BoxRec

Obviously I'm blatantly biased about my favourite boxer of all time, so I'll start us off with Stanley Ketchel 1908 when he fought.

Mike Twin Sullivan
Jack Twin Sullivan
Billy Papke
Hugo Kelly
Joe Thomas
Billy Papke (lost due to blatant cheating)
Billy Papke

Who ya got?

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑10 Mar 2023, 07:11 Obviously I'm blatantly biased about my favourite boxer of all time, so I'll start us off with Stanley Ketchel 1908 when he fought.

You can call a boxer, whom you barely was able to watch, your favorite?

Greb will win as he probably had the best year of any boxer ever,

DrDuke wrote: ↑10 Mar 2023, 07:25

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑10 Mar 2023, 07:11 Obviously I'm blatantly biased about my favourite boxer of all time, so I'll start us off with Stanley Ketchel 1908 when he fought.

You can call a boxer, whom you barely was able to watch, your favorite?

I just did.

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑10 Mar 2023, 08:11

DrDuke wrote: ↑10 Mar 2023, 07:25

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑10 Mar 2023, 07:11 Obviously I'm blatantly biased about my favourite boxer of all time, so I'll start us off with Stanley Ketchel 1908 when he fought.

You can call a boxer, whom you barely was able to watch, your favorite?

I just did.

Strange stuff. Basically, you become a boxer fan after you watch him. Of course, you can admire a person about who you read, but to call a fav boxer a one with amost no footage is strange.

DrDuke wrote: ↑10 Mar 2023, 10:24

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑10 Mar 2023, 08:11

DrDuke wrote: ↑10 Mar 2023, 07:25

You can call a boxer, whom you barely was able to watch, your favorite?

I just did.

Strange stuff. Basically, you become a boxer fan after you watch him. Of course, you can admire a person about who you read, but to call a fav boxer a one with amost no footage is strange.

You're making an assumption. I didn't become a boxing fan after I watched him.

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑10 Mar 2023, 07:11 Obviously I'm blatantly biased about my favourite boxer of all time, so I'll start us off with Stanley Ketchel 1908 when he fought.

Mike Twin Sullivan
Jack Twin Sullivan
Billy Papke
Hugo Kelly
Joe Thomas
Billy Papke (lost due to blatant cheating)
Billy Papke

Who ya got?

Lost due to blatant cheating? I assume you are referring to the debunked myth that Ketchel was hit on the handshake before the fight. That never happened. In fact theres more evidence that he hit Papke on the handshake in their first fight.

klompton wrote: ↑10 Mar 2023, 10:47

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑10 Mar 2023, 07:11 Obviously I'm blatantly biased about my favourite boxer of all time, so I'll start us off with Stanley Ketchel 1908 when he fought.

Mike Twin Sullivan
Jack Twin Sullivan
Billy Papke
Hugo Kelly
Joe Thomas
Billy Papke (lost due to blatant cheating)
Billy Papke

Who ya got?

Lost due to blatant cheating? I assume you are referring to the debunked myth that Ketchel was hit on the handshake before the fight. That never happened. In fact theres more evidence that he hit Papke on the handshake in their first fight.

I've read the alleged debunking, but I'll stick with what actually happened.

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑10 Mar 2023, 10:48

klompton wrote: ↑10 Mar 2023, 10:47

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑10 Mar 2023, 07:11 Obviously I'm blatantly biased about my favourite boxer of all time, so I'll start us off with Stanley Ketchel 1908 when he fought.

Mike Twin Sullivan
Jack Twin Sullivan
Billy Papke
Hugo Kelly
Joe Thomas
Billy Papke (lost due to blatant cheating)
Billy Papke

Who ya got?

Lost due to blatant cheating? I assume you are referring to the debunked myth that Ketchel was hit on the handshake before the fight. That never happened. In fact theres more evidence that he hit Papke on the handshake in their first fight.

I've read the alleged debunking, but I'll stick with what actually happened.

Ok, fair enough, then post us the first hand newspaper accounts describing the fight in detail. Its obvious you havent read them so it would be instructive for you.

klompton wrote: ↑10 Mar 2023, 11:13

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑10 Mar 2023, 10:48

klompton wrote: ↑10 Mar 2023, 10:47


Lost due to blatant cheating? I assume you are referring to the debunked myth that Ketchel was hit on the handshake before the fight. That never happened. In fact theres more evidence that he hit Papke on the handshake in their first fight.

I've read the alleged debunking, but I'll stick with what actually happened.

Ok, fair enough, then post us the first hand newspaper accounts describing the fight in detail. Its obvious you havent read them so it would be instructive for you.

I heard someone who was at the fight describe what happened.

i heard someone who was at the fight describe it differently

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑10 Mar 2023, 13:33

klompton wrote: ↑10 Mar 2023, 11:13

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑10 Mar 2023, 10:48

I've read the alleged debunking, but I'll stick with what actually happened.

Ok, fair enough, then post us the first hand newspaper accounts describing the fight in detail. Its obvious you havent read them so it would be instructive for you.

I heard someone who was at the fight describe what happened.

Then youll have no problem
Posting it.

klompton wrote: ↑10 Mar 2023, 14:24

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑10 Mar 2023, 13:33

klompton wrote: ↑10 Mar 2023, 11:13


Ok, fair enough, then post us the first hand newspaper accounts describing the fight in detail. Its obvious you havent read them so it would be instructive for you.

I heard someone who was at the fight describe what happened.

Then youll have no problem
Posting it.

OK. Ketchel went to shake hands, Papke slammed him in the face and the rest is history.

No, not your version of events. Post the actual ringside report which says Papke hit Ketchel on the break. You cant because it didnt happen. No ringside account says that. In fact Papke accused Ketchel of doing just that BEFORE their second fight, which is the fight that myth holds Papke doing that.

This is over a month before their first fight:



This is a first hand account of the fight you say Papke cheated and hit Ketchel when they went to shake hands before the bout:


Here is another:



Notice who landed the first blow.

At least you admit ahead of time you are biased in favor of Ketchel but not being able to accept reality is sad.

probably Jake LaMotta,in the year going into winning the middleweight title.

Rocky Graziano fought some good fighters going into a title bout too ( from what I remember reading ).

(2010)Sergio Martínez beating Pavlik comfortably and then highlight reel KO’ing Paul Williams in the second round of their rematch, when people were expecting it to be closely contested like their first fight, has to be up there. Also (2001)B-Hop unifying with Keith Holmes and then beating up Tito when everybody had taken for granted that Tito would eat him alive.

Looking through Monzon’s resume he has like 3 or 4 different years that would qualify here.

klompton wrote: ↑10 Mar 2023, 15:25 No, not your version of events. Post the actual ringside report which says Papke hit Ketchel on the break. You cant because it didnt happen. No ringside account says that. In fact Papke accused Ketchel of doing just that BEFORE their second fight, which is the fight that myth holds Papke doing that.

It's not my version. I heard someone who was at the fight describe what happened. As in heard, not written.

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑11 Mar 2023, 10:18

klompton wrote: ↑10 Mar 2023, 15:25 No, not your version of events. Post the actual ringside report which says Papke hit Ketchel on the break. You cant because it didnt happen. No ringside account says that. In fact Papke accused Ketchel of doing just that BEFORE their second fight, which is the fight that myth holds Papke doing that.

It's not my version. I heard someone who was at the fight describe what happened. As in heard, not written.

LOL. In your dreams. Awfully convenient for a guy who admits hes biased and cant accept the facts over the fiction.

klompton wrote: ↑11 Mar 2023, 11:29

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑11 Mar 2023, 10:18

klompton wrote: ↑10 Mar 2023, 15:25 No, not your version of events. Post the actual ringside report which says Papke hit Ketchel on the break. You cant because it didnt happen. No ringside account says that. In fact Papke accused Ketchel of doing just that BEFORE their second fight, which is the fight that myth holds Papke doing that.

It's not my version. I heard someone who was at the fight describe what happened. As in heard, not written.

LOL. In your dreams. Awfully convenient for a guy who admits hes biased and cant accept the facts over the fiction.

Nat Fleischer was also at the fight and wrote about it in his book on Ketchel.

Fleischer was not at Ketchel-Papke

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑11 Mar 2023, 11:35

klompton wrote: ↑11 Mar 2023, 11:29

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑11 Mar 2023, 10:18

It's not my version. I heard someone who was at the fight describe what happened. As in heard, not written.

LOL. In your dreams. Awfully convenient for a guy who admits hes biased and cant accept the facts over the fiction.

Nat Fleischer was also at the fight and wrote about it in his book on Ketchel.

In fact in Fleischers autobiography "50 Years at Ringside" on page 69 in the chapter on Ketchel he says specifically: "Unfortunately I didnt see him when he fought his memorable battles with Billy Papke and Joe Thomas." And why would he have? He was 20 years old, had just graduated college, was living almost 3000 miles away, and was teaching school when the second Billy Papke Stanley Ketchel fight took place.

Wanna make anything else up?

Wow, talk about losing credibility.

keithmoonhangover wrote: ↑10 Mar 2023, 07:11 Obviously I'm blatantly biased about my favourite boxer of all time, so I'll start us off with Stanley Ketchel 1908 when he fought.

Mike Twin Sullivan
Jack Twin Sullivan
Billy Papke
Hugo Kelly
Joe Thomas
Billy Papke (lost due to blatant cheating)
Billy Papke

Who ya got?

Very difficult to top that for sure.

But I think we may have to look to non-champions potentially for the answer to this remedy. For example Sam Langford's 1910 had (in part) wins over Stanley Ketchell, Fireman Jim Flynn, Dixie Kid, Joe Jennette, Jeff Clark and Jim Johnson. Langford and Ketchell agreed to be no more than 165 for their fight.

Or perhaps one can look at Archie Moore or Billy Conn, both of which never won the middle weight title but were considered to be 2 of the best middleweights ever. Or even look at the career of somebody like Harry Greb, is that even before winning the middleweight championship he was already blowing through tons of great people.