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UK 1973 - Richard Dunn W8 Roy Williams - who saw it?
Posted: 17 Jun 2023, 13:04
by Joson
I'm interested in the details of this fight.
In 1973, Richard Dunn (20-5) won an eight round nod over tough American Roy Williams (17-2). I'm surprised because, when you think about it, Williams would appear to have all the advantages.
Roy, known for his mobility and speed, was easily the better athlete and harder hitter. A stinging combination puncher too. The tallish, awkward Dunn - who was southpaw - was plucky and aggressive, but had poor punch resistance. You'd think Williams wins this, maybe even by KO. But it didn't turn out that way.
Anyone know anything?
Re: UK 1973 - Richard Dunn W8 Roy Williams - who saw it?
Posted: 17 Jun 2023, 13:38
by Controversial
Joson wrote: ↑17 Jun 2023, 13:04
I'm interested in the details of this fight.
In 1973, Richard Dunn (20-5) won an eight round nod over tough American Roy Williams (17-2). I'm surprised because, when you think about it, Williams would appear to have all the advantages.
Roy, known for his mobility and speed, was easily the better athlete and harder hitter. A stinging combination puncher too. The tallish, awkward Dunn - who was southpaw - was plucky and aggressive, but had poor punch resistance. You'd think Williams wins this, maybe even by KO. But it didn't turn out that way.
Anyone know anything?
Write up below. British fighter in England with just the English ref scoring it, not sure if that was a factor!
Richard Dunn, 217, of Bradford turned in his best win to date and the 11th in his last 12 with an 8 round verdict over Roy Williams, 223, of Philadelphia at the World Sporting Club. Williams got off to a slow start as he seemed puzzled by the steady stream of right jabs thrown his way by Dunn. He came on in the 5th and 6th round as he pressed the attack, but Dunn was too shifty for him, and kept his jabbing attack going to stay out of harm. Roy did get in some effective left-right combinations, but not many and Dunn stayed in charge of the fight by keeping it mostly at long range where his footwork and jab kept him in command." -Boxing Illustrated, April 1973 issue
Referee Harry Gibbs, the sole judge, scored it 39 3/4 - 38 3/4 for Dunn
Re: UK 1973 - Richard Dunn W8 Roy Williams - who saw it?
Posted: 17 Jun 2023, 15:26
by Joson
Controversial wrote: ↑17 Jun 2023, 13:38
Joson wrote: ↑17 Jun 2023, 13:04
I'm interested in the details of this fight.
In 1973, Richard Dunn (20-5) won an eight round nod over tough American Roy Williams (17-2). I'm surprised because, when you think about it, Williams would appear to have all the advantages.
Roy, known for his mobility and speed, was easily the better athlete and harder hitter. A stinging combination puncher too. The tallish, awkward Dunn - who was southpaw - was plucky and aggressive, but had poor punch resistance. You'd think Williams wins this, maybe even by KO. But it didn't turn out that way.
Anyone know anything?
Write up below. British fighter in England with just the English ref scoring it, not sure if that was a factor!
Richard Dunn, 217, of Bradford turned in his best win to date and the 11th in his last 12 with an 8 round verdict over Roy Williams, 223, of Philadelphia at the World Sporting Club. Williams got off to a slow start as he seemed puzzled by the steady stream of right jabs thrown his way by Dunn. He came on in the 5th and 6th round as he pressed the attack, but Dunn was too shifty for him, and kept his jabbing attack going to stay out of harm. Roy did get in some effective left-right combinations, but not many and Dunn stayed in charge of the fight by keeping it mostly at long range where his footwork and jab kept him in command." -Boxing Illustrated, April 1973 issue
Referee Harry Gibbs, the sole judge, scored it 39 3/4 - 38 3/4 for Dunn
Thanks.
If this description is true and accurate, then Dunn won legitimately. Sounds like Dunn succeeded in forcing his fight on Williams, with predictable results.
Dunn wasn't that bad, so I could picture something like this happening.
Normally I'd expect Williams to KO Dunn, the only exception being if Dunn fights his best fight, which must be what happened on this occasion. The British southpaw confused and outhustled Williams.
I'm assuming the Boxing Illustrated write-up is accurate.
Re: UK 1973 - Richard Dunn W8 Roy Williams - who saw it?
Posted: 17 Jun 2023, 16:59
by prewarboxing
According to Boxing News, Dunn won pretty convincingly, boxing confidently behind his right jab. Boxing World mentioned that Williams failed to follow up his successful attacks and tended to pose rather than fight. Dunn won five rounds, Williams one, with two even.
Hope that helps
Miles Templeton
Re: UK 1973 - Richard Dunn W8 Roy Williams - who saw it?
Posted: 17 Jun 2023, 18:57
by Joson
prewarboxing wrote: ↑17 Jun 2023, 16:59
According to Boxing News, Dunn won pretty convincingly, boxing confidently behind his right jab. Boxing World mentioned that Williams failed to follow up his successful attacks and tended to pose rather than fight. Dunn won five rounds, Williams one, with two even.
Hope that helps
Miles Templeton
Thanks. But you know so much about Dunn I'd like to ask another question.
Remember in early 1976, when Dunn was scheduled to fight Ernie Shavers in London? Dunn was on a winning strike, haven beaten Bunny Johnson, Terry Kreuger, Danny McAlinden and others. Shavers had just lost a thiller to Ron Lyle, and was looking to resume his winning ways. Both Shavers and Dunn were rated in the top-15, but not necessarily the top-ten.
As you're no doubt aware, Dunn vs Shavers was scrapped when Don King decided he wanted Richard as Ali's next opponent, in May, in Munich.
Did Dunn dodge a silver bullet by getting to sidestep Shavers?
Re: UK 1973 - Richard Dunn W8 Roy Williams - who saw it?
Posted: 19 Jun 2023, 12:37
by prewarboxing
I think so yes. Shavers would have easily beaten Dunn, in my opinion.
Miles Templeton
Re: UK 1973 - Richard Dunn W8 Roy Williams - who saw it?
Posted: 31 Aug 2023, 00:22
by 1323342
Re: UK 1973 - Richard Dunn W8 Roy Williams - who saw it?
Posted: 31 Aug 2023, 16:19
by Caractacus
ever wonder how many people who were at ringside for that fight are still around ?
Things like that make you wonder.
Re: UK 1973 - Richard Dunn W8 Roy Williams - who saw it?
Posted: 31 Aug 2023, 16:26
by Joson
Caractacus wrote: ↑31 Aug 2023, 16:19
ever wonder how many people who were at ringside for that fight are still around ?
Things like that make you wonder.
I figured some people, at least, might have seen the video. Also, it's reasonable to assume some UK guys here - life-long fight fans they be - might have attended this bout in earlier years.
The fight interests me because many US fans believe Williams had the ability, although not the rating, of a legitimate contender. I don't know that the claim is true, but lots of 1970s fans have that attitude about Roy.
Whatever the truth, Dunn - supposedly the inferior fighter - seems to have beaten Williams convincingly.
Re: UK 1973 - Richard Dunn W8 Roy Williams - who saw it?
Posted: 31 Aug 2023, 22:31
by Ambling Alp II
It would be interesting to see the fight. Guessing that Williams didn't fight as he was capable of. Just watching Dunn vs Ali, he looked so inept. Maybe it was just a bad performance by Williams.
Re: UK 1973 - Richard Dunn W8 Roy Williams - who saw it?
Posted: 01 Sep 2023, 06:33
by Controversial
A result definitely against the odds, Dunn not a big puncher and had a pretty poor chin against a big puncher who on paper looked the better fighter. Just goes to show anything can happen in a fight.
Re: UK 1973 - Richard Dunn W8 Roy Williams - who saw it?
Posted: 01 Sep 2023, 08:54
by Joson
Controversial wrote: ↑01 Sep 2023, 06:33
A result definitely against the odds, Dunn not a big puncher and had a pretty poor chin against a big puncher who on paper looked the better fighter. Just goes to show anything can happen in a fight.
Sometimes Dunn was effective with his peppery right-jab and awkward, southpaw combination punching. I guess he stole the initiative from Williams, who probably never figured out how to counter the right-jab.
Re: UK 1973 - Richard Dunn W8 Roy Williams - who saw it?
Posted: 01 Sep 2023, 09:04
by Joson
Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑31 Aug 2023, 22:31
It would be interesting to see the fight. Guessing that Williams didn't fight as he was capable of. Just watching Dunn vs Ali, he looked so inept. Maybe it was just a bad performance by Williams.
It's true that Ali easily wiped-out Dunn. But if you watch closely, you can see Muhammad getting clipped by pesky shots which, normally, nobody could hit him. That's an example of Dunn squeezing maximum value out of his southpaw's advantage.
From start to finish, Williams was probably confused about Dunn's southpaw stance. Another explanation is that Williams may not have been as good as so many US fans believed.
I'm sure you're aware that Williams made his reputation as a sparring partner for Ali and other leading heavyweights. Roy never established himself with wins over top-ten or top-20 opponents.
Re: UK 1973 - Richard Dunn W8 Roy Williams - who saw it?
Posted: 02 Sep 2023, 08:07
by Ambling Alp II
Totally agree that Williams was not one of top fighters. He did have some ability, which he sometimes used, and sometimes did not. I just thought Dunn was awful. He looked like a total joke against Ali. I literally was laughing when I first saw that fight.
Without seeing the fight, it's hard to imagine that Dunn just fought a really good fight; he doesn't seem capable of doing that. My best guess was that Willaims slept walked his way through the fight and deservedly lost.
Re: UK 1973 - Richard Dunn W8 Roy Williams - who saw it?
Posted: 02 Sep 2023, 12:02
by Caractacus
wasn't there a boxing scandel there in Britain back in 1966,
of a American boxing saying he was asked to throw a fight
with a ranked British HW ? (not Dunn)
Re: UK 1973 - Richard Dunn W8 Roy Williams - who saw it?
Posted: 02 Sep 2023, 12:52
by Controversial
Wouldn’t be surprised, probably happens more than we know
Re: UK 1973 - Richard Dunn W8 Roy Williams - who saw it?
Posted: 13 Sep 2023, 16:04
by Joson
Caractacus wrote: ↑02 Sep 2023, 12:02
wasn't there a boxing scandel there in Britain back in 1966,
of a American boxing saying he was asked to throw a fight
with a ranked British HW ? (not Dunn)
I didn't know that. But it wouldn't surprise me if it's true.
I've heard from credible sources that, on the UK and Euro club circuit, it's not unusual for foreign promoters to arrange "thrown fights" when American boxers are involved.
It's entirely possible for a good American fighter, especially if he's short on cash, to agree to throw a fight against an inferior overseas opponent.
Another kind of fix is when an inferior fighter agrees to take a dive against a better one. This happens because the "A" side's promoter doesn't want their fighter taking too long to clinch what's supposed to be a quick, easy KO.
Re: UK 1973 - Richard Dunn W8 Roy Williams - who saw it?
Posted: 13 Sep 2023, 16:10
by Caractacus
I think it was Billy Walker fighting an American ,on the under card of Floyd Patterson vrs Henry Cooper in 1966.
Re: UK 1973 - Richard Dunn W8 Roy Williams - who saw it?
Posted: 13 Sep 2023, 20:59
by evrenb
Caractacus wrote: ↑13 Sep 2023, 16:10
I think it was Billy Walker fighting an American ,on the under card of Floyd Patterson vrs Henry Cooper in 1966.
Are you sure about that??
Re: UK 1973 - Richard Dunn W8 Roy Williams - who saw it?
Posted: 14 Sep 2023, 07:25
by Joson
Caractacus wrote: ↑13 Sep 2023, 16:10
I think it was Billy Walker fighting an American ,on the under card of Floyd Patterson vrs Henry Cooper in 1966.
I checked the record book. Walker fought a German on that night in 1966. Maybe it was another Walker fight, or a different UK heavyweight?
