BoxRec

gilgamesh wrote: ↑16 Jan 2024, 02:48 I don't think their title reigns occurred at the same time, but I think Byrd was a better talent than Valuev, and would be able to outbox him comfortably.

EdwardRevolver1993 wrote: ↑16 Jan 2024, 03:38

gilgamesh wrote: ↑16 Jan 2024, 02:48 I don't think their title reigns occurred at the same time, but I think Byrd was a better talent than Valuev, and would be able to outbox him comfortably.

There was a small window where they could (in theory, if not in practice) meet each other in a unification. Valuev defeated Ruiz and won the WBA belt in Dec. 2005. Byrd would lose his IBF belt to Wladimir Klitschko in Apr.2006.

If I recall, Sauerland Event (who promoted Valuev) came as a third party to Byrd-Klitschko purse bids and they actually won them. They staged Byrd-Wlad on their card. Let's imagine that somehow an agreement occurs between Byrd and Valuev team for a unification bout and Sauerland gets to stage it, too.

Unification often takes priority over mandatory (Wlad was Byrd's mandatory). So, instead of Byrd and Wlad fighting on a Sauerland card in April 2006, Byrd and Valuev could've fought in a WBA/IBF unification.

Another interesting nuance, Don King was going thru a promotional conflict with Byrd and at the same time he started co-promoting Valuev together with Sauerlands. So, King could be interested in his new guy defeating the guy, with whom he was going thru a separation.

Joson wrote: ↑16 Jan 2024, 19:51 Byrd wins on points. He was a several leagues above Valuev in terms of talent and boxing ability.

I picture this fight unfolding much like Byrd's bout against Vitali, except that against Valuev, Byrd would win the majority of the rounds.

But it would be interesting to see the 7' tall Valuev try to keep Byrd at bay, using his long left-jab. Who knows, maybe Valuev might even surprise us.

Joson wrote: ↑16 Jan 2024, 19:58

EdwardRevolver1993 wrote: ↑16 Jan 2024, 03:38

gilgamesh wrote: ↑16 Jan 2024, 02:48 I don't think their title reigns occurred at the same time, but I think Byrd was a better talent than Valuev, and would be able to outbox him comfortably.

There was a small window where they could (in theory, if not in practice) meet each other in a unification. Valuev defeated Ruiz and won the WBA belt in Dec. 2005. Byrd would lose his IBF belt to Wladimir Klitschko in Apr.2006.

If I recall, Sauerland Event (who promoted Valuev) came as a third party to Byrd-Klitschko purse bids and they actually won them. They staged Byrd-Wlad on their card. Let's imagine that somehow an agreement occurs between Byrd and Valuev team for a unification bout and Sauerland gets to stage it, too.

Unification often takes priority over mandatory (Wlad was Byrd's mandatory). So, instead of Byrd and Wlad fighting on a Sauerland card in April 2006, Byrd and Valuev could've fought in a WBA/IBF unification.

Another interesting nuance, Don King was going thru a promotional conflict with Byrd and at the same time he started co-promoting Valuev together with Sauerlands. So, King could be interested in his new guy defeating the guy, with whom he was going thru a separation.

Interesting, but wasn't Valuev under long-term contract to Sauerland? That means he was Sauerland's meal ticket. No way they'd jeopardize that by pairing him with Byrd, who'd definitely win. That would only diminish or ruin Valuev's marketability.

Sauerland wouldn't be able to recover lost future revenue by signing Byrd to a long-term contract either. Byrd simply wasn't that popular in Europe or the US.

EdwardRevolver1993 wrote: ↑17 Jan 2024, 03:58

Joson wrote: ↑16 Jan 2024, 19:58

EdwardRevolver1993 wrote: ↑16 Jan 2024, 03:38

There was a small window where they could (in theory, if not in practice) meet each other in a unification. Valuev defeated Ruiz and won the WBA belt in Dec. 2005. Byrd would lose his IBF belt to Wladimir Klitschko in Apr.2006.

If I recall, Sauerland Event (who promoted Valuev) came as a third party to Byrd-Klitschko purse bids and they actually won them. They staged Byrd-Wlad on their card. Let's imagine that somehow an agreement occurs between Byrd and Valuev team for a unification bout and Sauerland gets to stage it, too.

Unification often takes priority over mandatory (Wlad was Byrd's mandatory). So, instead of Byrd and Wlad fighting on a Sauerland card in April 2006, Byrd and Valuev could've fought in a WBA/IBF unification.

Another interesting nuance, Don King was going thru a promotional conflict with Byrd and at the same time he started co-promoting Valuev together with Sauerlands. So, King could be interested in his new guy defeating the guy, with whom he was going thru a separation.

Interesting, but wasn't Valuev under long-term contract to Sauerland? That means he was Sauerland's meal ticket. No way they'd jeopardize that by pairing him with Byrd, who'd definitely win. That would only diminish or ruin Valuev's marketability.

Sauerland wouldn't be able to recover lost future revenue by signing Byrd to a long-term contract either. Byrd simply wasn't that popular in Europe or the US.

All good points. And yes, Valuev was tied to Sauerlands. Then, after the Ruiz fight in 2005, I guess King got options on him. And up till the end of his career, King was co-promoting Valuev alongside Sauerlands.

If I recall, King's goal was to eventually bring Valuev to States and make him popular there, too. King was the lead promoter for Valuev's sole HBO appearance against Monte Barrett. That fight took place in USA and, by Valuev's standards, it was an exciting performance. But post-Barrett, Valuev got back to Germany and never left Europe.

I don't know why they never brought him to States at least for another performance. Looking at the landscape of those years, Valuev could have enough to defeat likes of Brewster and Briggs.

Joson wrote: ↑17 Jan 2024, 09:16

EdwardRevolver1993 wrote: ↑17 Jan 2024, 03:58

Joson wrote: ↑16 Jan 2024, 19:58

Interesting, but wasn't Valuev under long-term contract to Sauerland? That means he was Sauerland's meal ticket. No way they'd jeopardize that by pairing him with Byrd, who'd definitely win. That would only diminish or ruin Valuev's marketability.

Sauerland wouldn't be able to recover lost future revenue by signing Byrd to a long-term contract either. Byrd simply wasn't that popular in Europe or the US.

All good points. And yes, Valuev was tied to Sauerlands. Then, after the Ruiz fight in 2005, I guess King got options on him. And up till the end of his career, King was co-promoting Valuev alongside Sauerlands.

If I recall, King's goal was to eventually bring Valuev to States and make him popular there, too. King was the lead promoter for Valuev's sole HBO appearance against Monte Barrett. That fight took place in USA and, by Valuev's standards, it was an exciting performance. But post-Barrett, Valuev got back to Germany and never left Europe.

I don't know why they never brought him to States at least for another performance. Looking at the landscape of those years, Valuev could have enough to defeat likes of Brewster and Briggs.

I'll admit that until 2004, I vastly underrated Valuev. When he turned pro in 1995, and up through the early 2000s, I thought Valuev was a circus act as much as fighter. I assumed he couldn't fight at all, and even possibly, he might be a fraud boxer.

His manager's plan, I figured, was to puff up Nicolai's undefeated record, whet the public's appetite with the "giant boxer" angle, then cash out with the first and only big money fight he'd ever get. Valuev would lose “KO by 1” or something.

But when Valuev stopped tough Paulo Vidoz in 2004, I realized I had been underestimating him. Even more impressive were his victories over top-25 rated foes Gerald Nobles, Attila Levin, and Cliff Etienne.

Then, in 2005, he beat Larry Donald, who was still on the cusp of the world ratings. That's when I started to regard Valuev as a legitimate world class fighter.

In my decades as a boxing fan, I never underestimated anyone as much as I did Valuev. He ultimately got my respect.

EdwardRevolver1993 wrote: ↑17 Jan 2024, 10:28

Joson wrote: ↑17 Jan 2024, 09:16

EdwardRevolver1993 wrote: ↑17 Jan 2024, 03:58

All good points. And yes, Valuev was tied to Sauerlands. Then, after the Ruiz fight in 2005, I guess King got options on him. And up till the end of his career, King was co-promoting Valuev alongside Sauerlands.

If I recall, King's goal was to eventually bring Valuev to States and make him popular there, too. King was the lead promoter for Valuev's sole HBO appearance against Monte Barrett. That fight took place in USA and, by Valuev's standards, it was an exciting performance. But post-Barrett, Valuev got back to Germany and never left Europe.

I don't know why they never brought him to States at least for another performance. Looking at the landscape of those years, Valuev could have enough to defeat likes of Brewster and Briggs.

I'll admit that until 2004, I vastly underrated Valuev. When he turned pro in 1995, and up through the early 2000s, I thought Valuev was a circus act as much as fighter. I assumed he couldn't fight at all, and even possibly, he might be a fraud boxer.

His manager's plan, I figured, was to puff up Nicolai's undefeated record, whet the public's appetite with the "giant boxer" angle, then cash out with the first and only big money fight he'd ever get. Valuev would lose “KO by 1” or something.

But when Valuev stopped tough Paulo Vidoz in 2004, I realized I had been underestimating him. Even more impressive were his victories over top-25 rated foes Gerald Nobles, Attila Levin, and Cliff Etienne.

Then, in 2005, he beat Larry Donald, who was still on the cusp of the world ratings. That's when I started to regard Valuev as a legitimate world class fighter.

In my decades as a boxing fan, I never underestimated anyone as much as I did Valuev. He ultimately got my respect.

I agree. For a man, who was literally sick (he had gigantism) Valuev appeared better than some tall US heavyweights who came to boxing from basketball and other sports. Amazingly, he could bounce on his toes fairly well. And he was, at times, capable of putting together fine combinations. He also wasn't neglecting working to the body of his opponent (even though, given his size, it wasn't all that comfortable for him).

Not to overpraise him, though. He needed judges' sympathy to get quite a few decision wins (he arguably lost to Ruiz, Donald and Holyfield). But he also had some nice wins that you've mentioned.

Joson wrote: ↑17 Jan 2024, 15:48

EdwardRevolver1993 wrote: ↑17 Jan 2024, 10:28

Joson wrote: ↑17 Jan 2024, 09:16

I'll admit that until 2004, I vastly underrated Valuev. When he turned pro in 1995, and up through the early 2000s, I thought Valuev was a circus act as much as fighter. I assumed he couldn't fight at all, and even possibly, he might be a fraud boxer.

His manager's plan, I figured, was to puff up Nicolai's undefeated record, whet the public's appetite with the "giant boxer" angle, then cash out with the first and only big money fight he'd ever get. Valuev would lose “KO by 1” or something.

But when Valuev stopped tough Paulo Vidoz in 2004, I realized I had been underestimating him. Even more impressive were his victories over top-25 rated foes Gerald Nobles, Attila Levin, and Cliff Etienne.

Then, in 2005, he beat Larry Donald, who was still on the cusp of the world ratings. That's when I started to regard Valuev as a legitimate world class fighter.

In my decades as a boxing fan, I never underestimated anyone as much as I did Valuev. He ultimately got my respect.

I agree. For a man, who was literally sick (he had gigantism) Valuev appeared better than some tall US heavyweights who came to boxing from basketball and other sports. Amazingly, he could bounce on his toes fairly well. And he was, at times, capable of putting together fine combinations. He also wasn't neglecting working to the body of his opponent (even though, given his size, it wasn't all that comfortable for him).

Not to overpraise him, though. He needed judges' sympathy to get quite a few decision wins (he arguably lost to Ruiz, Donald and Holyfield). But he also had some nice wins that you've mentioned.

I got the impression that Manny Steward respected Valuev. That's another reason why I started perceiving Valuev differently.