Page 1 of 1
If the Great Salvador Sanchez Would Have Not Died: What were His Chances in Boxing History?
Posted: 28 May 2023, 08:48
by elmersalsa
I put on some thought about Mexican great Salvador Sanchez of his chances of becoming a top ten all-time great pound per pound boxer or simply the best boxer that ever happened if his career would have not been cut so short dying in a car crash in 1982.
By the time of his death, Sanchez already accomplished lot at age 23. He was already a hall of famer and one the featherweight class greatest boxers.
Sanchez already beat 4 world champions and 3 hall of Fame boxers on his belt: Danny "Little Red" Lopez of California (twice), Juan La Porte and Wilfredo Gomez of Puerto Rico and Azumah Nelson of Ghana. That's a fine quartet right there!
He was missing a featherweight title unification against the great Champion Eusebio Pedroza of Panama. But, he wanted the bigger payday with a fight against aging great Alexis Arguello of Nicaragua for Arguello's WBC World Lightweight Crown.
But, at age 23, he left us. He had plenty of future fights ahead. Can you imagine that in 1989, Sanchez would have been still in prime probably at age 30?
These were probably the notorious boxers that he had to face at 130lbs and above:
Alexis Arguello
Cornelius Boza Edwards
Bobby Chacon
Ray "Boom Boom" Mancini
Edwin "Chapo" Rosario
Hector "Macho" Camacho
Julio Cesar Chavez
Roger Mayweather
Rocky Lockridge
Jose Luis Ramirez
Rafael "Bazooka" Limon
And maybe a fight with Pedroza?
Uff! That's a lot of great competition right there! Would Sanchez beat them all?
And if he did, could we considered him as the greatest boxer pound per yof all-time? Because the guy was on a hot streak.
Which fighters in this group would have given him the biggest trouble boxing wise?
By the time Sanchez left this world, he was 44-1-1, with 32KOs. A Very impressive record.
And also, let's not forget that Don King was his promoter. Would that affect him or not. Sanchez was always in great shape for all his fights.
Re: If the Great Salvador Sanchez Would Have Not Died: What were His Chances in Boxing History?
Posted: 28 May 2023, 09:12
by Seamus
While I've never found confirmation, I know Sanchez was struggling to make weight at Featherweight in the end, and I've always suspected the basis for the talk of a fight with Alexis Arguello was because Sanchez was probably in the gym and feeling great at 135.
Re: If the Great Salvador Sanchez Would Have Not Died: What were His Chances in Boxing History?
Posted: 28 May 2023, 09:32
by elmersalsa
Seamus wrote: ↑28 May 2023, 09:12
While I've never found confirmation, I know Sanchez was struggling to make weight at Featherweight in the end, and I've always suspected the basis for the talk of a fight with Alexis Arguello was because Sanchez was probably in the gym and feeling great at 135.
Did he really ducked the great Eusebio Pedroza for a featherweight title unification match?
A fight with the great Alexis Arguello meant more money at the time. It's true in boxing like the great George Foreman said: "You gotta get as much money as possible when you're on top". And that's true. A fight with Arguello represent a big payday at the time.
If he would have beaten Arguello, Sanchez stock would have skyrocket to about $5 to $10 million dollars per fight. Would he would have made that kind of money if beaten Arguello? Probably, yes. And why?
Boxing at the retirement of the great Sugar Ray Leonard in 1982, was looking for a big superstar. Sanchez would have been the answer at age 23. He was still young and had a lot of fights left in him. What is mind boggling to me is that by 1989, he would have still be a young cat at 30 years old! Probably by age 27 or 28, he would have retired and his skills would have been deteorirating? I don't know. But the guy was a gym freak to say at least. Always in great shape for all his fights.
Re: If the Great Salvador Sanchez Would Have Not Died: What were His Chances in Boxing History?
Posted: 28 May 2023, 10:19
by Seamus
At 23 I'd have a hard time believing he'd bypass a weight class just for a payday against possibly the biggest puncher at 135. I also think he'd need to win at least one fight against a decent opponent at 130, as a selling point for a bout with Arguello.
Re: If the Great Salvador Sanchez Would Have Not Died: What were His Chances in Boxing History?
Posted: 29 May 2023, 02:04
by Ezzard
15 rounds really suited him. 12 rounds would not.
I think he beats everyone on the list. Pedroza and Camacho would be his toughest fights. I think in terms of timeline he would have been too fresh for Arguello by the time they would have met.
Re: If the Great Salvador Sanchez Would Have Not Died: What were His Chances in Boxing History?
Posted: 29 May 2023, 10:35
by chrisjs1985
I'm a huge Sanchez fan, he's on my Mount Rushmore of personal favorites, but I tend to think other fans of his tend to get carried away. I had an event recently and someone asked about what would happen if Sanchez had jumped up and fought Arguello and I said he'd have lost, and one guy who's really high on Sanchez said he'd win easily and was the best fighter ever. Pointed to Arguello, pre-prime, struggling with Olivares, who held a huge edge in experience. I said, yeah, but Sanchez had his hands full with Patrick Ford, also problems with Castillo and Cowdell. People tend to look at the Gomez fight and Little Red fights, both of whom fought perfect fights for his style and think he'd do that to everyone.
He was a great featherweight and I think he'd have won a title at 130, as he had the frame to carry it, but when Sanchez had to lead he wasn't nearly as effective. He was a pure winner though so he'd find the ways to adapt and win big fights even with his size advantage going away as he went up in weight but ultimately, like most of the greats, if he took them all on and faced all the different styles, he picks up a loss. Maybe someone like Hector Camacho gives him fits? Especially if the fight is for 12 rounds.
I also don't think his peak would stretch into his late 20's. He was an early bloomer. The guy was an intense trainer, who put his mind and body through a lot of strain. He was probably already in his peak, and even a year before his death, he was in a car accident and nine days before the Nelson fight, he also had a car accident and injured his head. He was growing frustrated with the business of boxing too. It's possible 2-3 more years of the same intensity and he has a burnout. He put his title on the line nine times in 2 1/2 years remember.
Re: If the Great Salvador Sanchez Would Have Not Died: What were His Chances in Boxing History?
Posted: 29 May 2023, 19:42
by giacomino
chrisjs1985 wrote: ↑29 May 2023, 10:35
I'm a huge Sanchez fan, he's on my Mount Rushmore of personal favorites, but I tend to think other fans of his tend to get carried away. I had an event recently and someone asked about what would happen if Sanchez had jumped up and fought Arguello and I said he'd have lost, and one guy who's really high on Sanchez said he'd win easily and was the best fighter ever. Pointed to Arguello, pre-prime, struggling with Olivares, who held a huge edge in experience. I said, yeah, but Sanchez had his hands full with Patrick Ford, also problems with Castillo and Cowdell. People tend to look at the Gomez fight and Little Red fights, both of whom fought perfect fights for his style and think he'd do that to everyone.
He was a great featherweight and I think he'd have won a title at 130, as he had the frame to carry it, but when Sanchez had to lead he wasn't nearly as effective. He was a pure winner though so he'd find the ways to adapt and win big fights even with his size advantage going away as he went up in weight but ultimately, like most of the greats, if he took them all on and faced all the different styles, he picks up a loss. Maybe someone like Hector Camacho gives him fits? Especially if the fight is for 12 rounds.
I also don't think his peak would stretch into his late 20's. He was an early bloomer. The guy was an intense trainer, who put his mind and body through a lot of strain. He was probably already in his peak, and even a year before his death, he was in a car accident and nine days before the Nelson fight, he also had a car accident and injured his head. He was growing frustrated with the business of boxing too. It's possible 2-3 more years of the same intensity and he has a burnout. He put his title on the line nine times in 2 1/2 years remember.
Solid post. I said similar things, not as well, in another post. It’s easy for fans to get carried away and say at 23, when he died, he could have moved up and been dominant against a host of great fighters. Not sure. Maybe. Plenty of fighters are great at 23 and all but done at 26 or 27. Agree López and Gomez were tailor made for him (as would have been Zárate). I am not as big a Pedroza fan as Elmer but that would have been a chess match. A rematch with Nelson a year or two later would have been difficult, as would have been an encounter with Camacho or Chavez, who were jr. Featherweight beltholders the next few years after Sánchez’ death. I would have picked both to outpoint Sánchez in 1984
Re: If the Great Salvador Sanchez Would Have Not Died: What were His Chances in Boxing History?
Posted: 05 Jun 2023, 10:29
by Nile4000
elmersalsa wrote: ↑28 May 2023, 08:48
I put on some thought about Mexican great Salvador Sanchez of his chances of becoming a top ten all-time great pound per pound boxer or simply the best boxer that ever happened if his career would have not been cut so short dying in a car crash in 1982.
By the time of his death, Sanchez already accomplished lot at age 23. He was already a hall of famer and one the featherweight class greatest boxers.
Sanchez already beat 4 world champions and 3 hall of Fame boxers on his belt: Danny "Little Red" Lopez of California (twice), Juan La Porte and Wilfredo Gomez of Puerto Rico and Azumah Nelson of Ghana. That's a fine quartet right there!
He was missing a featherweight title unification against the great Champion Eusebio Pedroza of Panama. But, he wanted the bigger payday with a fight against aging great Alexis Arguello of Nicaragua for Arguello's WBC World Lightweight Crown.
But, at age 23, he left us. He had plenty of future fights ahead. Can you imagine that in 1989, Sanchez would have been still in prime probably at age 30?
These were probably the notorious boxers that he had to face at 130lbs and above:
Alexis Arguello
Cornelius Boza Edwards
Bobby Chacon
Ray "Boom Boom" Mancini
Edwin "Chapo" Rosario
Hector "Macho" Camacho
Julio Cesar Chavez
Roger Mayweather
Rocky Lockridge
Jose Luis Ramirez
Rafael "Bazooka" Limon
And maybe a fight with Pedroza?
Uff! That's a lot of great competition right there! Would Sanchez beat them all?
And if he did, could we considered him as the greatest boxer pound per yof all-time? Because the guy was on a hot streak.
Which fighters in this group would have given him the biggest trouble boxing wise?
By the time Sanchez left this world, he was 44-1-1, with 32KOs. A Very impressive record.
And also, let's not forget that Don King was his promoter. Would that affect him or not. Sanchez was always in great shape for all his fights.
Could see Sal beating Limon and Chacon. Everyone else has a shot at beating him, especially Rosario and Camacho if the situation is right.
Re: If the Great Salvador Sanchez Would Have Not Died: What were His Chances in Boxing History?
Posted: 05 Jun 2023, 13:20
by AngryGoon38
Seamus wrote: ↑28 May 2023, 10:19
At 23 I'd have a hard time believing he'd bypass a weight class just for a payday against possibly the biggest puncher at 135. I also think he'd need to win at least one fight against a decent opponent at 130, as a selling point for a bout with Arguello.
This is definitely a Very good point.
Would've been ideal for Sanchez to have a bout or two at 130, before taking on Arguello at 135.
Re: If the Great Salvador Sanchez Would Have Not Died: What were His Chances in Boxing History?
Posted: 05 Jun 2023, 21:22
by elmersalsa
Seamus wrote: ↑28 May 2023, 10:19
At 23 I'd have a hard time believing he'd bypass a weight class just for a payday against possibly the biggest puncher at 135. I also think he'd need to win at least one fight against a decent opponent at 130, as a selling point for a bout with Arguello.
Thinking about it, Sanchez thought that he could do it. But, thinking about it, that's kind of suicidal to challenge a guy that's bigger than you and with a wallop of a punch. The Explosive Thin Man was in another level of Wilfredo Gomez.
Like you said, he should have had at least of couple of tune up fights at 130lbs and 135lbs, to see where he's at.
But, I think that Sanchez was going to get a hefty million dollar payday for that fight. As George Foreman said: "When you are on top, you try to get as much money as possible can"
Re: If the Great Salvador Sanchez Would Have Not Died: What were His Chances in Boxing History?
Posted: 06 Jun 2023, 08:38
by Seamus
I wonder how serious the talk of a bout with Arguello really was. At the time of his fatal crash, Sanchez was training for a rematch with Juan LaPorte, and AA had already moved to 140, and the proposed super fight was definitely off. There was also talk of a rematch with Wilfredo Gomez and a bout with Mario Miranda. I believe a move to 130 was in the works, but I'm seriously beginning to doubt a fight with Arguello was never that seriously considered.
Re: If the Great Salvador Sanchez Would Have Not Died: What were His Chances in Boxing History?
Posted: 06 Jun 2023, 09:44
by chrisjs1985
Seamus wrote: ↑06 Jun 2023, 08:38
I wonder how serious the talk of a bout with Arguello really was. At the time of his fatal crash, Sanchez was training for a rematch with Juan LaPorte, and AA had already moved to 140, and the proposed super fight was definitely off. There was also talk of a rematch with Wilfredo Gomez and a bout with Mario Miranda. I believe a move to 130 was in the works, but I'm seriously beginning to doubt a fight with Arguello was never that seriously considered.
Arguello said he had two options, one was Sanchez and the other was Pryor at 140 and he was leaning towards Pryor for the history.
Re: If the Great Salvador Sanchez Would Have Not Died: What were His Chances in Boxing History?
Posted: 06 Jun 2023, 11:43
by BroughtonRulesRefuge
- Sal had compiled a better title record by 23 years of age than his same age contemporary Ray Leonard for the entirety of his career.
Leonard only won his first title age 23 and had to retire repeatedly for comebacks to finish with a lesser record well past his prime.
Sal was scheduled to enter Medical school after this fight as I recall, a helluva lot smarter than boxing. At his best, he can beat anyone in his weight class in history with less losses than any other featherweight could compile...yup
Re: If the Great Salvador Sanchez Would Have Not Died: What were His Chances in Boxing History?
Posted: 08 Jun 2023, 04:56
by jaouad
One thing we definitely know is that he was scheduled to fight Juan Laporte on September 15th in Madison Square Garden.
Other fights that most likely would have happened are; Miranda Maria (which was the mandatory that got injured so Nelson stepped in short notice) and a rematch Wilfredo Gomez.
A unification bout with Pedroza would have been nice but since i haven’t read anything that both parties were in talks of a bout before Sanchez passed away i doubt it would have happend if he would not have passed away
Re: If the Great Salvador Sanchez Would Have Not Died: What were His Chances in Boxing History?
Posted: 08 Jun 2023, 12:37
by elmersalsa
1111519 wrote: ↑08 Jun 2023, 04:56
One thing we definitely know is that he was scheduled to fight Juan Laporte on September 15th in Madison Square Garden.
Other fights that most likely would have happened are; Miranda Maria (which was the mandatory that got injured so Nelson stepped in short notice) and a rematch Wilfredo Gomez.
A unification bout with Pedroza would have been nice but since i haven’t read anything that both parties were in talks of a bout before Sanchez passed away i doubt it would have happend if he would not have passed away
Salvador Sanchez didn't want to meet Eusebio Pedroza for a title unification match. He wanted Alexis Arguello instead. I could see why. Arguello represented much more glory and cash. A fight with Pedroza was less money and higher risk.
Re: If the Great Salvador Sanchez Would Have Not Died: What were His Chances in Boxing History?
Posted: 09 Jun 2023, 11:59
by Ezzard
If Sanchez had beaten Arguello, Chavez, Pedroza and a rematch with Nelson... He would have easily been the best of his generation. Even 3 of the 4.
He would start favourite in all 4 fights for me.
Re: If the Great Salvador Sanchez Would Have Not Died: What were His Chances in Boxing History?
Posted: 09 Jun 2023, 20:03
by Ambling Alp II
I think I am with you on this. He would more likely win against any one of them, but it would be tough to run the table and go 4-0.
Re: If the Great Salvador Sanchez Would Have Not Died: What were His Chances in Boxing History?
Posted: 10 Jun 2023, 15:10
by elmersalsa
Ezzard wrote: ↑09 Jun 2023, 11:59
If Sanchez had beaten Arguello, Chavez, Pedroza and a rematch with Nelson... He would have easily been the best of his generation. Even 3 of the 4.
He would start favourite in all 4 fights for me.
Probably the best of all-time.
Re: If the Great Salvador Sanchez Would Have Not Died: What were His Chances in Boxing History?
Posted: 10 Jun 2023, 21:05
by jaouad
elmersalsa wrote: ↑08 Jun 2023, 12:37
1111519 wrote: ↑08 Jun 2023, 04:56
One thing we definitely know is that he was scheduled to fight Juan Laporte on September 15th in Madison Square Garden.
Other fights that most likely would have happened are; Miranda Maria (which was the mandatory that got injured so Nelson stepped in short notice) and a rematch Wilfredo Gomez.
A unification bout with Pedroza would have been nice but since i haven’t read anything that both parties were in talks of a bout before Sanchez passed away i doubt it would have happend if he would not have passed away
Salvador Sanchez didn't want to meet Eusebio Pedroza for a title unification match. He wanted Alexis Arguello instead. I could see why. Arguello represented much more glory and cash. A fight with Pedroza was less money and higher risk.
That’s true but the Arguello fight was already off the table at the time of his death.
Re: If the Great Salvador Sanchez Would Have Not Died: What were His Chances in Boxing History?
Posted: 10 Jun 2023, 22:33
by elmersalsa
1111519 wrote: ↑10 Jun 2023, 21:05
elmersalsa wrote: ↑08 Jun 2023, 12:37
1111519 wrote: ↑08 Jun 2023, 04:56
One thing we definitely know is that he was scheduled to fight Juan Laporte on September 15th in Madison Square Garden.
Other fights that most likely would have happened are; Miranda Maria (which was the mandatory that got injured so Nelson stepped in short notice) and a rematch Wilfredo Gomez.
A unification bout with Pedroza would have been nice but since i haven’t read anything that both parties were in talks of a bout before Sanchez passed away i doubt it would have happend if he would not have passed away
Salvador Sanchez didn't want to meet Eusebio Pedroza for a title unification match. He wanted Alexis Arguello instead. I could see why. Arguello represented much more glory and cash. A fight with Pedroza was less money and higher risk.
That’s true but the Arguello fight was already off the table at the time of his death.
Really, because he wanted to fight Alexis Arguello bad. I mean, bad!
Re: If the Great Salvador Sanchez Would Have Not Died: What were His Chances in Boxing History?
Posted: 11 Jun 2023, 04:33
by Ezzard
I think timelines suit Sanchez too.
He would have been absolute prime. Arguello a little bit past his prime and Chavez a little bit pre-prime.
I give Sanchez the edge in both.
Sanchez, Arguello, Chavez and Pedroza were usually slow starters. Nelson usually started fast. Chavez never fought a 15 round fight. The advent of 12 rounds would have hurt Sanchez.
I imagine a rematch with Nelson being like the first fight only with Sanchez winning a tight decision this time.
Pedroza would be the hardest fight for him. Pedroza could fight aggressively or move and counter.
Mitchell would have been another tough fight. But winnable.
Eventually Sanchez would be fed to the bigger men like Camacho or Whittaker as the new talents.
But he would have likely been the fighter of the decade.
Re: If the Great Salvador Sanchez Would Have Not Died: What were His Chances in Boxing History?
Posted: 11 Jun 2023, 14:24
by jaouad
elmersalsa wrote: ↑10 Jun 2023, 22:33
1111519 wrote: ↑10 Jun 2023, 21:05
elmersalsa wrote: ↑08 Jun 2023, 12:37
Salvador Sanchez didn't want to meet Eusebio Pedroza for a title unification match. He wanted Alexis Arguello instead. I could see why. Arguello represented much more glory and cash. A fight with Pedroza was less money and higher risk.
That’s true but the Arguello fight was already off the table at the time of his death.
Really, because he wanted to fight Alexis Arguello bad. I mean, bad!
Yeah really because Argüello already moved up to 140 to fight Kevin Rooney in July 1982 and eventually Aaron Pryor for the titles in Nov. 1982
Re: If the Great Salvador Sanchez Would Have Not Died: What were His Chances in Boxing History?
Posted: 12 Jun 2023, 11:46
by gilgamesh
I think he definitely would've continued to be a Championship level fighter up to 135, and could've quite possibly been capable of becoming Boxing's first 4 weight World Champion by picking up a title at 140 as well.
He was an excellent boxer, and would've continued to be excellent for at least 10 more years. So it's hard to imagine that at the very least you couldn't add 30 to 40 more victories to his ledger, and at least a few more Championships.