doubt in my mind he could have fought and defeated the same men that Muhammad Ali did like Frazier and Foreman.

Larry Holmes didn't beat Frazier, Liston or Foreman though did he? That's 3 guys who are Top 10 Heavyweights right there Ali beat them.

Nothing Holmes ever did can eclipse that.

I do personally have Holmes at #3, and I do think he had the ability to be as accomplished as Ali. He just didn't have the opposition.

[DrDuke]

I'd put our Muh at 3, after Lenny and Holy.

Holmes falls shorts for me here, although he surpasses Louis, I agree on Louis being overrated.

If you wanted to have Lennox Lewis at #2 behind Ali I could actually see that. Putting Lennox and Holyfield above Ali though is just...like I said you couldn't win a court case if you were trying to defend this opinion.

True, courts have often been corrupt and far from the reason, just like those stereotyped opinions.

[gilgamesh]

I'd put our Muh at 3, after Lenny and Holy.

Holmes falls shorts for me here, although he surpasses Louis, I agree on Louis being overrated.

If you wanted to have Lennox Lewis at #2 behind Ali I could actually see that. Putting Lennox and Holyfield above Ali though is just...like I said you couldn't win a court case if you were trying to defend this opinion.

True, courts have often been corrupt and far from the reason, just like those stereotyped opinions.

Having Ali isn't a stereotype, you just can't find a Heavyweight with a better record. Nobody can. Like you and I'm sure a lot of Boxing fans I get annoyed with the way all the Classic Boxing programming revolves around Ali, and all that sh*t, but he's considered the #1 Heavyweight generally speaking for good reason, and deservedly so.

Lennox Lewis doesn't have any wins as big as Foreman, Liston or Frazier. He just doesn't.

I do consider Lennox to be #4 all time though, and his quality of opposition is 2nd only to Ali's as far as Heavyweight Champions go.