BoxRec

I know Mayweather carried McGregor but still 10 rounds is plenty, if McGregor didn't gas maybe he would've went 12, Tommy Fury struggles against Jake Paul and KSI, now we have the so called greatest heavyweight on the planet arguably lose to a debutant


Every time we get lumbered with one of these gimmicks we all assume it'll be a mismatch and it never is, do we need to reevaluate things?

I think Mayweather could have stopped McGregor very early if he wanted. That was a mismatch.

Cus the other guys can’t actually box.

They just throwing shots.

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑05 Nov 2023, 06:07 Cus the other guys can’t actually box.

They just throwing shots.

Exactly so why aren't getting put to the sword?

Frostieballs wrote: ↑05 Nov 2023, 05:47 I think Mayweather could have stopped McGregor very early if he wanted. That was a mismatch.

Yeh me too but was McGregor any worse than Berto? Mayweather could've stopped a few more opponents if he tried, he was nearly always a cut above, he carried a fair few of his opponents but why can't someone just ice their overmatched opponent? It's getting out of hand, I'm in danger of thinking the gap maybe ain't all that

Dom Ingle did a talk on this. Said that boxers should prepare by sparring none boxers.

It's a bit like batting in cricket. You get used to some top bowlers slinging the ball at the wickets. Then some muppet bowls and your timing is all out.

Mayweather could have got a first round ko if he'd tried but prefers to carry people. Tyson Fury was underprepared and just isn't that good anyway, and Tommy Fury is basically a 'crossover' himself rather than a real pro boxer.

So all in all, 3 very poor choices to represent boxing, 2 of whom were semi-retired. Imagine a crossover against a real killer like prime Golovkin or Inoue, would be a completely different story.

Mayweather was one of the most skilled boxers of his generation and he clearly carried McGregor. McGregor never had the skill, punch or strength to bother Mayweather .. so Mayweather could finish it whenever he wanted to.

Despite the hype, Fury is not the great boxer the casuals think he is, so the debutant Ngannou was able to put punches on him unlike McGregor was with Mayweather. When Fury had a guy stronger than him that he couldn't lean all over, and a 19st guy who could hit hard enough to hurt him we seen all of Fury's limitations.

Boxerbeetle wrote: ↑05 Nov 2023, 07:04 Mayweather could have got a first round ko if he'd tried but prefers to carry people. Tyson Fury was underprepared and just isn't that good anyway, and Tommy Fury is basically a 'crossover' himself rather than a real pro boxer.

So all in all, 3 very poor choices to represent boxing, 2 of whom were semi-retired. Imagine a crossover against a real killer like prime Golovkin or Inoue, would be a completely different story.

Agree regarding Golovkin and Inoue but Fury being under prepared is a cop out, he shouldn't need a camp at all to beat a debutant surely, no less a 12 week one. Fair enough Mayweather being semi retired and Tommy being a novice but all we heard in the build ups that they were all mismatches and these guys wouldn't win an area title, hasn't been like that so far

tonyevs wrote: ↑05 Nov 2023, 07:06 Mayweather was one of the most skilled boxers of his generation and he clearly carried McGregor. McGregor never had the skill, punch or strength to bother Mayweather .. so Mayweather could finish it whenever he wanted to.

Despite the hype, Fury is not the great boxer the casuals think he is, so the debutant Ngannou was able to put punches on him unlike McGregor was with Mayweather. When Fury had a guy stronger than him that he couldn't lean all over, and a 19st guy who could hit hard enough to hurt him we seen all of Fury's limitations.

How come it took a debutant to expose him then? I can't get my head around it

Ezzard wrote: ↑05 Nov 2023, 06:53 Dom Ingle did a talk on this. Said that boxers should prepare by sparring none boxers.

It's a bit like batting in cricket. You get used to some top bowlers slinging the ball at the wickets. Then some muppet bowls and your timing is all out.

thats a great analogy that

handsofstone wrote: ↑05 Nov 2023, 07:12
How come it took a debutant to expose him then? I can't get my head around it

Maybe Fury is shot to bits, it does happen overnight.

Not sure putting Tommy up there as anything other than a pro novice is much of an argument. He struggled with the youtubers because that's his level.

Ezzard wrote: ↑05 Nov 2023, 06:53 Dom Ingle did a talk on this. Said that boxers should prepare by sparring none boxers.

It's a bit like batting in cricket. You get used to some top bowlers slinging the ball at the wickets. Then some muppet bowls and your timing is all out.

Yh someone like KSI, he can’t box. He just swings.

A boxer will always win a boxing match. But a swinger.. you don’t know how they are gonna go. Gotta be careful not to get clipped.

I think for the most part they can. FMJ clearly carried his opponent, Tommy Fury just isn't a decent level boxer and Tyson Fury clearly underestimated his opponent.

I also wonder if there's a bit of something else. I remember when I used to play football, I'd often have a banging game on a Saturday (taken seriously at a reasonable level) and struggle on a Sunday (more fun, pub team level), and my Grandad always used to say things like "you can't sell a dummy to a mug", essentially meaning, the better the opponent, the more likely they'd be to fall for the tricks and traps as they'd see them....... the lesser opponent wouldn't and you'd play smart and come a cropper.

Maybe another term for it, is that lesser opponents maybe drag you down to their level?

Twinkle Toes wrote: ↑05 Nov 2023, 07:54

handsofstone wrote: ↑05 Nov 2023, 07:12
How come it took a debutant to expose him then? I can't get my head around it

Maybe Fury is shot to bits, it does happen overnight.

Not sure putting Tommy up there as anything other than a pro novice is much of an argument. He struggled with the youtubers because that's his level.

Yeh but like the Fury never trained narrative, even if he is shot at the top level, shouldn't he still be knocking out 37 year old debutants coming off surgery and 2 years out??

As for Tommy I know his ceiling is low but shouldn't amateur fighters still be beating YouTubers? Jake Paul I can accept because the levels even on paper weren't there much, I liked that fight for both men but KSI, surely Tommy's sparring with better men


As I say I get Mayweather carried McGregor and was semi retired, I get Tommy isn't very good and I get Fury underestimated Ngannou but still surely they should all be winning more conclusively, as soon as Ngannou dropped Fury, Tyson should've woken up, instead he boxed terrified, throwing them grabbing for dear life it was embarrassing

It's a very interesting topic.

Did Mayweather carry him? Or did he do what he always did and play the percentages? He didn't want to risk any kind of Fury-like indignity. So he did the sensible thing and waited and waited...

I don't know. They're all just theories.

The other issue is...

Heavyweight boxing is a different sport. Even an unskilled 270 lb solid muscle guy can crack. So the difference between a pro champ and an unskilled crossover is far less, the bigger you go.

Size is also a factor. Fury's opponents are used to facing this giant man. FN would not have seen him that way. At the face-off it looked like FN could have picked Fury up, folded him in the middle and tucked him in to his wallet.

vidal wrote: ↑05 Nov 2023, 08:52 I think for the most part they can. FMJ clearly carried his opponent, Tommy Fury just isn't a decent level boxer and Tyson Fury clearly underestimated his opponent.

I also wonder if there's a bit of something else. I remember when I used to play football, I'd often have a banging game on a Saturday (taken seriously at a reasonable level) and struggle on a Sunday (more fun, pub team level), and my Grandad always used to say things like "you can't sell a dummy to a mug", essentially meaning, the better the opponent, the more likely they'd be to fall for the tricks and traps as they'd see them....... the lesser opponent wouldn't and you'd play smart and come a cropper.

Maybe another term for it, is that lesser opponents maybe drag you down to their level?

Great wisdom.

FN did not care about any of Fury's feints. They had no impact upon him.

We've been waiting for a contender to walk through the feints. But none had.

handsofstone wrote: ↑05 Nov 2023, 06:49

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑05 Nov 2023, 06:07 Cus the other guys can’t actually box.

They just throwing shots.

Exactly so why aren't getting put to the sword?

Have you ever sparred a raw novice and got caught with daft shots - its because they don't know what they are doing and they throw random shots or weird shots that don't exist or are never trained.

The boxer expects certain behaviour and the novice doesn't know or do what is expected.

Overall the trained boxer will take over, however in the meantime they might get caught with a couple of shots.

I've sparred against many willing first timers, often they have done a bit of other contact sports, but obv not at UFC level.

Anyway most were willing, looking for the big swing, usually quite a bit bigger than me and the stiff jab was the solution to everything.

Suddenly the big swings stopped when they were hitting fresh air only to receive a stiff jab for their trouble.

I guess that UFC fighters are levels above a genuine first timer.

However I still can't believe that Fury would have trouble against the big African.

I would have put my mortgage on Fury playing with him even after rolling out of bed with a big hangover from the night before.

Mayweather decided to let McGregor go to ten.

Tommy Fury is very low level.

Fq knows what Tyson Fury problem was. I can’t stand him but he shouldn’t really have had a glove landed on him.

bripez wrote: ↑05 Nov 2023, 10:54

handsofstone wrote: ↑05 Nov 2023, 06:49

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑05 Nov 2023, 06:07 Cus the other guys can’t actually box.

They just throwing shots.

Exactly so why aren't getting put to the sword?

Have you ever sparred a raw novice and got caught with daft shots - its because they don't know what they are doing and they throw random shots or weird shots that don't exist or are never trained.

The boxer expects certain behaviour and the novice doesn't know or do what is expected.

Overall the trained boxer will take over, however in the meantime they might get caught with a couple of shots.

I have boxed against some good fighters where I got away with it as they were so well schooled they were quite predictable.

The wild ones were the worst.

Pete Buckley told me the worst thing about Hamed was that he was wild and unpredictable, the shots were always coming from funny angles.

Nevertheless against wild fighters the jab is always the best weapon, which is prob Fury's best shot!!

Mayweather carried him, Tommy Fury is just not that good, and Tyson is shot at 34 from the third Wilder fight and years of abusing his body.

Equally though mma fighters should be able to beat a YouTuber with no boxing experience

bripez wrote: ↑05 Nov 2023, 10:54

handsofstone wrote: ↑05 Nov 2023, 06:49

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑05 Nov 2023, 06:07 Cus the other guys can’t actually box.

They just throwing shots.

Exactly so why aren't getting put to the sword?

Have you ever sparred a raw novice and got caught with daft shots - its because they don't know what they are doing and they throw random shots or weird shots that don't exist or are never trained.

The boxer expects certain behaviour and the novice doesn't know or do what is expected.

Overall the trained boxer will take over, however in the meantime they might get caught with a couple of shots.

Its one thing getting clipped from a shot, even dropped but for a world class fighter failing to get to grips over 10 rounds baffles me

Mayweather didn't carry McGregor. Mayweather was exposed as past it when he needed to rely on a gift decision to beat Logan Paul