BoxRec

Rocky Marciano, quite unexpectedly, retired on April 27th of 1956 naming Archie Moore and Floyd Patterson (among others) as the top ten. On November 30th of that year Patterson became Marciano's successor knocking out Moore in the 5th round.



Marciano drifted off into Hollywood appearing in television shows and commercials, along with banquet dinners where he'd make appearances. Sometimes he was involved in boxing as a referee, commentator, or just appearing at ringside.

On June 26th, 1959 Patterson loses to Ingemar Johansson. Now, occasionally Marciano would be asked whether he could beat Patterson and would always say, "Yes," but since he was an American Rocky never felt the urge to try to wrest the title off of Patterson.



The big Swede winning the title changed things. On the Groucho Marx Show the former champion, in a rare moment of public bravado, said the he would defeat Johansson. That was May 5th, 1960.

On June 20th, 1960 Floyd Patterson becomes the first man in heavyweight history to regain the title. But it was another blood and guts affair where Patterson hit the deck multiple times, and it was a no brainer that a rubber match was necessary.

This is where things get interesting. According to Lou Duva, Marciano's close friend, a contract was sent to Marciano that he signed. On the condition that Patterson lost to Johansson in the rubber match Marciano would unretire and face the big Swede.

Marciano did indeed have a training camp, was seeing it through, but on March 3rd 1961 Patterson won the rubbermatch in yet another blood and guts match and the comeback fight never materialized. Marciano would say in an August 7th, 1966 interview in Australia that he attempted a comeback, in secret, but found he didn't have the desire anymore and gave it up.



This, of course, could not be the truth because the contract existed. I think it was simply a matter of the opportunity vaporizing. The fact that Marciano lost 50 pounds, and got himself into shape "in case the punches suddenly became real" he could win in the 1969 superfight with Muhammad Ali goes to show even then Marciano had a competitive spirit. So, I think with Marciano it was all about the money because he was going to get a guaranteed $1 million for Johansson when he got $400,000+ against Archie Moore.



But let's suppose Patterson didn't beat Johansson. Let's say Marciano fought Johansson in 1961, four years removed from the ring. How would it have gone?

Note: It must be said some people say that the comeback for Marciano began in 1959, immediately after Johansson beat Patterson and that the proposed match was supposed to happen before the rematch with Patterson. A link below shows pictures of Marciano allegedly in Miami in 1959 hitting a punching bag preparing for the fight. According to the article it got leaked that Marciano was on the comeback trail. Later on the article states as late as 1961 Marciano considered facing Patterson and Liston.

https://www.boxingoverbroadway.com/was- ... rocky-2-0/

I suspect after a 4 year absence from the ring he would've gone life and death with Johansson and barely beaten him, if he beat him at all.

Prime for Prime I'd imagine the Rock makes fairly easy work of Ingo, but in 1960 it would've been a very difficult fight for him I suspect.

I'd still favor Rock by the slightest margin, but Johansson beating him in 1960 isn't inconceivable.

coming straight back from 4 years of inactivity? probably ingo beats him tbh

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑29 May 2023, 12:58 coming straight back from 4 years of inactivity? probably ingo beats him tbh

Patterson definitely would've. That's why he didn't f*ck with that one.

Honestly I suspect Patterson might've beat him in 1956 too.

1961 might've been a stretch but if the 1959 account is true, that's 2-3 years out of the ring for Marciano. I think an either case Marciano wins, but it would be a struggle in 1961.

Why are you calling Ingo the "Big Swede?" He was only 6' 1/2" and 197 lbs. Barely bigger than Marciano.

As for the 1959 comeback, I recall reading that he had no intention of returning to the ring. Rocky's real motive was to mock and needle his old promoter, to make the guy squirm trying to set the fight up. I'm talking about the book written by Everett M. Skehan.

I don't recall the promoter's name. But he was real famous. A promotional titan of the 1950s.

Marciano would have made fairly quick work of him in 1955 or 1956. I would guess he’d have beaten him in 1959 but it would have been more of a struggle. Rock would have been 35 or 36, which was ancient (with exceptions like Archie Moore) in that era. 1961, when he would have been 38ish, is a real stretch, even though I don’t particularly rate the Swede. Coming back after all that time with Rock’s style would have been difficult

1173348 wrote: ↑29 May 2023, 17:24 Why are you calling Ingo the "Big Swede?" He was only 6' 1/2" and 197 lbs. Barely bigger than Marciano.

As for the 1959 comeback, I recall reading that he had no intention of returning to the ring. Rocky's real motive was to mock and needle his old promoter, to make the guy squirm trying to set the fight up. I'm talking about the book written by Everett M. Skehan.

I don't recall the promoter's name. But he was real famous. A promotional titan of the 1950s.

Johansson weighed about 206 against Patterson in their 3rd fight, his only fight in 1961. (Which doesn't make sense because Patterson was under 200, which means Patterson automatically should have lost).

Marciano's promoter Mike Norris of the IBC. However, The IBC was not able to promote Patterson's title fights including those with Johannson.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑29 May 2023, 19:26

1173348 wrote: ↑29 May 2023, 17:24 Why are you calling Ingo the "Big Swede?" He was only 6' 1/2" and 197 lbs. Barely bigger than Marciano.

As for the 1959 comeback, I recall reading that he had no intention of returning to the ring. Rocky's real motive was to mock and needle his old promoter, to make the guy squirm trying to set the fight up. I'm talking about the book written by Everett M. Skehan.

I don't recall the promoter's name. But he was real famous. A promotional titan of the 1950s.

Johansson weighed about 206 against Patterson in their 3rd fight, his only fight in 1961. (Which doesn't make sense because Patterson was under 200, which means Patterson automatically should have lost).

Marciano's promoter Mike Norris of the IBC. However, The IBC was not able to promote Patterson's title fights including those with Johannson.

I'm not sure I understand your point.

1173348 wrote: ↑29 May 2023, 19:40

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑29 May 2023, 19:26

1173348 wrote: ↑29 May 2023, 17:24 Why are you calling Ingo the "Big Swede?" He was only 6' 1/2" and 197 lbs. Barely bigger than Marciano.

As for the 1959 comeback, I recall reading that he had no intention of returning to the ring. Rocky's real motive was to mock and needle his old promoter, to make the guy squirm trying to set the fight up. I'm talking about the book written by Everett M. Skehan.

I don't recall the promoter's name. But he was real famous. A promotional titan of the 1950s.

Johansson weighed about 206 against Patterson in their 3rd fight, his only fight in 1961. (Which doesn't make sense because Patterson was under 200, which means Patterson automatically should have lost).

Marciano's promoter Mike Norris of the IBC. However, The IBC was not able to promote Patterson's title fights including those with Johannson.

I'm not sure I understand your point.

He was being facetious. It's been something of a back and forth about how much height/weight matters in a fight especially in hypotheticals between guys like Patterson vs Fury. Alp is of the opinion height and weight makes minimal difference.



As for the "mock and needle" comment, if that's the case then why would Marciano get into this kind of shape? This is allegedly in 1959 in Miami when Marciano was offered 2.2 million dollars for Johansson. If it was all a joke why would he get himself into that kind of shape when before he was roly poly fat?