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What if #2 The Clones Cyclone
Posted: 03 Aug 2023, 04:28
by Ezzard
Barry McGuigan was an all-action fighter and a hero to many.
The defeat to Cruz scuppered an exciting and lucrative career for Mcguigan. The fight itself was a classic. McGuigan was dropped three times and deducted a point. But only lost by a single point on 2 of the scorecards.
How do things pan out if McGuigan is only dropped twice or does not receive the point deduction? He retains the title on a draw. What next?
Re: What if #2 The Clones Cyclone
Posted: 04 Aug 2023, 08:22
by Flump
Rematch with Cruz, probably in Belfast, which he wins, then the unification with Nelson, which he likely loses.
Re: What if #2 The Clones Cyclone
Posted: 05 Aug 2023, 04:09
by Ezzard
There was an offer to fight Gomez at 130 which McGuigan's team did not take up. He fought Cruz instead, Gomez was beaten by Layne a month earlier. It would have been a good earner, an easy fight and raised Barry's profile further. Perhaps Gomez might have been lined up for a return to Belfast...
I'm not sure who the WBA #1 was at the time. Villasana? Esparragoza? Either would have been a tough fight.
Re: What if #2 The Clones Cyclone
Posted: 05 Aug 2023, 04:17
by Ezzard
After the great wins over Pedroza and Taylor, Barry was riding high. But with the KO1 of Pat Cowdell, the despatching of Cabrera easier than McGuigan and Barry's life and death with Cruz... Nelson became the top dog in most people's minds.
I would expect Barry and his team would steer him into this big money fight after a couple more relatively easy defences.
I think there would be Gomez in Belfast. A lower top 10 guy in Dublin. I agree with Flump that Barry beats Cruz in a rematch.
Then maybe Nelson at MSG NY.
Nelson would be favourite. But he would likely be aggressive the way he was with McDonnell. Barry would have met him head on. Barry's best shot was the left hook and that was the punch Sanchez dissected Nelson with. I can't bet against Azumah. But I think this is a close fight. Closer than many expect.
Looking at the McDonnell fight as a yard stick... Barry would have won more rounds than Jim.
Re: What if #2 The Clones Cyclone
Posted: 05 Aug 2023, 04:28
by Ezzard
It's quite possible...more likely than not...Nelson wins a thrilling fight. Barry would have left it all in the ring. Potentially a featherweight answer to Pryor-Arguello. If this was the case McGuigan might be tempted by a big money rematch. If so I expect an easier night for Nelson.
If there was no rematch I can imagine Barry hunting for a title at 130. Maybe Brian Mitchell.
Re: What if #2 The Clones Cyclone
Posted: 05 Aug 2023, 09:19
by Seamus
Even though Nelson ranks much higher alltime, Azumah could be hurt. Mario Martinez dropped him and let him off the hook in my opinion. LaPorte wobbled him and made him cautious for most of the fight. Nelson would be a clear favorite, but McGuigan at his best could pull it off, if he worked the body from the opening bell, and landed a couple of big punches throughout to fight to keep Nelson on the defensive.It wouldn't be easy, but it wouldn't be impossible either.
Re: What if #2 The Clones Cyclone
Posted: 06 Aug 2023, 03:52
by Ezzard
Seamus wrote: ↑05 Aug 2023, 09:19
Even though Nelson ranks much higher alltime, Azumah could be hurt. Mario Martinez dropped him and let him off the hook in my opinion. LaPorte wobbled him and made him cautious for most of the fight. Nelson would be a clear favorite, but McGuigan at his best could pull it off, if he worked the body from the opening bell, and landed a couple of big punches throughout to fight to keep Nelson on the defensive.It wouldn't be easy, but it wouldn't be impossible either.
That's how I see it. Nelson had more to his game. But if he goes at Barry like he did McDonnell then I think McGuigan has a real chance.
Such a disappointment that McGuigan's career didn't really go anywhere after Cruz. Seems crazy that his big US fight was in Vegas and not MSG NY.
Re: What if #2 The Clones Cyclone
Posted: 06 Aug 2023, 04:33
by Controversial
Ezzard wrote: ↑06 Aug 2023, 03:52
Such a disappointment that McGuigan's career didn't really go anywhere after Cruz.
Yep, he was just 25 when Cruz beat him and he took two years off after that defeat and was still only 28 when he retired. His last fight was to a cut as well, maybe the desire wasn't there anymore as you'd think physically he had more to give.
Re: What if #2 The Clones Cyclone
Posted: 06 Aug 2023, 06:43
by Noxy
Remember his relationship with Eastwood had run its course by then. I don’t think he would have fought again on an Eastwood show. So, that situation would have had to be sorted.
Then Barry had a mandatory against Esparragoza, who, to me, would have beaten Barry.
McGuigan’s cyclone style was not designed for longevity. Although he was still good post-Cruz, he was no longer the force he had been on the way up.
Re: What if #2 The Clones Cyclone
Posted: 06 Aug 2023, 07:32
by Controversial
Noxy wrote: ↑06 Aug 2023, 06:43
Remember his relationship with Eastwood had run its course by then. I don’t think he would have fought again on an Eastwood show. So, that situation would have had to be sorted.
Then Barry had a mandatory against Esparragoza, who, to me, would have beaten Barry.
McGuigan’s cyclone style was not designed for longevity. Although he was still good post-Cruz, he was no longer the force he had been on the way up.
Wasn’t the Eastwood situation sorted as he signed with Warren when he came back? I can’t remember the timeline though as it seemed to drag in for ages. I agree though, his style wasn’t suited to a long career plus he was financially in a good place which probably played a part in his decision.
Re: What if #2 The Clones Cyclone
Posted: 06 Aug 2023, 09:52
by Noxy
Yes, he signed with Warren but that was about two years later. If he had kept his title, he would have had to deal with his managerial situation.
Re: What if #2 The Clones Cyclone
Posted: 06 Aug 2023, 16:03
by Ketchel
I always thought that after JC Chavez struggled with Laporte that McGuigan challenging at super feather would be a winnable fight. JC Chavez was struggling at that weight at that time and I think super feather we would have seen a stronger Cyclone.
Re: What if #2 The Clones Cyclone
Posted: 07 Aug 2023, 04:52
by Ezzard
Ketchel wrote: ↑06 Aug 2023, 16:03
I always thought that after JC Chavez struggled with Laporte that McGuigan challenging at super feather would be a winnable fight. JC Chavez was struggling at that weight at that time and I think super feather we would have seen a stronger Cyclone.
A good point. JCC was the WBC holder. Barry was a 15 round fighter.
We missed out on so many potentially great fights.
Re: What if #2 The Clones Cyclone
Posted: 07 Aug 2023, 04:53
by Ezzard
Ezzard wrote: ↑07 Aug 2023, 04:52
Ketchel wrote: ↑06 Aug 2023, 16:03
I always thought that after JC Chavez struggled with Laporte that McGuigan challenging at super feather would be a winnable fight. JC Chavez was struggling at that weight at that time and I think super feather we would have seen a stronger Cyclone.
A good point. JCC was the WBC holder (12 rounds). Barry was a 15 round fighter.
We missed out on so many potentially great fights.
Re: What if #2 The Clones Cyclone
Posted: 07 Aug 2023, 11:40
by margaret thatcher
barry beating Chavez and Nelson, now that is a hell of a career boost for barry. seems very unlikely but you never know, going down completely different paths often comes down to small things
Re: What if #2 The Clones Cyclone
Posted: 07 Aug 2023, 17:29
by giacomino
I really enjoyed watching Barry a lot back in the day but don't see him moving up and lasting the distance vs Chavez (a lot of top people struggled with LaPorte) or beating Nelson. If he had beaten Nelson and Chavez he surely would have deserved to be in the Hall of Fame.
I know they were belt holders at different times, but I always thought McGuigan vs Fenech would have been a great fight at 126 or 130
Re: What if #2 The Clones Cyclone
Posted: 08 Aug 2023, 15:12
by Bodyshot3
I suppose the obvious answer is that Stevie Cruz gets the rematch clause from hell......come and fight in Belfast or Dublin in the autumn and in front of my people and face my weather.....and see how you like that.
A deeply unwelcome prospect for the quite inexperienced Cruz for all kinds of reasons and a massive, massive challenge.
But having read Barry's warts-and-all book a few times, even a drawn fight might not have resulted in a decision to get Cruz to cross the Atlantic and 'sort him out' at home.
McGuigan was a chunky featherweight having to train like a beserker and empty his battery to just make the weight and yes, there were big problems with Eastwood and also with the whole business of dealing with his runaway fame.
He was mentally exhausted into the bargain, badly needing a break from being public property for so long and being unable to concentrate on just being a fighter. It is easy to forget how 'big' Barry actually was and the strain that caused.
I have an inkling Barry would have taken a break even in the event of a draw......maybe sorted out his problems with Eastwood faster, spent some time with his family and then gone again.
Sadly, he lost nearly two very vital 'prime' years before facing Perez and that was crucial.......McGuigan admits that his style of fighting would always had a limited shelf-life.
He needed to max-out what he could deliver and there was a limited window to do this in.
Re: What if #2 The Clones Cyclone
Posted: 09 Aug 2023, 06:46
by Ezzard
Thanks for the insight. Barry was the biggest name in UK sport at the time. Everyone loved him.
It could be that he would never have reached the heights of the Laporte, Pedroza and Taylor fights again no matter what. A fantastic fighter though in his prime.
Re: What if #2 The Clones Cyclone
Posted: 10 Aug 2023, 21:06
by Esquire
This fight was fought in the heat of the desert in Nevada. Cruz was outstanding that night, but he does not win this fight in Europe. Barry was far and away the better fighter.