Joe Bugner vs. David Tua

[scorpio83]

12 or 15 Rounds Heavyweight Bout

The first scenario that Bugner would pull a Lennox Lewis on Tua by outboxing him behind his sharp left jabs and right hands at long range to take a decision. The second scenario that if Bugner got careless, Tua would nail him with a big left hook and he would either decision or stop him late as Bugner had a good chin. What do you guys think and who do you got?

[goose 5]

Tua wins this one but it goes the route.

[DrDuke]

Tua swarms Bugner and wins, maybe by a late kayo.

[Joson]

Most likely Tua pressures Bugner endleslly to win the nod. Joe covers up and runs all night. But Bugner would have an outside chance of using his jab to win the decision.

BTW, two of Bugner's opponents were built exactly like Tua. They were short, stocky guys, only 5'9" or so, weighing 230 lbs. But they lacked Tua's power. The two fighters I'm talking about are Bepi Ros and Mario Baruzzi. Joe beat both of them easily, looking awful in the process.

[Jaguar]

If its the best version of Bugner - the guy who went toe-to-toe with Joe Frazier - then I think he goes the distance with Tua. Maybe out points him.

In fact, I'm going to go against the grain and go Bugner WPTS 10 or 12. A young Bugner's got the height and reach, fast hands and quick feet so he can keep away from Tua and use the jab.

The only problem I see is if Tua catches him early. Then it might pan out like Bugner v Shavers. But then it was a cut that stopped Bugner in that one, even though Shavers had him down.

I've always wondered how Bugner v Shavers would've panned out without the cut because Shavers didn't have great gas and was knocking on a bit by then.

[DrDuke]

If its the best version of Bugner - the guy who went toe-to-toe with Joe Frazier - then I think he goes the distance with Tua. Maybe out points him.

It's Frazier, who allowed Bugner to survive. When Bugner was trapped at the ropes and slowly went down, Smokin' Joe could unload a barrage on him, but he threw his hand and stopped it in front of the defenceless Bugner.

[Jaguar]

If its the best version of Bugner - the guy who went toe-to-toe with Joe Frazier - then I think he goes the distance with Tua. Maybe out points him.

It's Frazier, who allowed Bugner to survive. When Bugner was trapped at the ropes and slowly went down, Smokin' Joe could unload a barrage on him, but he threw his hand and stopped it in front of the defenceless Bugner.

I've watched the fight several times and you may well be right.

But, then again, Frazier would have been stopped himself had it been 15 rounds rather than 12. His eye was fully closed at the end. Either way, my point still stands: I reckon the Bugner than went in with Frazier outpoints Tua.

[Joson]

If its the best version of Bugner - the guy who went toe-to-toe with Joe Frazier - then I think he goes the distance with Tua. Maybe out points him.

It's Frazier, who allowed Bugner to survive. When Bugner was trapped at the ropes and slowly went down, Smokin' Joe could unload a barrage on him, but he threw his hand and stopped it in front of the defenceless Bugner.

But for all we know, Bugner might have survived even if Frazier threw another power shot.

Jack Dempsey said something interesting about his 1927 knockdown of Gene Tunney, which is remembered as the "long count" controversy. As you're aware, Dempsey trapped Tunney on the ropes in the seventh round and floored him with multiple left-hooks, all devastating blows.

Tunney sunk to the canvas, seemingly KO'd. But then he regained his senses and arose, benefiting in part from a long count.

Later, Dempsey said he believed his first left-hook KO'd Tunney, who began sinking to the deck, but that the second and third left-hooks jolted Tunney back to consciousness. Think about that. Maybe the same thing applies to Frazier-Bugner?

Concerning Bugner's tenth round trip to the canvas, keep in mind that when on the floor, Joe showed no signs of being hurt. He immediately took a knee, obviously clear headed. Then he easily rose as the count reached ten.

Sure, Bugner was hurt for a split second after taking that left-hook from Frazier. He sunk slowly to the deck. But he sure did recover quickly.

I'm inclined to give Bugner the benefit of the doubt.

[DrDuke]

If its the best version of Bugner - the guy who went toe-to-toe with Joe Frazier - then I think he goes the distance with Tua. Maybe out points him.

It's Frazier, who allowed Bugner to survive. When Bugner was trapped at the ropes and slowly went down, Smokin' Joe could unload a barrage on him, but he threw his hand and stopped it in front of the defenceless Bugner.

I've watched the fight several times and you may well be right.

But, then again, Frazier would have been stopped himself had it been 15 rounds rather than 12. His eye was fully closed at the end. Either way, my point still stands: I reckon the Bugner than went in with Frazier outpoints Tua.

Well, what's for sure, that Frazier wouldn't be stopped in that fight.

[DrDuke]

If its the best version of Bugner - the guy who went toe-to-toe with Joe Frazier - then I think he goes the distance with Tua. Maybe out points him.

It's Frazier, who allowed Bugner to survive. When Bugner was trapped at the ropes and slowly went down, Smokin' Joe could unload a barrage on him, but he threw his hand and stopped it in front of the defenceless Bugner.

But for all we know, Bugner might have survived even if Frazier threw another power shot.

Jack Dempsey said something interesting about his 1927 knockdown of Gene Tunney, which is remembered as the "long count" controversy. As you're aware, Dempsey trapped Tunney on the ropes in the seventh round and floored him with multiple left-hooks, all devastating blows.

Tunney sunk to the canvas, seemingly KO'd. But then he regained his senses and arose, benefiting in part from a long count.

Later, Dempsey said he believed his first left-hook KO'd Tunney, who began sinking to the deck, but that the second and third left-hooks jolted Tunney back to consciousness. Think about that. Maybe the same thing applies to Frazier-Bugner?

Concerning Bugner's tenth round trip to the canvas, keep in mind that when on the floor, Joe showed no signs of being hurt. He immediately took a knee, obviously clear headed. Then he easily rose as the count reached ten.

Sure, Bugner was hurt for a split second after taking that left-hook from Frazier. He sunk slowly to the deck. But he sure did recover quickly.

I'm inclined to give Bugner the benefit of the doubt.

Theoritically, Frazier could land not only one punch, which he thew and stopped. There could be a couple of them or even the Johanson-Machen scenario. It's a question, if Bugner could recover the same quickly after that, if he even could survive at all.

[Joson]

It's Frazier, who allowed Bugner to survive. When Bugner was trapped at the ropes and slowly went down, Smokin' Joe could unload a barrage on him, but he threw his hand and stopped it in front of the defenceless Bugner.

But for all we know, Bugner might have survived even if Frazier threw another power shot.

Jack Dempsey said something interesting about his 1927 knockdown of Gene Tunney, which is remembered as the "long count" controversy. As you're aware, Dempsey trapped Tunney on the ropes in the seventh round and floored him with multiple left-hooks, all devastating blows.

Tunney sunk to the canvas, seemingly KO'd. But then he regained his senses and arose, benefiting in part from a long count.

Later, Dempsey said he believed his first left-hook KO'd Tunney, who began sinking to the deck, but that the second and third left-hooks jolted Tunney back to consciousness. Think about that. Maybe the same thing applies to Frazier-Bugner?

Concerning Bugner's tenth round trip to the canvas, keep in mind that when on the floor, Joe showed no signs of being hurt. He immediately took a knee, obviously clear headed. Then he easily rose as the count reached ten.

Sure, Bugner was hurt for a split second after taking that left-hook from Frazier. He sunk slowly to the deck. But he sure did recover quickly.

I'm inclined to give Bugner the benefit of the doubt.

Theoritically, Frazier could land not only one punch, which he thew and stopped. There could be a couple of them or even the Johanson-Machen scenario. It's a question, if Bugner could recover the same quickly after that, if he even could survive at all.

But we'll never know the truth. So what's the point in treating the issue as if it's "proof" Bugner could have been KO'd?

There's serious evidence to the effect that Joe could have withstood a follow-up barrage from Frazier. Just like there's evidence to the contrary.

[DrDuke]

But for all we know, Bugner might have survived even if Frazier threw another power shot.

Jack Dempsey said something interesting about his 1927 knockdown of Gene Tunney, which is remembered as the "long count" controversy. As you're aware, Dempsey trapped Tunney on the ropes in the seventh round and floored him with multiple left-hooks, all devastating blows.

Tunney sunk to the canvas, seemingly KO'd. But then he regained his senses and arose, benefiting in part from a long count.

Later, Dempsey said he believed his first left-hook KO'd Tunney, who began sinking to the deck, but that the second and third left-hooks jolted Tunney back to consciousness. Think about that. Maybe the same thing applies to Frazier-Bugner?

Concerning Bugner's tenth round trip to the canvas, keep in mind that when on the floor, Joe showed no signs of being hurt. He immediately took a knee, obviously clear headed. Then he easily rose as the count reached ten.

Sure, Bugner was hurt for a split second after taking that left-hook from Frazier. He sunk slowly to the deck. But he sure did recover quickly.

I'm inclined to give Bugner the benefit of the doubt.

Theoritically, Frazier could land not only one punch, which he thew and stopped. There could be a couple of them or even the Johanson-Machen scenario. It's a question, if Bugner could recover the same quickly after that, if he even could survive at all.

But we'll never know the truth. So what's the point in treating the issue as if it's "proof" Bugner could have been KO'd?

There's serious evidence to the effect that Joe could have withstood a follow-up barrage from Frazier. Just like there's evidence to the contrary.

We don't need this particular example to prove, that Bugner could be KOed. Just sometimes a lot give him too much credit for surviving vs Frazier, while he literally was given mercy there.

[Joson]

Theoritically, Frazier could land not only one punch, which he thew and stopped. There could be a couple of them or even the Johanson-Machen scenario. It's a question, if Bugner could recover the same quickly after that, if he even could survive at all.

But we'll never know the truth. So what's the point in treating the issue as if it's "proof" Bugner could have been KO'd?

There's serious evidence to the effect that Joe could have withstood a follow-up barrage from Frazier. Just like there's evidence to the contrary.

We don't need this particular example to prove, that Bugner could be KOed. Just sometimes a lot give him too much credit for surviving vs Frazier, while he literally was given mercy there.

Bugner proved his iron chin many times against lots of different opponents. The Frazier fight is just one of many examples.

[DrDuke]

But we'll never know the truth. So what's the point in treating the issue as if it's "proof" Bugner could have been KO'd?

There's serious evidence to the effect that Joe could have withstood a follow-up barrage from Frazier. Just like there's evidence to the contrary.

We don't need this particular example to prove, that Bugner could be KOed. Just sometimes a lot give him too much credit for surviving vs Frazier, while he literally was given mercy there.

Bugner proved his iron chin many times against lots of different opponents. The Frazier fight is just one of many examples.

Also he proved, that he still can be stopped.

[Jaguar]

Theoritically, Frazier could land not only one punch, which he thew and stopped. There could be a couple of them or even the Johanson-Machen scenario. It's a question, if Bugner could recover the same quickly after that, if he even could survive at all.

But we'll never know the truth. So what's the point in treating the issue as if it's "proof" Bugner could have been KO'd?

There's serious evidence to the effect that Joe could have withstood a follow-up barrage from Frazier. Just like there's evidence to the contrary.

We don't need this particular example to prove, that Bugner could be KOed. Just sometimes a lot give him too much credit for surviving vs Frazier, while he literally was given mercy there.

Bugner was only KOd once in his career, in his very first fight. He was stopped on three other occasions in 80-odd fights, but they were all RSC. Bugner was never KOd other than on his debut.

[Joson]

We don't need this particular example to prove, that Bugner could be KOed. Just sometimes a lot give him too much credit for surviving vs Frazier, while he literally was given mercy there.

Bugner proved his iron chin many times against lots of different opponents. The Frazier fight is just one of many examples.

Also he proved, that he still can be stopped.

George Chuvalo was "stopped" by Foreman. Did that prove Chuvalo's chin was anything less than iron? Of course not.

Seriously, you're looking at Bugner the wrong way.

[DrDuke]

Bugner proved his iron chin many times against lots of different opponents. The Frazier fight is just one of many examples.

Also he proved, that he still can be stopped.

George Chuvalo was "stopped" by Foreman. Did that prove Chuvalo's chin was anything less than iron? Of course not.

Seriously, you're looking at Bugner the wrong way.

Bad comparison. Barely Chuvalo ever looked hurt as much as Bugner at his stoppages.

[Joson]

Also he proved, that he still can be stopped.

George Chuvalo was "stopped" by Foreman. Did that prove Chuvalo's chin was anything less than iron? Of course not.

Seriously, you're looking at Bugner the wrong way.

Bad comparison. Barely Chuvalo ever looked hurt as much as Bugner at his stoppages.

You are wrong.

[DrDuke]

George Chuvalo was "stopped" by Foreman. Did that prove Chuvalo's chin was anything less than iron? Of course not.

Seriously, you're looking at Bugner the wrong way.

Bad comparison. Barely Chuvalo ever looked hurt as much as Bugner at his stoppages.

You are wrong.

What on earth u are talking about? One guy never was floored or wobbled like the other one, it was f8cken filmed!!!

[Joson]

Bad comparison. Barely Chuvalo ever looked hurt as much as Bugner at his stoppages.

You are wrong.

What on earth u are talking about? One guy never was floored or wobbled like the other one, it was f8cken filmed!!!

No. You're wrong.

[DrDuke]

You are wrong.

What on earth u are talking about? One guy never was floored or wobbled like the other one, it was f8cken filmed!!!

No. You're wrong.

[elmersalsa]

David Tua could be outboxed. When he was getting outboxed early, his coupe of grace was the lucky left hook in the later rounds.

This is a very interesting fight. I would probably pick Joe Bugner. Tua had a lot of problems with bigger guys over 6'3" height. Bugner was 6'4" or 6'5" I believe.

[Coco]

As always with Bugner, it would depend on how positive he was.

He was always liable to go into his shell against a big puncher but on the other hand had the class to easily outbox Tua.

[margaret thatcher]

David Tua could be outboxed. When he was getting outboxed early, his coupe of grace was the lucky left hook in the later rounds.

This is a very interesting fight. I would probably pick Joe Bugner. Tua had a lot of problems with bigger guys over 6'3" height. Bugner was 6'4" or 6'5" I believe.

i dont think he struggled especially with tall guys, lewis was simply far better. after that his only other losses near his prime were to 6 foot bryd and 6'2 ike. the other opponents that gave him the most problems prior to him being totally shot were 6'2 rahman, 6'2 oquendo, 6'3 maskaev, and 6'3 izon.

this is a tough one to pick, because bugner has the movement and durability that can be kryptonite to tua, but the negativity and off performances also means it's totally feasible he would shell up and tua could just outwork him or be the one to land the eye catching shots.

i think most likely it wouldnt be fun to watch.

[Ambling Alp II]

Bugner could be lackadaisical. However, Tua could as well. In some fights he was very aggressive, in other fights he did little look to land a big left hook. i.e. most of the Lewis fight, and the Byrd fight. He looked bad in most of the Oquendo fight until he stopped him.
Idiotic to question Bugner's durability. He got stopped in his very first fight, then wasn't stoppedfor another 15 years when he fought Earnie Shavers.