BoxRec

Posted: **08 Oct 2023, 13:10**

As per the title, where would you rank Fury in the ATG HW rankings if he beat those three? I know Zhang isn't really tested but he's up there in the rankings.

Posted: **08 Oct 2023, 13:13**

Top 10.

There aren't many heavyweight champs who had a long time at the top.

Posted: **08 Oct 2023, 13:21**

If he cleans out his division, and retires undefeated he'd have a strong case for being All time Top 3. If he winds up reigning as Champion for as long as 10 years, and makes over a Dozen title defenses while beating the key names you mentioned. He'd honestly have a case for being all time #1.

It would take a truly amazing level of accomplishment to put him firmly ahead of Ali and Louis, but if he's even able to get into that conversation he's done something that will never be matched in our lifetimes I'd imagine.

Posted: **08 Oct 2023, 13:46**

Interesting question. I think it's only really possible to evaluate them a while after they have retired. Lewis was often derided during his career, it has aged well over time though. I went for 6 - 10.

Posted: **08 Oct 2023, 19:58**

Oh a bit lower imo. A bit of a blot on his career imo was he never rematched Klitschko and the first fight, whilst shit, was very close despite what frank has said after.

Also yes it’s a long reign but it’s been so inactive and sorry why the mass love the zhang. Let’s see zhang against AJ before hailing him as some kind of monster who is the last of the threats. Whether you think he best Hirgovic or not, it was very close.

I’d have to have him similar to Klitschko, Klitschko might have been in a shit era, but he was much much greater longevity and also cleaned up his era. I don’t think Klitschko would be in my top 10.,

Posted: **08 Oct 2023, 21:18**

stujones wrote: ↑08 Oct 2023, 19:58 sorry why the mass love the zhang. Let’s see zhang against AJ before hailing him as some kind of monster who is the last of the threats. Whether you think he best Hirgovic or not, it was very close.

I only picked Zhang as he’s up high in the rankings and Fury hasn’t fought him yet, I think Joyce flattered ZZ

Posted: **09 Oct 2023, 02:20**

Outside the top 10.

If he beats Zhang and Usyk, his record will show just 1 win against a proven fighter.

Zhang beat Joe Joyce ..
Wilder hasn't beat anyone of note.

Added to that; aside from the Wilder brawls. Fury is not an exciting fighter .. his fighting doesn't capture the public's attention like John L, Dempsey, Louis, Marciano, Liston, Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Tyson, Holyfield or even Lennox Lewis

Posted: **09 Oct 2023, 06:44**

Agree, no where near the top 10. I think it's disrespectful to the great fighters of different era's to even suggest it.

Posted: **09 Oct 2023, 08:08**

Twinkle Toes wrote: ↑09 Oct 2023, 06:44 Agree, no where near the top 10. I think it's disrespectful to the great fighters of different era's to even suggest it.

So, name 10 more deserving fighters.

The heavyweight devision has only a few long reigning champs.

Posted: **09 Oct 2023, 08:21**

I'd have him top 10 no doubt, lower half. You can't do anything more than beat the best fighters of your era, and Fury's era has been considerably better than Wlad's whatever you think of it.

Posted: **09 Oct 2023, 08:44**

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑09 Oct 2023, 08:08
Twinkle Toes wrote: ↑09 Oct 2023, 06:44 Agree, no where near the top 10. I think it's disrespectful to the great fighters of different era's to even suggest it.
So, name 10 more deserving fighters.

The heavyweight devision has only a few long reigning champs.

Just holding a worlds title belt, or holding it for a long time doesn`t make an all time great in the sport .. it so much more than those two things.

Ali is typically regarded as The Greatest. But Fury would have beaten Ali 100% .. that doesn`t mean Fury takes Ali`s place at the top of the mythical ATG list.
An ATG is so much more.

Posted: **09 Oct 2023, 09:14**

ATG great lists are always open to debate. Head to head fights are different to how you rank someone's overall achievements and any fighter can have their career nit picked at. Even Ali, generally in most peoples top 3 HWs in history had his share of stinkers and controversial wins. But you can only beat who is around at the time.

Posted: **09 Oct 2023, 09:31**

I think one year on and it will still be 1 fight with Klitschko and 3 with Wilder. The end!

Posted: **09 Oct 2023, 09:37**

tonyevs wrote: ↑09 Oct 2023, 08:44
jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑09 Oct 2023, 08:08
Twinkle Toes wrote: ↑09 Oct 2023, 06:44 Agree, no where near the top 10. I think it's disrespectful to the great fighters of different era's to even suggest it.
So, name 10 more deserving fighters.

The heavyweight devision has only a few long reigning champs.
Just holding a worlds title belt, or holding it for a long time doesn`t make an all time great in the sport .. it so much more than those two things.

Ali is typically regarded as The Greatest. But Fury would have beaten Ali 100% .. that doesn`t mean Fury takes Ali`s place at the top of the mythical ATG list.
An ATG is so much more.

I'd say Holmes or Louis myself, but there's an argument to be made for all of them.

I still think it hard to pick 10 fighters above Fury, if we're talking about as champions, or being regarded the best.

Obviously, if he pisses away the end of his career in exhibitions, or loses to Usyk, then there's no chance he makes the list.

Posted: **09 Oct 2023, 09:38**

Flump wrote: ↑09 Oct 2023, 08:21 I'd have him top 10 no doubt, lower half. You can't do anything more than beat the best fighters of your era, and Fury's era has been considerably better than Wlad's whatever you think of it.

Not sure I agree at all, this era is gack.

Posted: **09 Oct 2023, 09:42**

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑09 Oct 2023, 09:38 Not sure I agree at all, this era is gack.

This.

Posted: **09 Oct 2023, 09:42**

He definitely wouldn’t have thrived in the Holyfield/Bowe/Lewis era in my opinion. Not really a chance of that! If you take the Klitschko fight as his absolute peak, he looked woefully under-powered and only just edged the ageing Klitschko out of it. Quite dismissive of Ali up thread, but in a 15 rounder I wouldn’t bet my house on Fury not getting a bit exposed there too.

Posted: **09 Oct 2023, 09:51**

polecateddy wrote: ↑09 Oct 2023, 09:42 He definitely wouldn’t have thrived in the Holyfield/Bowe/Lewis era in my opinion. Not really a chance of that! If you take the Klitschko fight as his absolute peak, he looked woefully under-powered and only just edged the ageing Klitschko out of it. Quite dismissive of Ali up thread, but in a 15 rounder I wouldn’t bet my house on Fury not getting a bit exposed there too.

I do think that Fury has changed his style considerably since leaving Peter, who was an extremely risk averse coach. He's hitting a lot harder since moving on, mainly because he is actually sitting down on his punches now.

I can see Holyfield giving him absolute fits, fast, strong, with enough power to keep Fury honest, combination punching, really good inside work, and absolutely rock solid in terms of chin and temperament.

Bowe, - interesting one - Bowe was used to being the bigger man, I'm not sure he'd have enjoyed fighting Fury, and he certainly wasn't keen on Lewis.

Ali's speed would probably have given Fury fits, ali didn't rely on power, but the reach differential would have been interesting.

I dare say Ali was smart enough to find a way around that problem, but he would have had to adapt his usual style with a 7 inch reach disadtantage.

Posted: **09 Oct 2023, 10:07**

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑09 Oct 2023, 09:51
polecateddy wrote: ↑09 Oct 2023, 09:42 He definitely wouldn’t have thrived in the Holyfield/Bowe/Lewis era in my opinion. Not really a chance of that! If you take the Klitschko fight as his absolute peak, he looked woefully under-powered and only just edged the ageing Klitschko out of it. Quite dismissive of Ali up thread, but in a 15 rounder I wouldn’t bet my house on Fury not getting a bit exposed there too.
I dare say Ali was smart enough to find a way around that problem, but he would have had to adapt his usual style with a 7 inch reach disadtantage.

Ali was invariably the bigger and/or heavier man in most of his fights, or pretty much the same size as his opponent which when you consider Ali would be seen as being small today shows how big these fighters have got. Size does play a part at HW, Joyce walked through lots of fighters but as soon as he faced soneone bigger and just as strong he struggled.

Posted: **09 Oct 2023, 10:09**

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑09 Oct 2023, 09:38
Flump wrote: ↑09 Oct 2023, 08:21 I'd have him top 10 no doubt, lower half. You can't do anything more than beat the best fighters of your era, and Fury's era has been considerably better than Wlad's whatever you think of it.
Not sure I agree at all, this era is gack.

Not saying its great, but go back 10/ 15 years, that was the worst era for heavyweights in my time watching boxing that's for sure. Just awful.

Posted: **09 Oct 2023, 10:09**

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑09 Oct 2023, 09:51
polecateddy wrote: ↑09 Oct 2023, 09:42 He definitely wouldn’t have thrived in the Holyfield/Bowe/Lewis era in my opinion. Not really a chance of that! If you take the Klitschko fight as his absolute peak, he looked woefully under-powered and only just edged the ageing Klitschko out of it. Quite dismissive of Ali up thread, but in a 15 rounder I wouldn’t bet my house on Fury not getting a bit exposed there too.
I do think that Fury has changed his style considerably since leaving Peter, who was an extremely risk averse coach. He's hitting a lot harder since moving on, mainly because he is actually sitting down on his punches now.

I can see Holyfield giving him absolute fits, fast, strong, with enough power to keep Fury honest, combination punching, really good inside work, and absolutely rock solid in terms of chin and temperament.

Bowe, - interesting one - Bowe was used to being the bigger man, I'm not sure he'd have enjoyed fighting Fury, and he certainly wasn't keen on Lewis.

Ali's speed would probably have given Fury fits, ali didn't rely on power, but the reach differential would have been interesting.

I dare say Ali was smart enough to find a way around that problem, but he would have had to adapt his usual style with a 7 inch reach disadtantage.

Fury’s really been tagged by smaller fighters a few times now. But that aside, I think it’s very easy to underestimate Bowe, but he was incredibly well schooled by Eddie Futch, and rather brilliant at exposing fighters who had missing ingredients. Larry Donald was lauded for having a brilliant jab for instance, and then lost every round against Bowe. In my mind Fury is a fighter who is quite flattered by being a good fighter in a weak era. We’ll never get to see him ever in the ring with real talent at this point, so it’s all really a moot point!

Posted: **09 Oct 2023, 10:14**

Controversial wrote: ↑09 Oct 2023, 10:07
jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑09 Oct 2023, 09:51
polecateddy wrote: ↑09 Oct 2023, 09:42 He definitely wouldn’t have thrived in the Holyfield/Bowe/Lewis era in my opinion. Not really a chance of that! If you take the Klitschko fight as his absolute peak, he looked woefully under-powered and only just edged the ageing Klitschko out of it. Quite dismissive of Ali up thread, but in a 15 rounder I wouldn’t bet my house on Fury not getting a bit exposed there too.
I dare say Ali was smart enough to find a way around that problem, but he would have had to adapt his usual style with a 7 inch reach disadtantage.
Ali was invariably the bigger and/or heavier man in most of his fights, or pretty much the same size as his opponent which when you consider Ali would be seen as being small today shows how big these fighters have got. Size does play a part at HW, Joyce walked through lots of fighters but as soon as he faced soneone bigger and just as strong he struggled.

Yes indeed, size does matter, however Ali was blessed with almost supernatural speed for a man of his size, he would have made Fury look pretty clumsy and slow at times.

It would have been interesting, that's for sure.

Posted: **09 Oct 2023, 10:20**

It’s interesting to suggest that the Klitschko fight wasn’t Fury’s absolute peak. I think there must be some danger in saying it was Wilder 2, as (a) we can’t really say even now whether the American was again lucky to be thriving in this weak era. I kind of think that at some point every one’s going to start stopping the guy! And (b) the ‘I’m big and I’m a puncher now’ style that seemed to work in Wilder 2, would probably have got him second place in a shoot-out against Tyson, Bowe and Lewis.

Posted: **09 Oct 2023, 10:59**

Fury is a lot more adaptable than most HWs in history, he can switch hit and change gameplans and has size, weight and an unorthodox style which makes fighting him hard. Like a lot of fighters I think he turns it on when needed but can look ordinary if the motivation isn’t there. I think he’s give most fighters in history a hard night but Lennox Lewis for me I would favour against pretty much anyone.

Posted: **09 Oct 2023, 11:01**

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑09 Oct 2023, 09:37
tonyevs wrote: ↑09 Oct 2023, 08:44
jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑09 Oct 2023, 08:08

So, name 10 more deserving fighters.

The heavyweight devision has only a few long reigning champs.
Just holding a worlds title belt, or holding it for a long time doesn`t make an all time great in the sport .. it so much more than those two things.

Ali is typically regarded as The Greatest. But Fury would have beaten Ali 100% .. that doesn`t mean Fury takes Ali`s place at the top of the mythical ATG list.
An ATG is so much more.

I still think it hard to pick 10 fighters above Fury, if we're talking about as champions, or being regarded the best.

In my opinion it's quite easy to name 10 fighters above Tyson Fury in the ATG list.
Of course the ATG list is subjective. But these all made a bigger impact than what Tyson Fury has.

John L, Dempsey, Louis, Marciano, Liston, Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Tyson, Holyfield or even Lennox Lewis.

So whilst Tyson Fury has benefitted from being one of the best of a very bad bunch - he also loses out as boxing loses its appeal to the masses as it once did yesteryear that added to the ATG inclusion.

BoxRec

Where would you rank Tyson Fury if he beats Usyk, AJ and Zhang then retires undefeated?

Where would you rank Tyson Fury if he beats Usyk, AJ and Zhang then retires undefeated?

Re: Where would you rank Tyson Fury if he beats Usyk, AJ and Zhang then retires undefeated?

Re: Where would you rank Tyson Fury if he beats Usyk, AJ and Zhang then retires undefeated?

Re: Where would you rank Tyson Fury if he beats Usyk, AJ and Zhang then retires undefeated?

Re: Where would you rank Tyson Fury if he beats Usyk, AJ and Zhang then retires undefeated?

Re: Where would you rank Tyson Fury if he beats Usyk, AJ and Zhang then retires undefeated?

Re: Where would you rank Tyson Fury if he beats Usyk, AJ and Zhang then retires undefeated?

Re: Where would you rank Tyson Fury if he beats Usyk, AJ and Zhang then retires undefeated?

Re: Where would you rank Tyson Fury if he beats Usyk, AJ and Zhang then retires undefeated?

Re: Where would you rank Tyson Fury if he beats Usyk, AJ and Zhang then retires undefeated?

Re: Where would you rank Tyson Fury if he beats Usyk, AJ and Zhang then retires undefeated?

Re: Where would you rank Tyson Fury if he beats Usyk, AJ and Zhang then retires undefeated?

Re: Where would you rank Tyson Fury if he beats Usyk, AJ and Zhang then retires undefeated?

Re: Where would you rank Tyson Fury if he beats Usyk, AJ and Zhang then retires undefeated?

Re: Where would you rank Tyson Fury if he beats Usyk, AJ and Zhang then retires undefeated?

Re: Where would you rank Tyson Fury if he beats Usyk, AJ and Zhang then retires undefeated?

Re: Where would you rank Tyson Fury if he beats Usyk, AJ and Zhang then retires undefeated?

Re: Where would you rank Tyson Fury if he beats Usyk, AJ and Zhang then retires undefeated?

Re: Where would you rank Tyson Fury if he beats Usyk, AJ and Zhang then retires undefeated?

Re: Where would you rank Tyson Fury if he beats Usyk, AJ and Zhang then retires undefeated?

Re: Where would you rank Tyson Fury if he beats Usyk, AJ and Zhang then retires undefeated?

Re: Where would you rank Tyson Fury if he beats Usyk, AJ and Zhang then retires undefeated?

Re: Where would you rank Tyson Fury if he beats Usyk, AJ and Zhang then retires undefeated?

Re: Where would you rank Tyson Fury if he beats Usyk, AJ and Zhang then retires undefeated?

Re: Where would you rank Tyson Fury if he beats Usyk, AJ and Zhang then retires undefeated?