BoxRec

We all know about the tragic farce that was the actual Ali/Holmes fight, but how early do you think Holmes would have been able to beat Ali? I reckon 1976/77. Any other opinions?

revporl wrote:We all know about the tragic farce that was the actual Ali/Holmes fight, but how early do you think Holmes would have been able to beat Ali? I reckon 1976/77. Any other opinions?

I think Cassius Clay was a more skilled ,faster boxer,than Ali.However Ali,was a more determined ,tougher gutsier fighter.While Holmes was good and never got the credit that I think he deserved I don't think that he could beat either Clay,nor a younger Ali.Holmes couldn't handle them,& I think either version would win a decision,over any version of Holmes.
zuru

zuru wrote:I think Cassius Clay was a more skilled ,faster boxer,than Ali.However Ali,was a more determined ,tougher gutsier fighter
zuru

Clay changed his name to Ali after beating Liston in 1964, the change to a slower style where he took more shots occured after he returned from his layoff six years later in 1970. When he was Cassius Clay he still had most of his great performances ahead of him.

revporl wrote:We all know about the tragic farce that was the actual Ali/Holmes fight, but how early do you think Holmes would have been able to beat Ali? I reckon 1976/77. Any other opinions?

I agree around 1977 would have been the watershed so to speak. Although at that stage of his career a major factor would have been what shape Ali turned up in.

If Ali turned up in the shape he was against Jimmy Young the younger, fresher Holmes may have outpointed him.

elmersalsa wrote:Holmes said in his autobiography that he used to whip Ali in sparring when he was coming up as a contender. He said that he used to get the better of the exchanges and knew how to fight him if Ali would have give him a title shot. That was around 1976 or 77

Yes, I've read that to. However many fighters got the better of Ali in sparring sessions in training camp. Ali often didn't show his true form untill fight time.

elmersalsa wrote:Holmes said in his autobiography that he used to whip Ali in sparring when he was coming up as a contender. He said that he used to get the better of the exchanges and knew how to fight him if Ali would have give him a title shot. That was around 1976 or 77

I would have to see it to believe it.

Muhammad Ali used to let his sparring partners bang on his body alot, he would go to war in the gym which is what made him such a tough fighter come fight time. Whether Holmes got the better of Ali or not in the gym is irrelevant because that isn't the fight, nor is there anything at stake. Sparring for Ali was simply a task he had to get out of the way while preparing for his upcoming bout.

I don't think Holmes could have beaten a prime Ali... lets look at a common opponent in Ken Norton, sure Ali had alot of trouble with him but that was when Norton was young and fresh, and Ali beat him two times. Holmes vs Norton was a different story, Larry had his hands full with a past his prime over the hill Ken Norton and was out on his feet in the fifteenth round.

Sure styles make fights but if you are dumb enough to believe Larry Holmes beats a prime Ali then you would follow that formula and see that Ali was better.

Dus.

What about a prime Holmes against a prime Tyson?

J-C wrote:

zuru wrote:I think Cassius Clay was a more skilled ,faster boxer,than Ali.However Ali,was a more determined ,tougher gutsier fighter
zuru

Clay changed his name to Ali after beating Liston in 1964, the change to a slower style where he took more shots occured after he returned from his layoff six years later in 1970. When he was Cassius Clay he still had most of his great performances ahead of him.

J-C,
I am aware that Clay & Ali,are one and the same.It's just that's how I refer to him,because he fought differently when he was younger as Clay,than he did as the older,tougher Ali.
zuru