BoxRec

I think a 32 y/o GGG would've beaten clearly this version of Canelo.

Indeed Ryder was tough and he had a lot of grit but also I saw a lazy flat-footed Canelo that he wasn't using very much/effective his jab, his footwork , feints and his waist-ducking-punches movement against Ryder who is a non-puncher T-Rex arms fighter. Canelo ate some leather too like he was blocking punches with his face.

Probably Canelo was trying to carry him for 12 rounds to work more and also give the mexican fans a good mexican-style-JCC boxing match, who knows?

If Canelo would fight like that in the rematch vs Bivol then I think Bivol would stop Canelo or pizza face him badly.

apollo creed wrote: ↑07 May 2023, 06:50 I think a 32 y/o GGG would've beaten clearly this version of Canelo.

Indeed Ryder was tough and he had a lot of grit but also I saw a lazy flat-footed Canelo that he wasn't using very much/effective his jab, his footwork , feints and his waist-ducking-punches movement against Ryder who is a non-puncher T-Rex arms fighter. Canelo ate some leather too like he was blocking punches with his face.

Probably Canelo was trying to carry him for 12 rounds to work more and also give the mexican fans a good mexican-style-JCC boxing match, who knows?

If Canelo would fight like that in the rematch vs Bivol then I think Bivol would stop Canelo or pizza face him badly.

Same here, GGG is an under rated modern all time great.

pound per pound wrote: ↑07 May 2023, 07:00

apollo creed wrote: ↑07 May 2023, 06:50 I think a 32 y/o GGG would've beaten clearly this version of Canelo.

Indeed Ryder was tough and he had a lot of grit but also I saw a lazy flat-footed Canelo that he wasn't using very much/effective his jab, his footwork , feints and his waist-ducking-punches movement against Ryder who is a non-puncher T-Rex arms fighter. Canelo ate some leather too like he was blocking punches with his face.

Probably Canelo was trying to carry him for 12 rounds to work more and also give the mexican fans a good mexican-style-JCC boxing match, who knows?

If Canelo would fight like that in the rematch vs Bivol then I think Bivol would stop Canelo or pizza face him badly.

Same here, GGG is an under rated modern all time great.

G was a very tough-strong fighter. I didn't hear about G being injured or looking for some other excuses, etc.

It was a very serious reason that he was so avoided until he was 34-35 y/o. and even after he was tough as hell.

Sturm, Martinez, Quillin, JJC jr, Cotto and Canelo avoided GGG back in the days.

GGG, yes he was a fantastic fighter. Cut a swathe through the middleweights in his prime and did it with aplomb.

Noxy wrote: ↑07 May 2023, 08:51 GGG, yes he was a fantastic fighter. Cut a swathe through the middleweights in his prime and did it with aplomb.

GGG was so adamant and impressive about getting those two big belts in boxing like wbc and wba bc he knew that holding those belts it will increase his chances to land the big fights and he succeeded.

At that time top fighters like Martinez, JJCjr, Cotto and Canelo were holding the wbc mw title , so G knew that he must get that title. GGG was mandatory challenger for Cotto and Canelo back then but he could not get a fight with them at that time bc of business and politics. Canelo also dropped that belt too.

Same thing with the super WBA mw title when G was mandatory for many years to Sturm and then Geale (who was stripped) and finally fought G in 2014 for that title.

G was very avoided but he also had a tough road until he got 34-35 y/o and even after that he was a tough-strong fighter. Canelo was 26-27 y/o when he fought G for the first time.

I just ran a prime v prime fight between them 10 times, using the whole numbers-and-stats system I'm dorkfully compiled.
1. Canelo by SD
2. GGG by MD
3. GGG by UD
4. GGG by UD
5. SD Draw
6. GGG by SD
7. SD Draw
8. GGG by KO 10
9. GGG by KO 5
10. Canelo by SD

GGG was avoided like a disease in his prime and for good reason and I included Canelo in that.

After what we saw on Saturday it's pretty obvious that even a 35 year old GGG beats a 32 year old Canelo.

Or any version of Canelo.

A 32 year old GGG knocks out any version of Canelo.

Canelo said about Benavidez "They said the same about GGG." that is that he would be his hardest fight. I thought that was a very bad example as GGG presented an enormous obstacle for Canelo back in the day.

32/32 is the number, because 30/30 would be a whole lot different, and yet I would still favour GGG.
My biggest question is would GGG stop Canelo at 32/32?

No version of GGG would stop 32 y old Alvarez. Stop with this BS folks. GGG beat him clearly in first fight but was nowhere close to stop him or hurt him. Canelo make adjustments and handled GGG close loss in rematch. And probably none of us take third fight seriously.

- Yo, I may not be able to fix stupid, so lets have some fun and compare undefeated 21 yr old Canelo, 5-0, 3KO in WBC superwelter title fights where he rehydrates to around 175 lbs then. Included in the victims, Magic Hatton whom he stole from TBE TUE, HOFer Shane Mosely and former Champ Kermit Cintron,

Now compare to 21 yr old Gennedy whom I exalt as one of the finest Middleweights ever competitive with the best.

Hmmm, regional gold medalist with a 5-0, 2 KO record for the tourney.

2003 Middleweight Gold Medalist at the World Championships in Bangkok, Thailand. Results were:
Defeated Matvey Korobov (Russia) PTS (19-10)
Defeated Andy Lee (Ireland) PTS (29-9)
Defeated Lucian Bute (Romania) KO 4
Defeated Yordanis Despaigne (Cuba) PTS (29-26)
Defeated Oleg Mashkin (Ukraine) RSCI-2

Canelo fought Gennedy 3x, exactly 3x more than any other fighter, and any accusation of Canelo ducking is just stupid stuff I can't fix since Gennedy generated some of the delays.

Ofhand seems the OP and a few willing moldable soft clay fans can't properly follow a timeline that boxrec provides.

How about when 15 yr old Canelo was turning pro? Pray tell us all ye Gennedy 'spurts what he was doing age 15 when Canelo was fighting growed men?

Cent0089 wrote: ↑10 May 2023, 09:55 No version of GGG would stop 32 y old Alvarez. Stop with this BS folks. GGG beat him clearly in first fight but was nowhere close to stop him or hurt him. Canelo make adjustments and handled GGG close loss in rematch. And probably none of us take third fight seriously.

Since a 35 year old GGG gave a 27 year old peak Canelo his toughest fight it's fair to expect a 32 year old GGG to do a lot better against any other version.

At 32 GGG was dismantling world class middleweights with ease.

Everything he did, he had to do the hard way, as the outsider and usually on the road.

Perhaps the only fortunate incident for GGG was the cancellation of the Pirog fight due to the latters back injury?

Perhaps not.

Beating guys like willie monroe and curtis stevens prove how great ggg really was.

Redback Rasta wrote: ↑08 May 2023, 22:48 GGG was avoided like a disease in his prime and for good reason and I included Canelo in that.

true

GGG was mandatory challenger for sturm, cotto and then canelo back then when G was not so old but they were avoiding him like plague.

Thomastearns wrote: ↑09 May 2023, 14:22 After what we saw on Saturday it's pretty obvious that even a 35 year old GGG beats a 32 year old Canelo.

Or any version of Canelo.

A 32 year old GGG knocks out any version of Canelo.

true, so it was an obvious reson why a young Canelo waited so much and then vacated his mw wbc title to not fight GGG back then, until GGG was 34-35 y/o.

The Asleep Lamps wrote: ↑09 May 2023, 15:18 Canelo said about Benavidez "They said the same about GGG." that is that he would be his hardest fight. I thought that was a very bad example as GGG presented an enormous obstacle for Canelo back in the day.

True , and at that time when they fought for the first time, Canelo was 26 y/o and G was 34-35 y/o and G still beat a prime-young Canelo first time and then G gave Canelo a tough-close fight in the rematch. Actually I think G did better in rematch.

apollo creed wrote: ↑11 May 2023, 13:07

The Asleep Lamps wrote: ↑09 May 2023, 15:18 Canelo said about Benavidez "They said the same about GGG." that is that he would be his hardest fight. I thought that was a very bad example as GGG presented an enormous obstacle for Canelo back in the day.

True , and at that time when they fought for the first time, Canelo was 26 y/o and G was 34-35 y/o and G still beat a prime-young Canelo first time and then G gave Canelo a tough-close fight in the rematch. Actually I think G did better in rematch.

He won the first 2 fights.

The 1st fight is absolutely undeniable.

The 2nd fight, because Canelo did better in some parts people wanna pretend like he has a case for winning. He doesn't. He lost again clearly.

The 3rd time with his Tag Team partner Father Time, Canelo finally got a legitimate W.

I can see this is gonna be a subject you consistently come back to for a long time

BroughtonRulesRefuge wrote: ↑10 May 2023, 10:41 - Yo, I may not be able to fix stupid, so lets have some fun and compare undefeated 21 yr old Canelo, 5-0, 3KO in WBC superwelter title fights where he rehydrates to around 175 lbs then. Included in the victims, Magic Hatton whom he stole from TBE TUE, HOFer Shane Mosely and former Champ Kermit Cintron,

Now compare to 21 yr old Gennedy whom I exalt as one of the finest Middleweights ever competitive with the best.

Hmmm, regional gold medalist with a 5-0, 2 KO record for the tourney.

2003 Middleweight Gold Medalist at the World Championships in Bangkok, Thailand. Results were:
Defeated Matvey Korobov (Russia) PTS (19-10)
Defeated Andy Lee (Ireland) PTS (29-9)
Defeated Lucian Bute (Romania) KO 4
Defeated Yordanis Despaigne (Cuba) PTS (29-26)
Defeated Oleg Mashkin (Ukraine) RSCI-2

Canelo fought Gennedy 3x, exactly 3x more than any other fighter, and any accusation of Canelo ducking is just stupid stuff I can't fix since Gennedy generated some of the delays.

Ofhand seems the OP and a few willing moldable soft clay fans can't properly follow a timeline that boxrec provides.

How about when 15 yr old Canelo was turning pro? Pray tell us all ye Gennedy 'spurts what he was doing age 15 when Canelo was fighting growed men?

Nope!

GGG was mandatory challenger for Cotto's wbc mw lineal title and because of politics and business, wbc agreed (of course lol) that Cotto to defend his mw wbc title against Canelo at 155 c/w lol but then the winner had to fight the mandatory challenger i.e Golovkin. After Canelo won that mw title form Cotto then Canelo fought chiny-washed up welter Khan, Liam Beefy Smith and washed up JCCjr and then he vacated that mw wbc title and he threw out some excuses.
GGG should've fought Cotto at that time and if Cotto didn't want then he should've got stripped of that title but wbc granted Cotto to fight Canelo at 155 c/w for that wbc mw title.

“If the WBC is the one to determine who they think I should face then I’ll simply save myself the 3% and just fight and do what I want,” Cotto said to spam. “I will do what I have to do to benefit my career and my family.”

Source: Cotto Hints He’ll Vacate Title If WBC Forces Golovkin Fight - Boxing News 24 (https://www.boxingnews24.com/2015/06/co ... kin-fight/)

"The WBC has received official confirmation from Golden Boy Promotions of Saul 'Canelo' Alvarez's decision to vacate the WBC middleweight championship," Sulaiman said. "Gennady Golovkin is hereby recognized as the undisputed WBC middleweight champion of the world. The WBC wishes Canelo Alvarez great success in his career and will certainly look forward to seeing Golovkin vs. Alvarez materialize in the future."

They first fought in 2017 when Canelo was 27 y/o (prime) and Golovkin was 35 y/o (out of his prime) and s G still beat him.

Then Canelo got caught pissing hot with clenbuterol

In the rematch G was even older but he still gave a good-close fight to Canelo.

Also GGG was the mandatory challenger for Sturm many years but he avoided him like plague. Even Geale vacated his wba mw title to not fight GGG.

Bottom line is GGG was so damn avoided and he had to fight all top ranked contenders to get as a No 1 mandatory challenger for WBA and WBC titles to get some good fights and when G was 34-35 y/o , G finally got some good fights bc he was old and not so dangerous.

Cent0089 wrote: ↑10 May 2023, 09:55 No version of GGG would stop 32 y old Alvarez. Stop with this BS folks. GGG beat him clearly in first fight but was nowhere close to stop him or hurt him. Canelo make adjustments and handled GGG close loss in rematch. And probably none of us take third fight seriously.

Probably not bc gingerboy has a neck of an ox and a granite mandible but a 32 y/o GGG would bust up pretty bad the face of this version of Canelo.

Thomastearns wrote: ↑10 May 2023, 12:00

Cent0089 wrote: ↑10 May 2023, 09:55 No version of GGG would stop 32 y old Alvarez. Stop with this BS folks. GGG beat him clearly in first fight but was nowhere close to stop him or hurt him. Canelo make adjustments and handled GGG close loss in rematch. And probably none of us take third fight seriously.

Since a 35 year old GGG gave a 27 year old peak Canelo his toughest fight it's fair to expect a 32 year old GGG to do a lot better against any other version.

At 32 GGG was dismantling world class middleweights with ease.

Everything he did, he had to do the hard way, as the outsider and usually on the road.

Perhaps the only fortunate incident for GGG was the cancellation of the Pirog fight due to the latters back injury?

Perhaps not.

For sure that a fresher younger 32 y/o GGG would do a Bivol performance to this version of Canelo.

Jeff_lacy_ko wrote: ↑11 May 2023, 10:37 Beating guys like willie monroe and curtis stevens prove how great ggg really was.

34-35 y/o G also was beating much younger top champions like Lemieux, Jacobs and Canelo.

KiwiRider wrote: ↑09 May 2023, 16:53 32/32 is the number, because 30/30 would be a whole lot different, and yet I would still favour GGG.
My biggest question is would GGG stop Canelo at 32/32?

27 y/o Canelo could not beat a 35 y/o past of his prime GGG, so its logical to think that even at 30-30, 29-29 or 28-28 , GGG would've been even more sharper, fresher and stronger for Canelo.

apollo creed wrote: ↑11 May 2023, 14:19

KiwiRider wrote: ↑09 May 2023, 16:53 32/32 is the number, because 30/30 would be a whole lot different, and yet I would still favour GGG.
My biggest question is would GGG stop Canelo at 32/32?

27 y/o Canelo could not beat a 35 y/o past of his prime GGG, so its logical to think that even at 30-30, 29-29 or 28-28 , GGG would've been even more sharper, fresher and stronger for Canelo.

I was allowing Canelo to get to his peak at 30. I agree that Canelo prior to that was not experienced enough to handle it.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑11 May 2023, 13:11

apollo creed wrote: ↑11 May 2023, 13:07

The Asleep Lamps wrote: ↑09 May 2023, 15:18 Canelo said about Benavidez "They said the same about GGG." that is that he would be his hardest fight. I thought that was a very bad example as GGG presented an enormous obstacle for Canelo back in the day.

True , and at that time when they fought for the first time, Canelo was 26 y/o and G was 34-35 y/o and G still beat a prime-young Canelo first time and then G gave Canelo a tough-close fight in the rematch. Actually I think G did better in rematch.

He won the first 2 fights.

The 1st fight is absolutely undeniable.

The 2nd fight, because Canelo did better in some parts people wanna pretend like he has a case for winning. He doesn't. He lost again clearly.

The 3rd time with his Tag Team partner Father Time, Canelo finally got a legitimate W.

I can see this is gonna be a subject you consistently come back to for a long time

Yup, bc it was somehow an injustice for GGG just bc he was an foreign fighter from an unknown country and he was somehow screwed from his mandatory challenger rights to get the opportunity at that time to fight for super WBA title against Sturm or whoever else and then with Cotto or whoever else for the WBC mw title.